The Wussification of America

[DukeNukeEm]

This is basic S&D. If they were offering $50/hour (for extreme example), there would be lines of people out the door.

I went out to Williston ND in September and interviewed with Halliburton for a job that would've been essentially $50/hour type pay. They are desperate for people, and if I were unemployed I would've taken the job they offered me in a heartbeat.

[StrangeSox]

Or maybe there are people sitting on their couch, because this isn't their dream job.

 

So now you and Balta are going to argue that they are not sitting on their couches doing nothing, they are just holding out for better pay?

 

I'm going to point back to Balta's post indicating that having 3M unfilled jobs at any given time isn't an indication of widespread laziness and that it's far below where a healthy economy would be. I'm going to say that I remain skeptical that the existence of skilled-but-low-wage jobs proves that there's a significant number of people sitting on their couches who could or should take these jobs. There's training time and costs (some companies are doing a training program, but how many of the 3M jobs are offering that?), relocation, etc. If there's a failure in a particular labor market, it's not necessarily because of lazy labor.

 

To some extent, we don't want people who are temporarily unemployed rushing to take the first available job they can find--should a licensed architect rush out to fill these low-wage manufacturing jobs, or should she wait until there is a position available where she can actually utilize her skillset and experience?

[Balta1701]

Jobs that pay 50$ an hour don't have lines of people out the door...or they wouldn't be paying 50$ an hour.

And jobs that pay competitive wages for their positions don't go complaining to the newspaper about how people aren't applying for them.

[iamshack]

This is basic S&D. If they were offering $50/hour (for extreme example), there would be lines of people out the door.

Well then it just must not be as bad as you and some others think then...because last I saw, $12/hr equates to some reasonable meals and lodging at least. But I suppose it would be better to just siphon off of someone else.

[DukeNukeEm]

To some extent, we don't want people who are temporarily unemployed rushing to take the first available job they can find--should a licensed architect rush out to fill these low-wage manufacturing jobs, or should she wait until there is a position available where she can actually utilize her skillset and experience?

If she cant support herself being temporarily unemployed, or is sucking off government teat, then yea she should go be a Sandwich Artist until she gets her architect dream job. Nothing is beneath any of us, gotta do what you gotta do.

[StrangeSox]

Well then it just must not be as bad as you and some others think then...because last I saw, $12/hr equates to some reasonable meals and lodging at least. But I suppose it would be better to just siphon off of someone else.

 

That's not really relevant to whether there would be more interest in the jobs if they paid more.

 

$12/hr working 52 40-hour weeks is just under $25k/year. You're still going to be relying on public assistance to get by at that level.

[DukeNukeEm]

And jobs that pay competitive wages for their positions don't go complaining to the newspaper about how people aren't applying for them.

Nah only people who are demanding exorbitant wages and accommodations are allowed to b**** the media about how their needs aren't being fulfilled

[Y2HH]

And jobs that pay competitive wages for their positions don't go complaining to the newspaper about how people aren't applying for them.

 

That's their businesses problem then, isn't it? If they refuse to pay a competitive wage, they won't get workers, and they'll go bankrupt.

 

That's life, a two way street.

[iamshack]

I'm going to point back to Balta's post indicating that having 3M unfilled jobs at any given time isn't an indication of widespread laziness and that it's far below where a healthy economy would be. I'm going to say that I remain skeptical that the existence of skilled-but-low-wage jobs proves that there's a significant number of people sitting on their couches who could or should take these jobs. There's training time and costs (some companies are doing a training program, but how many of the 3M jobs are offering that?), relocation, etc. If there's a failure in a particular labor market, it's not necessarily because of lazy labor.

 

To some extent, we don't want people who are temporarily unemployed rushing to take the first available job they can find--should a licensed architect rush out to fill these low-wage manufacturing jobs, or should she wait until there is a position available where she can actually utilize her skillset and experience?

Oh come on, you two both need to admit when you are wrong once in awhile instead of making up this nonsense.

[StrangeSox]

If she cant support herself being temporarily unemployed, or is sucking off government teat, then yea she should go be a Sandwich Artist until she gets her architect dream job. Nothing is beneath any of us, gotta do what you gotta do.

 

It's not about being "beneath" someone, it's about the most efficient utilization of resources. Her taking that sandwich job means someone without her skill set who needs something like the SA job can't fill that position and that some of her time will be spent at this job instead of looking for more productive work.

[DukeNukeEm]

That's not really relevant to whether there would be more interest in the jobs if they paid more.

 

$12/hr working 52 40-hour weeks is just under $25k/year. You're still going to be relying on public assistance to get by at that level.

Or a second (or third) job. Even though you could survive on $25k/year pretty easily.

 

Let me guess though, single mom's cant do that? People get tired? Health and stress costs? What excuses are you going to come up with here?

[StrangeSox]

Oh come on, you two both need to admit when you are wrong once in awhile instead of making up this nonsense.

I don't think I'm wrong here and I don't think you've made your case. You gave me an article that talks about low-wage-but-skilled jobs not being filled. That's not evidence of a meaningful number of people sitting on their asses waiting for their "dream job"

[iamshack]

It's not about being "beneath" someone, it's about the most efficient utilization of resources. Her taking that sandwich job means someone without her skill set who needs something like the SA job can't fill that position and that some of her time will be spent at this job instead of looking for more productive work.

HAHA

[DukeNukeEm]

It's not about being "beneath" someone, it's about the most efficient utilization of resources. Her taking that sandwich job means someone without her skill set who needs something like the SA job can't fill that position and that some of her time will be spent at this job instead of looking for more productive work.

There is not a shortage of those types of jobs. Nor will there be.

[StrangeSox]

That's their businesses problem then, isn't it? If they refuse to pay a competitive wage, they won't get workers, and they'll go bankrupt.

 

That's life, a two way street.

 

So that's an example of wages not being set appropriately (probably because they can't pay decent wages without getting underbid by overseas competitors), not, imo, widespread ass-sitting in hopes of dream jobs.

[StrangeSox]

HAHA

 

Not having to immediately take whatever possible job you can find and being able to find something that actually matches your skills is one of the primary reasons for unemployment insurance.

[Y2HH]

Right.

 

And I hated working for 15$ a hour back in the day when I knew more about IT than half the people working at the company I worked for, who were making 45k+ a year, not to mention I had a bachelors degree on top of it...and most of them had no degree at all.

 

That's life.

[iamshack]

I don't think I'm wrong here and I don't think you've made your case. You gave me an article that talks about low-wage-but-skilled jobs not being filled. That's not evidence of a meaningful number of people sitting on their asses waiting for their "dream job"

Yeah, I understand one article about jobs unfilled in Reno doesn't make my case. It's merely anecdotal. But it proves that it does happen. I see it every day...I drive by places like convenience stores or collection agencies that are always hiring, and yet, I see all these "homeless veterans" that are like my age begging for money on the street. They clearly realize they can beg for money on the street and make more money than working at the collection agency or the convenience store.

[DukeNukeEm]

Right.

 

And I hated working for 15$ a hour back in the day when I knew more about IT than half the people working at the company I worked for, who were making 45k+ a year, not to mention I had a bachelors degree on top of it...and most of them had no degree at all.

 

That's life.

And if you couldn't man up and deal with that, or at least use it to motivate yourself to find something better in the meantime.... well that would've made you kind of a wussie, wouldn't it?

 

Its always fun with this starts to come full circle.

[StrangeSox]

Homelessness is a bad example of what we're talking about because it's tied pretty heavily to mental illness.

[iamshack]

Not having to immediately take whatever possible job you can find and being able to find something that actually matches your skills is one of the primary reasons for unemployment insurance.

See, then you and Balta cannot come in and make your "world is ending" speeches if many kids simultaneously have the luxury of having unemployment insurance or other options other than working.

[DukeNukeEm]

Homelessness is a bad example of what we're talking about because it's tied pretty heavily to mental illness.

Another burden working Americans are expected to bear on behalf of "your feelings" or "the greater good" or some other cliched bulls***.

[StrangeSox]

See, then you and Balta cannot come in and make your "world is ending" speeches if many kids simultaneously have the luxury of having unemployment insurance or other options other than working.

I don't know that "many kids" qualify for unemployment insurance. I still don't see any support for the idea that there's millions of lazy ass-sitters and all of these open positions that they could have if we successfully lecture them about responsibility, though.

[DukeNukeEm]

I don't know that "many kids" qualify for unemployment insurance. I still don't see any support for the idea that there's millions of lazy ass-sitters and all of these open positions that they could have if we successfully lecture them about responsibility, though.

A university study that shows the university degrees they sell aren't really getting people anywhere?

 

I'm not holding my breath for that data to every be collected and correlated to the real problem.

Edited January 21, 2013 by DukeNukeEm

[Y2HH]

I don't know that "many kids" qualify for unemployment insurance. I still don't see any support for the idea that there's millions of lazy ass-sitters and all of these open positions that they could have if we successfully lecture them about responsibility, though.

 

The point is, sometimes we have to accept that life is going to be hard for a temporary amount of time, and we may not like having to accept working two jobs to make ends meet, but that's life. We do it anyway.

 

OR, we don't do it and b**** about life being unfair and hard and how you coulda' been a contender.