One in Three Living in Poverty in Illinois

[caulfield12]

A safety net would be fine. What you have is social dependency.

 

 

Ah, yes, the dreaded 47%, most of whom are senior citizens who paid into Social Security and Medicare their entire lives....as well as numerous legitimately disabled people.

 

It's amazing that we're still having this debate after Clinton "mended but didn't end" welfare in the 90's. Did WIC, AFDC, food stamps, etc., suddenly stop under "W" only to be miraculously restored by Obama's socialist machine?

 

If you want to talk about "social dependency," then how to you explain the nearly universal happiness levels in countries of northern Europe (Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway or even Canada) when those countries all have higher tax rates and universal health care...certainly more "intrusive" government programs than the US???

[caulfield12]

They also ran a budget surplus in 2012, unlike Illinois, and most other states.

 

 

Then why didn't the Republicans elect Rick Perry if he could single-handedly solve all the Federal budget problems much more easily than Mr. Romney?

[EvilMonkey]

Then why didn't the Republicans elect Rick Perry if he could single-handedly solve all the Federal budget problems much more easily than Mr. Romney?

Wow, way to over-reach, infer and create a strawman that didn't exist.

[StrangeSox]

It would make them temporary labor in exchange for meager benefits. The city/state would lose skilled and experienced employees with a career in exchange for temporary labor making little money. And where is the finding for these public projects going to come from? It isn't free to run an operation.

[Reddy]

if anyone thinks Republicans care more about getting people out of poverty than Dems you are awfully mistaken.

[Jenksismyhero]

Government is a community working together through democratic means. Plenty of other countries have more robust government programs and much less economic stratification and poverty problems. You want kids to have knowledge, start with better schools and better funding for them and other educational and outreach programs.

 

No one was the subcultures that we have. Parts of the City of Chicago are third world countries. And that has nothing to do with how much the governemnt or society provides those people.

[Jenksismyhero]

Where was the Tea Party from 2001-2008 when the "fiscal cliff/debt ceiling" was really beginning to become a problem?

 

Where were those people speaking out on behalf of not increasing the military/defense budget every year?

 

If you want to talk about a truly HORRIBLE return on investment, look no further than Afghanistan and the Middle East. What do we have to show for all those trillions of dollars spent? Money that wasn't spent on Americans...is the world really a safer place?

 

Lots of policies by governments have failed, but just as many have been foreign as domestic/social programs.

 

Um, ok? What's this have to do with a failure of liberal policy in this state for decades?

[Jenksismyhero]

It would make them temporary labor in exchange for meager benefits. The city/state would lose skilled and experienced employees with a career in exchange for temporary labor making little money. And where is the finding for these public projects going to come from? It isn't free to run an operation.

 

They get paid already. It's called the house, food, school supplies, baby supplies, healthcare, etc. they pay little to nothing to get.

 

And how would the city/state lose workers? This city has a bazillion areas that need to be cleaned up. The City doesn't have the manpower or money to pay for it. Take a housing project, require they sign up for work in various city/county departments, boom, the city gets cleaned up a little. People start working all day instead of getting in trouble. They learn job skills, perhaps some eventually move onto bigger and better things.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

if anyone thinks Republicans care more about getting people out of poverty than Dems you are awfully mistaken.

 

Ugh, get out of here with this bulls***. I'm not attacking people that are liberal, i'm attacking failed policies.

[StrangeSox]

No one was the subcultures that we have. Parts of the City of Chicago are third world countries. And that has nothing to do with how much the governemnt or society provides those people.

It has a lot to do with how government and society treat those groups and how they've been treated historically. These things don't arise in a vacuum.

 

It's also not a strictly urban or racial problem, either. There's plenty of rural white poverty that isn't "third world."

 

Edited January 17, 2013 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

They get paid already. It's called the house, food, school supplies, baby supplies, healthcare, etc. they pay little to nothing to get.

 

And how would the city/state lose workers? This city has a bazillion areas that need to be cleaned up. The City doesn't have the manpower or money to pay for it. Take a housing project, require they sign up for work in various city/county departments, boom , the city gets cleaned up a little. People start working all day instead of getting in trouble. They learn job skills, perhaps some eventually move onto bigger and better things.

there would be management and program costs like transportation. What happens when it's mostly cleaned in areas where poverty is endemic? What job skills do you learn picking up trash? Who is watching the kids at this time? What about the people on food stamps or housing assistance who are working?

 

If these are jobs that previously employed people, those people are going to be displaced. Unless you expand funding for poverty programs, something else has to be cut.

[EvilMonkey]

What happens when it's mostly cleaned in areas where poverty is endemic?

Are you serious? Do you think places STAY clean?

[Jake]

Let's not forget that we had a Republican governor from 1977-2003 and the change we elected in the form of a D was more interested in selling things than running a government. I wouldn't say that these problems were completely caused by the unilateral hand of liberals.

[southsider2k5]

Let's not forget that we had a Republican governor from 1977-2003 and the change we elected in the form of a D was more interested in selling things than running a government. I wouldn't say that these problems were completely caused by the unilateral hand of liberals.

 

When it comes to Chicago is it disingenuous to blame a Republican.

[witesoxfan]

if anyone thinks Republicans care more about getting people out of poverty than Dems you are awfully mistaken.

 

I would say they care the same. They differ in methodology.

[StrangeSox]

to be totally fair neither party makes poverty a focus of their campaigns. it's all about the "middle class" which seems to include about 90% of Americans. for as awful as he was, at least John Edwards tried to make that a campaign issue in 2008.

[ptatc]

there would be management and program costs like transportation. What happens when it's mostly cleaned in areas where poverty is endemic? What job skills do you learn picking up trash? Who is watching the kids at this time? What about the people on food stamps or housing assistance who are working?

 

If these are jobs that previously employed people, those people are going to be displaced. Unless you expand funding for poverty programs, something else has to be cut.

Others instead of cleaning up will be assigned to child care duties. Any job created by this program ie. transportation will be filled by someone from this program. If they are gainfully employed they would be exempt from the work program. They are always areas that need cleaning and once you hit them all, you start over again. Chicago while not the dirtiest city I've been to is not near the top of the cleanest either.

[StrangeSox]

So we're all onboard with tax increases for all of the administrative costs of this program then? Or will this entire program be staffed, managed and executed by people who may only be temporarily unemployed and may have no relevant background or experience for the jobs you'd task them with? what happens if the person babysitting for food stamps doesn't show? how much harder is it going to be to look for full-time employment or to get training/education while you're dealing with this program?

 

What about suburban or rural poverty?

 

edit: I would totally support, in times like these, a voluntary CCC or WPA-like program. I do not support turning a safety net into mandatory labor.

Edited January 17, 2013 by StrangeSox

[Reddy]

to be totally fair neither party makes poverty a focus of their campaigns. it's all about the "middle class" which seems to include about 90% of Americans. for as awful as he was, at least John Edwards tried to make that a campaign issue in 2008.

lol which is the reason i liked him. he had the balls to do stand up for something that wasn't politically smart because it was the right thing to do.

 

ironically.... haha

[Jenksismyhero]

It has a lot to do with how government and society treat those groups and how they've been treated historically. These things don't arise in a vacuum.

 

It's also not a strictly urban or racial problem, either. There's plenty of rural white poverty that isn't "third world."

 

I agree with the second part of that statement, not the first. We provide the poor in this country with every opportunity to NOT be poor. It's up to them to utilize the assistance properly.

 

And yes, there is a lot of rural poor in this country and even this state. The difference is that those people generally stay quiet and just live their lives, whereas the poor in the City commit crime and keep other people from getting out.

[Reddy]

I agree with the second part of that statement, not the first. We provide the poor in this country with every opportunity to NOT be poor. It's up to them to utilize the assistance properly.

 

And yes, there is a lot of rural poor in this country and even this state. The difference is that those people generally stay quiet and just live their lives, whereas the poor in the City commit crime and keep other people from getting out.

 

tuition costs say hello.

[Jenksismyhero]

So we're all onboard with tax increases for all of the administrative costs of this program then? Or will this entire program be staffed, managed and executed by people who may only be temporarily unemployed and may have no relevant background or experience for the jobs you'd task them with? what happens if the person babysitting for food stamps doesn't show? how much harder is it going to be to look for full-time employment or to get training/education while you're dealing with this program?

 

What about suburban or rural poverty?

 

edit: I would totally support, in times like these, a voluntary CCC or WPA-like program. I do not support turning a safety net into mandatory labor.

 

Taxes are going up to solve the poverty problem anyway, so I would much rather it go into a system like this where we can actually see a benefit.

 

Cleaning was just one type of job I threw out as an example. People could fill potholes, work on construction projects as laborers, work in volunteer centers or day care centers etc. It would be a good opportunity for advancement with current city/state employees since they can start managing the new "volunteer" work force, and you could also create an incentive program for the "volunteers" to get full time employment. If we're going to pay these people, they might as well have a job to be paid for.

[Jenksismyhero]

tuition costs say hello.

 

It's called borrowing. All of us affluent whites know that loophole!

[Reddy]

It's called borrowing. All of us affluent whites know that loophole!

I'm sorry... really?

 

who's gonna lend you money when you're living on foods stamps?

[ptatc]

So we're all onboard with tax increases for all of the administrative costs of this program then? Or will this entire program be staffed, managed and executed by people who may only be temporarily unemployed and may have no relevant background or experience for the jobs you'd task them with? what happens if the person babysitting for food stamps doesn't show? how much harder is it going to be to look for full-time employment or to get training/education while you're dealing with this program?

 

What about suburban or rural poverty?

 

edit: I would totally support, in times like these, a voluntary CCC or WPA-like program. I do not support turning a safety net into mandatory labor.

There is nothing wrong with having people work for the money. As was stated there are many jobs they can do and will learn as they go. If someone doesn't show up, it's just like a real job, you don't get paid. Learning responsibility will be part of the process as well.