One in Three Living in Poverty in Illinois

[southsider2k5]

There is nothing wrong with having people work for the money. As was stated there are many jobs they can do and will learn as they go. If someone doesn't show up, it's just like a real job, you don't get paid. Learning responsibility will be part of the process as well.

 

Not to mention it could also be a good way to get more marketable skills.

[Reddy]

There is nothing wrong with having people work for the money. As was stated there are many jobs they can do and will learn as they go. If someone doesn't show up, it's just like a real job, you don't get paid. Learning responsibility will be part of the process as well.

 

ugh, you're acting like unemployed or underemployed people are children who need hand holding. they need to "learn responsibility".

 

for every person who takes advantage of the system there are countless others working their asses off with the odds stacked massively against them. 1/3 of Illinois doesn't become poor because they're lazy. It's because the system is simply broken.

[DukeNukeEm]

So we're all onboard with tax increases for all of the administrative costs of this program then? Or will this entire program be staffed, managed and executed by people who may only be temporarily unemployed and may have no relevant background or experience for the jobs you'd task them with? what happens if the person babysitting for food stamps doesn't show? how much harder is it going to be to look for full-time employment or to get training/education while you're dealing with this program?

 

What about suburban or rural poverty?

 

edit: I would totally support, in times like these, a voluntary CCC or WPA-like program. I do not support turning a safety net into mandatory labor.

How about this:

 

If you're employed you can get some assistance for 10 hours/week of work for the government.

If you're not employed the only way you get any assistance is by clocking 40 hours/week for the government.

 

There we go. 40 hours/week is not backbreaking (though I'm sure you'll claim it is) and 10 hours/week is a big enough nuisance where people sucking on the states' teat will try to get off of it. If you dont show, you dont get the money... simple as that.

 

I hate the idea of this plan, but considering the realities of the world I live in its about as far as I would go towards supporting welfare.

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm sorry... really?

 

who's gonna lend you money when you're living on foods stamps?

 

The government will lend you any amount of money you need so long as it goes to education. There's no application really beyond name/address.

[StrangeSox]

Taxes are going up to solve the poverty problem anyway, so I would much rather it go into a system like this where we can actually see a benefit.

 

Cleaning was just one type of job I threw out as an example. People could fill potholes, work on construction projects as laborers, work in volunteer centers or day care centers etc. It would be a good opportunity for advancement with current city/state employees since they can start managing the new "volunteer" work force, and you could also create an incentive program for the "volunteers" to get full time employment. If we're going to pay these people, they might as well have a job to be paid for.

 

People right now have actual, full-time jobs to fill potholes and work as laborers. Why would you want to replace gainfully employed people with temporary, inexperienced, constant-turnover workforce? Unless you're advocating for a huge new jobs program, which, again, I'm for.

[DukeNukeEm]

People right now have actual, full-time jobs to fill potholes and work as laborers. Why would you want to replace gainfully employed people with temporary, inexperienced, constant-turnover workforce? Unless you're advocating for a huge new jobs program, which, again, I'm for.

Yea I think bringing in 2 people working to have their basic needs met saves the taxpayer a lot of money compared to teams of 8 city workers each making $65k standing around for 8 hours trying to fix a pothole.

[Jenksismyhero]

People right now have actual, full-time jobs to fill potholes and work as laborers. Why would you want to replace gainfully employed people with temporary, inexperienced, constant-turnover workforce? Unless you're advocating for a huge new jobs program, which, again, I'm for.

 

I'm for an additional jobs program, yes. Adding to the existing workforce would not replace or take away jobs. I'm quite confident the City could find work for tens of thousands of people. There is plenty of work to go around.

[StrangeSox]

I agree with the second part of that statement, not the first. We provide the poor in this country with every opportunity to NOT be poor. It's up to them to utilize the assistance properly.

 

This country literally treated groups of people as livestock for generations and then ran an apartheid state for more than a century after that. These things have lingering, generational effects and there's still systematic governmental racism as recently as the 1980's (here, and this awful follow up)

 

Social mobility in this country is relatively low and shrinking. Jobs that used to lift people out of poverty have largely disappeared over the past several decades.

[StrangeSox]

It's called borrowing. All of us affluent whites know that loophole!

 

Affluent whites who grew up in college-educated homes and had good schools that had experience helping students navigate the maze of financial aid have advantages over people who didn't grow up in those circumstances.

[Reddy]

Yea I think bringing in 2 people working to have their basic needs met saves the taxpayer a lot of money compared to teams of 8 city workers each making $65k standing around for 8 hours trying to fix a pothole.

 

and... what are those city workers going to do? you going to make them a part of the 33% by laying them off since you've now got access to cheaper labor?

 

this plan is terrible y'all.

[StrangeSox]

There is nothing wrong with having people work for the money. As was stated there are many jobs they can do and will learn as they go. If someone doesn't show up, it's just like a real job, you don't get paid. Learning responsibility will be part of the process as well.

This assumes that people on government aid don't know responsibility and need to be taught it via menial labor programs.

[Reddy]

The government will lend you any amount of money you need so long as it goes to education. There's no application really beyond name/address.

 

hm. this is fascinating. and there really isn't a difference from loan to loan right? none of them gouge you with higher interest rates or other fine print right? every loan that's available to the public certainly doesn't try to take advantage of them in any way right?

 

get off your pedestal. you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

The government will lend you any amount of money you need so long as it goes to education. There's no application really beyond name/address.

lol

[DukeNukeEm]

and... what are those city workers going to do? you going to make them a part of the 33% by laying them off since you've now got access to cheaper labor?

 

this plan is terrible y'all.

Hell yes I would. Then they can do something halfway productive with their labor as opposed to being only marginally better than people who get free s*** from the government while doing nothing.

[StrangeSox]

Yea I think bringing in 2 people working to have their basic needs met saves the taxpayer a lot of money compared to teams of 8 city workers each making $65k standing around for 8 hours trying to fix a pothole.

 

So now you've eliminated 8 jobs that earned a living wage. Good job! Now those people get to go on public assistance, too!

[StrangeSox]

Not to mention it could also be a good way to get more marketable skills.

They can market these skills to all the employers desperate to fill empty positions!

[ptatc]

ugh, you're acting like unemployed or underemployed people are children who need hand holding. they need to "learn responsibility".

 

for every person who takes advantage of the system there are countless others working their asses off with the odds stacked massively against them. 1/3 of Illinois doesn't become poor because they're lazy. It's because the system is simply broken.

I never said they were lazy. you keep referring to that defense everytime someone tries to suggest something. You need a new defense. I was just responded to SS comments about how do you handle it if people do not show up. Having been on welfare/public aid albeit for a only a few years, I know the situation isn't the same for everyone. however, I also know that most people would rather be doing something constructive to earn money and this would be a good way to do it.

[southsider2k5]

hm. this is fascinating. and there really isn't a difference from loan to loan right? none of them gouge you with higher interest rates or other fine print right? every loan that's available to the public certainly doesn't try to take advantage of them in any way right?

 

get off your pedestal. you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Federal student loan rates are fixed.

[Reddy]

Hell yes I would. Then they can do something halfway productive with their labor as opposed to being only marginally better than people who get free s*** from the government while doing nothing.

 

and... by making them unemployed... they'll... be getting... more... free s***... from the government...

 

and from you.

 

so.

 

you're silly.

[DukeNukeEm]

So now you've eliminated 8 jobs that earned a living wage. Good job! Now those people get to go on public assistance, too!

Taxpayer subsidized living wage. If they want to actually earn it by entering a competitive environment without their ridiculous public unions they can go right ahead. Find a pothole filling business out there that'll pay you $65k a year.

 

I dont see why we all have to assume responsibility for lazy government workers and their happiness. f*** them, they chose to be public servants.

[ptatc]

This assumes that people on government aid don't know responsibility and need to be taught it via menial labor programs.

If they don't show up for work as you stated then it's obvious they do.

[southsider2k5]

They can market these skills to all the employers desperate to fill empty positions!

 

http://www.recruiter.com/i/study-finds-emp...-fill-key-jobs/

[Reddy]

Federal student loan rates are fixed.

 

hmm... i didn't realize that stafford loans could cover the ENTIRE cost of schooling. wonder why i didn't do that then... oh wait, because they don't.

[Reddy]

Taxpayer subsidized living wage. If they want to actually earn it by entering a competitive environment without their ridiculous public unions they can go right ahead. Find a pothole filling business out there that'll pay you $65k a year.

 

I dont see why we all have to assume responsibility for lazy government workers and their happiness. f*** them, they chose to be public servants.

 

Duke what do you do for a living?

[StrangeSox]

If they don't show up for work as you stated then it's obvious they do.

that original comment was more about the chain, e.g. the person assigned to watch your kid doesn't show up, what do you do? but there's plenty of legitimate reasons someone might not show up e.g. sickness, got some work that day, etc.