SOXOBAMA Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 On the bright side, this point of view means you need to watch a lot less games this year... afterall why watch something you hate? With your point of view you are happy with being mediocre, sounds a lot like what a Cubs fan would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 If people keep predicting the Sox to finish behind Kansas City, sometime in the next 50 years, they will eventually be correct. The Royals have done some great things this off season to go along with their great young stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 10:50 AM) The way this team is assemble now, we won't beat the Tigers, Blue Jays, Angels, Rangers, Yankees, Rays, A's, Red Sox, and maybe the Royals for a American League Championship. So in my opinion trade away anybody who has value except Sale to bring in many top prospects and young players, the money that we saved,we start signing top free agents at the end of 2014 and high draft picks, we will be able to compete for many years to come. I hate being a middle of the road team. But then you start a cycle of rebuilding with no real end in sight. The Astros look like a 60 win team next year (if not fewer), they've been that way for a few years now, and I don't see any end in sight for them either. This isn't about being happy with a mediocre product...of course I wish the Sox were better. But they have a pretty talented roster (and it is a lot more talented than people want to admit), they have talent coming up through the minors, and we finally have a GM who appears willing to hold on to that minor league talent to let it develop. But now people are upset that they aren't making moves...so, basically, they're going to complain no matter what. A complete and total tear down is an absolutely terrible, terrible idea. You lose immediate fans, you lose future fans, and, as mentioned, there is no guarantee as to when you come back. Beyond that, and has been mentioned by 3E8, the Sox don't have a ton of valuable and attractive pieces to deal off. There is talent, but that does not equal value. Unless you want to sell on Sale, you aren't getting elite talent in return. May as well hold on to it to attempt to compete. I think, with a little luck, this team can win the division. Oh, and the only the Sox need to do is get to the playoffs. With the talent of the rotation, they can easily win in the playoffs, especially since the playoffs are a crapshoot anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 10:59 AM) With your point of view you are happy with being mediocre, sounds a lot like what a Cubs fan would do. Cub fans are happy with a sell off. Big difference. I understand that mediocre is better than f***ing awful with no guarantee of ever being good again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 10:59 AM) The Royals have done some great things this off season to go along with their great young stars. Rinse and repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 12:59 PM) The Royals have done some great things this off season to go along with their great young stars. The Royals had 1 player in the top 50 for batter WAR. That was Alex Gordon, and he will be 29 in a few weeks. The "great young stars" you refer to are all hype until proven otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 10:59 AM) The Royals have done some great things this off season to go along with their great young stars. They won 72 games last year. The Sox won 85. Even if we assume the Sox lost 4 wins and are a .500 team, the Royals will have had to have improved by 10 wins. I don't think they've done that, and I think the Sox are better than that too. They certainly could be better and there's a lot of talent there, but I don't think they will do so, especially when they have one of the worst players in the game in Jeff Francouer playing in such an offensive driven position for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 04:40 PM) Especially years down the road when we are crippled by those contracts. I agree. Plus to go a bit further on this: why spend Grienke kind of money on aplayer to add to a strength? You sign FA's to fill holes and I don't see pitching as a hole right now. Plus I didn't see the Angels win a world series after signing Pujols. He is a great player and A-Rod at one time was a top player, but the Yankees are stuck with an outrageous contract and IMO the Angeks will be too in about 5 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 10:59 AM) The Royals have done some great things this off season to go along with their great young stars. Yeah, they are a real model franchise. I wish the Sox could be more like them. That would be really fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 10:59 AM) The Royals have done some great things this off season to go along with their great young stars. Who? And if you're talking about their next wave of elite prospects, they traded them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Also, care to guess how many Royals pitchers were amongst the top 50 for pitcher WAR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) But then you start a cycle of rebuilding with no real end in sight. The Astros look like a 60 win team next year (if not fewer), they've been that way for a few years now, and I don't see any end in sight for them either. This isn't about being happy with a mediocre product...of course I wish the Sox were better. But they have a pretty talented roster (and it is a lot more talented than people want to admit), they have talent coming up through the minors, and we finally have a GM who appears willing to hold on to that minor league talent to let it develop. But now people are upset that they aren't making moves...so, basically, they're going to complain no matter what. A complete and total tear down is an absolutely terrible, terrible idea. You lose immediate fans, you lose future fans, and, as mentioned, there is no guarantee as to when you come back. Beyond that, and has been mentioned by 3E8, the Sox don't have a ton of valuable and attractive pieces to deal off. There is talent, but that does not equal value. Unless you want to sell on Sale, you aren't getting elite talent in return. May as well hold on to it to attempt to compete. I think, with a little luck, this team can win the division. Oh, and the only the Sox need to do is get to the playoffs. With the talent of the rotation, they can easily win in the playoffs, especially since the playoffs are a crapshoot anyways. I can see your point about everything you said. However, the A's got rid of top quality players last season and made the playoffs with talented young players. I respect Rick Hahn for holding onto our top young prospects. I'd hate to see Sanchez, Walker, Hawkins, and Johnson being traded. I believe we could bring in many great prospects in return, if we traded way PK, Rios, Dunn, Crain, Alexei, Beckham, Thornton, Floyd and DeAza. Our fan base to be honest is very brutal. There should have been NO reason not to show up to the ballpark last season. We have struggle with getting people in the ballpark for many years. Edited January 11, 2013 by SOXOBAMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Baseball is a lot different than the NFL and NBA. You can't just tank it a couple of years and have all your problems solved through the draft. Players take longer to develop and contribute and the bust rate is much higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Who? And if you're talking about their next wave of elite prospects, they traded them. I'd take their 3B, SS, C, DH, CF, and LF over what we have at those positons Edited January 11, 2013 by SOXOBAMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 01:29 PM) I'd take their 3B, SS, C, 1B, CF, and LF over what we have at those positons I wouldn't, but even if I felt the same way about these players, calling them "great young stars" is a huge stretch. Also, how many of their pitchers would you take over ours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 11:29 AM) I'd take their 3B, SS, C, 1B, CF, and LF over what we have at those positons Can we wait until they all do something? Hosmer had a Beckham-esque Sophomore slump. Escobar had his first good year last year and is far from a "star". Moustakas wasn't that hot last year, unless a sub-.300 OBP is a star. I'll take the 24 year old Viciedo over the 29 year old Alex Gordon who had to take five years to figure it out. Not young either. What about Lorenzo Cain screams "better than De Aza" or "young" or "star" or anything other than "serviceable." I'll give you Salvador Perez, but he's not exactly a star either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 11:26 AM) I can see your point about everything you said. However, the A's got rid of top quality players last season and made the playoffs with talented young players. I respect Rick Hahn for holding onto our top young prospects. I'd hate to see Sanchez, Walker, Hawkins, and Johnson being traded. I believe we could bring in many great prospects in return, if we traded way PK, Rios, Dunn, Crain, Alexei, Beckham, Thornton, Floyd and DeAza. Our fan base to be honest is very brutal. There should have been NO reason not to show up to the ballpark last season. We have struggle with getting people in the ballpark for many years. The A's traded players away every offseason for the past 6 seasons. Last year was the first time they were over .500 since winning the division in 2006. One winning season out of every 6? Not exactly something to model yourself after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 12:26 PM) I believe we could bring in many great prospects in return, if we traded way PK, Rios, Dunn, Crain, Alexei, Beckham, Thornton, Floyd and DeAza. Unfortunately, we could not. Dealing a lot of players with marginal surplus value isn't equivalent to dealing one player with significant surplus value. You cannot demand the same kind of "great prospect". You mentioned the A's. They dealt Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill, and Andrew Bailey to get some of the prospects which helped them win the West. All of those players they dealt had proven themselves to be above average players over multiple seasons while entering either their first or second year of arbitration. None of the Sox players you listed as potential trade bait come close to the same value when you consider respective salaries and the aging curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) I wouldn't, but even if I felt the same way about these players, calling them "great young stars" is a huge stretch. Also, how many of their pitchers would you take over ours? I'd take Herrera over Crain, Collins over Thornton, Holland over Reed and Davis over Floyd Edited January 11, 2013 by SOXOBAMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 The A's traded players away every offseason for the past 6 seasons. Last year was the first time they were over .500 since winning the division in 2006. One winning season out of every 6? Not exactly something to model yourself after. The A's have a great future ahead of them though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 11:39 AM) I'd take Herrera over Crain, Collins over Thornton, Holland over Reed and Davis over Floyd 2 relievers and 1 5th starter. ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 11:41 AM) The A's have a great future ahead of them though Not really. If their young guys play well they won't be able to afford them and will start the cycle all over again. There really is very little chance for sustained success as long as they remain in Oakland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 11:41 AM) The A's have a great future ahead of them though Until billy beane has to pay said future and trades them away for another great future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 11:26 AM) I can see your point about everything you said. However, the A's got rid of top quality players last season and made the playoffs with talented young players. I respect Rick Hahn for holding onto our top young prospects. I'd hate to see Sanchez, Walker, Hawkins, and Johnson being traded. I believe we could bring in many great prospects in return, if we traded way PK, Rios, Dunn, Crain, Alexei, Beckham, Thornton, Floyd and DeAza. Our fan base to be honest is very brutal. There should have been NO reason not to show up to the ballpark last season. We have struggle with getting people in the ballpark for many years. That is quite literally a 1 in 100 shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 11:39 AM) I'd take Herrera over Crain, Collins over Thornton, Holland over Reed and Davis over Floyd And I'd take Sale and Quintana over pretty much their entire starting rotation. I'll take Reed, who is younger, over Holland as well, especially considering they're relievers and had almost identical stats aside from Reed having way more saves and a higher ERA while Holland had more strikeouts and walks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.