Frank and Konerko

[Bighurt52235]

Maybe for the regular season, but definitely not for the playoffs.

 

As I recall, Frank was a big choker in the postseason. He never did much. In fact, I remember him not even getting a friggin' hit in all 3 games of the 2000 ALDS against the Mariners. Not even one bloop single - NADA. Needless to say, that helped the Mariners with A-Rod, Griffey Jr., and Edgar Martinez sweep the series.

 

I'll take Konerko for the playoffs, thank you. That grand slam he hit in game 2 of the World Series was arguably the single greatest moment in the entire history of this franchise. Maybe even better than winning game 4 to end the series and jump around on the field as champions.

 

 

An 0-10 doesnt mean anything. And Griffey was a member of the Reds at the time.

[The Sir]

Frank, and it's not even close.

 

-Frank scored 100+ runs nine times. He even did it in a season where he only played 113 games. He exceeded 110 runs three times.

-Paul never scored 100 runs.

 

-Frank hit 40+ doubles twice.

-Paul never had 40+ doubles.

 

-Frank hit 40+ homeruns five times.

-Paul did it twice.

 

-Frank drove in 120+ runs four times. He broke 100 eleven times.

-Paul never did the first thing. He only did the second thing six times.

 

-Frank walked 100+ ten times. He walked 130+ times twice. Once, he actually walked twice as many times as he struck out.

-Paul never even walked ninety times. He walked 80+ times exactly once.

 

-Frank hit .300+ in nine different full seasons. Three times, he broke .347.

-Paul hit .300+ four times. He topped off at .313. If you were to list their best batting average seasons, you'd find Frank's name seven times before you'd find Paul's.

 

-Frank had an OBP of .400+ in nine different full seasons. He reached .487 once.

-Paul topped .387 only twice. Neither time did he reach .400.

 

-Frank slugged at a .600+ rate six times. Once, he slugged .729.

-Paul never came within .015 of slugging .600.

 

-Frank's OPS was 1.000+ seven times.

-Paul only reached .900+ four times. He never reached 1.000.

 

-Frank's career OPS+ was 156.

-Paul had a season OPS+ of 158 exactly one time.

 

-Frank led the league in runs once, doubles once, walks four times, batting average once, OBP four times, SLG one time and OPS four times.

-Paul once led the league in...GIDP.

 

-Frank was a Silver Slugger four times. He came in the top ten for AL MVP nine times. That, of course, included two winning efforts. One effort, where he placed fourth which is higher than Paul ever did, came at the age of 38.

-Paul never was a Silver Slugger. In AL MVP voting, he placed fifth one time. He only cracked the top ten one time beyond that.

 

On Paul's behalf, he made it to the AS game six times. Frank only did it five times. I wonder how many people care immensely about that.

 

Maybe Paul's defense is better. I don't really know. I was young when Frank was in his prime and I think I spent most of the time he was in the field in the kitchen digging around for snacks for our half of the inning. Either way, unless Frank was far more of a defensive idiot than I remember, those offensive numbers more than make up for it.

 

But what about leadership, motivation, heart, intaaaangibles??? Ok. If we were picking someone to lead a bunch of Soldiers against a heavily defended objective, I'd pick Paul. But if we're sending someone up to whack the crap out of a fastball, I'd pick Frank.

 

I'm gonna be honest. I've long felt that some of Frank's worst seasons resemble most of Paul's decent ones. Now, how do we compare this?

 

One way, I think, would be OPS. In this case, Frank's worst season is 2002 (excluding 2001, 2004 and 2005 as incomplete). His OPS in that season was .834. That beats Paul's 2003 and 2008 seasons outright. It comes within 5% of every one of Paul's seasons except for five. To put it another way, only five times out of fourteen was Paul able to exceed 105% OPS of Frank's worst season. To expound on that, Frank exceeded 105% of Paul's best OPS season six times.

 

Another way would be OPS+. In 2002, Frank's worst full season, his OPS+ was 119. Paul beats that seven times, ties it once and falls below it six times. Again, Frank's worst season in that category. Furthermore, if you put Paul's best (158 in 2010) against Frank, Frank beats him eight times. Basically, Frank outdoes Paul's best efforts one more time than Paul was able to outdo Frank's worst.

 

Lastly, let's look at something I'll call "runs involved". I'm sure it has a name and is a legitimate stack but I don't care what it is. It's simply R+RBI-HR. Frank's worst year came when he was 39 years old playing in Toronto in 2007. He was involved in 132 runs. The 39 year old man only loses to Paul nine out of fourteen times. Frank beats Paul's best season (175 in 2006) seven times. Nine times when you allow the 1994-1995 seasons to continue to their full lengths (he was at 169 in 1994 and 173 in 1995).

 

Offensively, these are two players with a small portion of overlap and much larger portions where Paul is unquestionably below Frank and Frank is unquestionably better than Paul. Higher ceiling, higher floor for Frank in every way. To be honest, compared to Frank, Paul is mostly mediocre. I think that's more due to Frank's insane dominance throughout his career than it is to any fault of Paul's.

[Soxfest]

Thomas by a wide margin.

[witesoxfan]

Timo Perez

[Jerksticks]

One's nickname is Paulie and the other's is The Big Hurt.

[SoxFan562004]

Love PK, but Frank was an absolute force, I think the steroid era might have clouded some people's judgement on how dominant Frank was in his prime. No brainer it's Frank for me.

[The Sir]

Here's another one. For Frank's full seasons with the White Sox, the team winning percentage was .525. For Paul's, it was .522.

 

Also, Paul never led the team in WAR.

 

Just sayin'.

[TheBlackSox8]

Frank, and it's not even close.

 

-Frank scored 100+ runs nine times. He even did it in a season where he only played 113 games. He exceeded 110 runs three times.

-Paul never scored 100 runs.

 

-Frank hit 40+ doubles twice.

-Paul never had 40+ doubles.

 

-Frank hit 40+ homeruns five times.

-Paul did it twice.

 

-Frank drove in 120+ runs four times. He broke 100 eleven times.

-Paul never did the first thing. He only did the second thing six times.

 

-Frank walked 100+ ten times. He walked 130+ times twice. Once, he actually walked twice as many times as he struck out.

-Paul never even walked ninety times. He walked 80+ times exactly once.

 

-Frank hit .300+ in nine different full seasons. Three times, he broke .347.

-Paul hit .300+ four times. He topped off at .313. If you were to list their best batting average seasons, you'd find Frank's name seven times before you'd find Paul's.

 

-Frank had an OBP of .400+ in nine different full seasons. He reached .487 once.

-Paul topped .387 only twice. Neither time did he reach .400.

 

-Frank slugged at a .600+ rate six times. Once, he slugged .729.

-Paul never came within .015 of slugging .600.

 

-Frank's OPS was 1.000+ seven times.

-Paul only reached .900+ four times. He never reached 1.000.

 

-Frank's career OPS+ was 156.

-Paul had a season OPS+ of 158 exactly one time.

 

-Frank led the league in runs once, doubles once, walks four times, batting average once, OBP four times, SLG one time and OPS four times.

-Paul once led the league in...GIDP.

 

-Frank was a Silver Slugger four times. He came in the top ten for AL MVP nine times. That, of course, included two winning efforts. One effort, where he placed fourth which is higher than Paul ever did, came at the age of 38.

-Paul never was a Silver Slugger. In AL MVP voting, he placed fifth one time. He only cracked the top ten one time beyond that.

 

On Paul's behalf, he made it to the AS game six times. Frank only did it five times. I wonder how many people care immensely about that.

 

Maybe Paul's defense is better. I don't really know. I was young when Frank was in his prime and I think I spent most of the time he was in the field in the kitchen digging around for snacks for our half of the inning. Either way, unless Frank was far more of a defensive idiot than I remember, those offensive numbers more than make up for it.

 

But what about leadership, motivation, heart, intaaaangibles??? Ok. If we were picking someone to lead a bunch of Soldiers against a heavily defended objective, I'd pick Paul. But if we're sending someone up to whack the crap out of a fastball, I'd pick Frank.

 

I'm gonna be honest. I've long felt that some of Frank's worst seasons resemble most of Paul's decent ones. Now, how do we compare this?

 

One way, I think, would be OPS. In this case, Frank's worst season is 2002 (excluding 2001, 2004 and 2005 as incomplete). His OPS in that season was .834. That beats Paul's 2003 and 2008 seasons outright. It comes within 5% of every one of Paul's seasons except for five. To put it another way, only five times out of fourteen was Paul able to exceed 105% OPS of Frank's worst season. To expound on that, Frank exceeded 105% of Paul's best OPS season six times.

 

Another way would be OPS+. In 2002, Frank's worst full season, his OPS+ was 119. Paul beats that seven times, ties it once and falls below it six times. Again, Frank's worst season in that category. Furthermore, if you put Paul's best (158 in 2010) against Frank, Frank beats him eight times. Basically, Frank outdoes Paul's best efforts one more time than Paul was able to outdo Frank's worst.

 

Lastly, let's look at something I'll call "runs involved". I'm sure it has a name and is a legitimate stack but I don't care what it is. It's simply R+RBI-HR. Frank's worst year came when he was 39 years old playing in Toronto in 2007. He was involved in 132 runs. The 39 year old man only loses to Paul nine out of fourteen times. Frank beats Paul's best season (175 in 2006) seven times. Nine times when you allow the 1994-1995 seasons to continue to their full lengths (he was at 169 in 1994 and 173 in 1995).

 

Offensively, these are two players with a small portion of overlap and much larger portions where Paul is unquestionably below Frank and Frank is unquestionably better than Paul. Higher ceiling, higher floor for Frank in every way. To be honest, compared to Frank, Paul is mostly mediocre. I think that's more due to Frank's insane dominance throughout his career than it is to any fault of Paul's.

Monster...Just a f***ing monster the Big Hurt was.

[Dizzy Sox]

I'd pick Frank even if you had to play him in the outfield. He was that freaking good.

[Chisoxfn]

Thomas was one of the greatest offensive players to ever play the game in his prime. Konerko isn't. Konerko is very good and may end up having a greater White Sox career then Konerko but I'm taking Frank prime any day of the week. He was amazing prior to his injuries.

[Drew]

Konerko has been an All-Star and was an ALCS MVP.

 

Frank Thomas is a first ballot Hall of Famer.

 

I've got to go with the first ballot Hall of Famer, even in spite of his frustrating injury history, his mouth, his softness and seeming lack of interest in playing in the field.

 

 

[kitekrazy]

Love PK, but Frank was an absolute force, I think the steroid era might have clouded some people's judgement on how dominant Frank was in his prime. No brainer it's Frank for me.

 

He was a great situational hitter as well. I think the steroid era also clouded Frank's judgement as well at the plate. It was all about knocking the ball out of the park. I hope in my lifetime I get to see another player like that come out of the Sox farm system.