How to slay the Tigers

[Lillian]

The single biggest reason that the Sox didn't win the division last year was that they couldn't beat the Tigers in head to head competition.

The Tigers have improved over last season, and have the same pitching staff.

The following stats (AVG. OBP SLG) reflect the 2012 performance of Sox hitters, including those added and subtracted from last year's roster

 

 

A. de Aza .224 .286 .362

Alex Rios .206 .254 .349

P Konerko .294 .329 .471

Pierzynski .267 .279 .433

D. Viciedo .260 .302 .460

A. Dunn .216 .255 .451

Ramirez .227 .250 .318

K.Youklis .115 .194 .328

Beckham .205 .340 .455

Keppinger .158 .200 .316

 

It's pretty obvious that the Sox can't hit Tiger pitching. I wonder if it's at least in part because all of Detroit's starters are right handed.

As you're probably tired of hearing me say; the Sox continue to lack a middle of the order left handed bat, .

 

I'd suggest that we all focus our speculation about roster changes on the task of acquiring another left handed bat, for the middle of the order,

preferably one who has a history of hitting Tiger pitching.

More importantly, I hope that is what R. Hahn is doing. He has stated several times, that acquiring an impact left handed bat is one of his highest priorities.

 

I still think that the Sox should be trying to trade for someone like Markakis. Here are his stats vs. the Tigers, for the last 2 years:

 

2012 .385 .448 .654

2011 .343 .385 .486

 

Here's what Kubel did in 2011, his last year in the AL: .239 .364 .391

 

It doesn't appear that he's the answer.

 

Someone, please suggest a feasible trade to acquire a "Tiger Slayer".

Edited January 20, 2013 by Lillian

[JoshPR]

At least sox killa Ryan Rayburn is gone...

[Dick Allen]

The single biggest reason that the Sox didn't win the division last year was that they couldn't beat the Tigers in head to head competition.

The Tigers have improved over last season, and have the same pitching staff.

The following stats (AVG. OBP SLG) reflect the 2012 performance of Sox hitters, including those added and subtracted from last year's roster

 

 

A. de Aza .224 .286 .362

Alex Rios .206 .254 .349

P Konerko .294 .329 .471

Pierzynski .267 .279 .433

D. Viciedo .260 .302 .460

A. Dunn .216 .255 .451

Ramirez .227 .250 .318

K.Youklis .115 .194 .328

Beckham .205 .340 .455

Keppinger .158 .200 .316

 

It's pretty obvious that the Sox can't hit Tiger pitching. I wonder if it's at least in part because all of Detroit's starters are right handed.

As you're probably tired of hearing me say; the Sox continue to lack a middle of the order left handed bat, .

 

I'd suggest that we all focus our speculation about roster changes on the task of acquiring another left handed bat, for the middle of the order,

preferably one who has a history of hitting Tiger pitching.

More importantly, I hope that is what R. Hahn is doing. He has stated several times, that acquiring an impact left handed bat is one of his highest priorities.

 

I still think that the Sox should be trying to trade for someone like Markakis. Here are his stats vs. the Tigers, for the last 2 years:

 

2012 .385 .448 .654

2011 .343 .385 .486

 

Here's what Kubel did in 2011, his last year in the AL: .239 .364 .391

 

It doesn't appear that he's the answer.

 

Someone, please suggest a feasible trade to acquire a "Tiger Slayer".

They are looking for a LH bat. I think one cheap way to start is the catcher the A's just DFA'D. Not the total answer but he appears to be a LH Tyler Flowers.

[Balta1701]

Obviously it can't just be the handedness of the batter, look at Pierzynski and De Aza, they did decent but they're not going up nearly as much as the others are going down.

 

Highly doubtful Markakis is available. By all accounts the Orioles ownership just loves him. Of course, I'm sure they'd happily give him up for Sale, but even if Viciedo for Markakis was a good swap for both teams, I doubt their ownership would allow it.

 

He's in the same mode as Brian Roberts was, where they wouldn't trade him for the longest time...except now they actually made the playoffs last year, so they have even less reason to move him.

[Lillian]

Obviously it can't just be the handedness of the batter, look at Pierzynski and De Aza, they did decent but they're not going up nearly as much as the others are going down.

 

Highly doubtful Markakis is available. By all accounts the Orioles ownership just loves him. Of course, I'm sure they'd happily give him up for Sale, but even if Viciedo for Markakis was a good swap for both teams, I doubt their ownership would allow it.

 

He's in the same mode as Brian Roberts was, where they wouldn't trade him for the longest time...except now they actually made the playoffs last year, so they have even less reason to move him.

 

I agree that it isn't merely a matter of from which side of the plate the "Tiger slayer" hits. However, wouldn't you agree that the Sox need another left handed, middle of the order hitter?

Doesn't it also make sense that he should be someone who has demonstrated success against the Tiger's right handed starters?

[Dick Allen]

I agree that it isn't merely a matter of from which side of the plate the "Tiger slayer" hits. However, wouldn't you agree that the Sox need another left handed, middle of the order hitter?

Doesn't it also make sense that he should be someone who has demonstrated success against the Tiger's right handed starters?

The problem is there aren't many guys you could really expect to own a guy like Verlander, and even if he is out there, there is no guarantee it would continue in 2013. Frank Thomas used to own Mike Mussina. It was ridiculous, something like a .600 or .700 batting average for several years. Then he went several years without being able to touch him. Then he started lighting him up again. iMO, and I totally agree the Sox are short on the left side of the plate, they can't focus on what these guys do against the Tigers specifically.

[Balta1701]

I agree that it isn't merely a matter of from which side of the plate the "Tiger slayer" hits. However, wouldn't you agree that the Sox need another left handed, middle of the order hitter?

Doesn't it also make sense that he should be someone who has demonstrated success against the Tiger's right handed starters?

If there was a person available for a tolerable price, then sure, the Sox should be looking to trade for such a person.

 

However, there is little reason to believe Markakis is available for a reasonable price. He's signed for 2 years with an expensive 3rd option, taking him on would add $32 million to the Sox payroll over the next 2 years, the Orioles made the playoffs last year, and unless there's someone I don't know about, the Orioles don't have someone behind him that would push them to move him.

 

Would you be willing to part with Sale for Markakis? I'd be stunned if they wouldn't do that. Anyone else on our roster? No idea.

[Soxfest]

At least sox killa Ryan Rayburn is gone...

Victor Martinez is back!

[3E8]

It's pretty obvious that the Sox can't hit Tiger pitching.

Quite a large conclusion to jump to working with small sample sizes.

 

Using a similarly small sample, it seems Hahn has already signed that left-handed, middle of the order, "Tiger Slayer". In 35 career games, his line against the Tigers is .329/.380/.562. A .941 OPS. And he didn't cost much more than the league minimum!

 

[Lillian]

Of course, this isn't going to be easy. However, getting a left handed hitter, and one who can hit the Tiger's starting RHP has to be the goal.

The Sox have no chance to compete with Detroit with the kind of offensive numbers they put up last year.

 

No, I wouldn't trade Sale for Markakis, but I'd consider giving up something significant to get someone of his caliber.

[Balta1701]

Of course, this isn't going to be easy. However, getting a left handed hitter, and one who can hit the Tiger's starting RHP has to be the goal.

The Sox have no chance to compete with Detroit with the kind of offensive numbers they put up last year.

 

No, I wouldn't trade Sale for Markakis, but I'd consider giving up something significant to get someone of his caliber.

I'm not sure that the White Sox have a trade chip of significant value other than Chris Sale right now.

 

The Sox can make the kind of deals that got them Youkilis and Linebrink last year...and Hawkins will rapidly be a tradeable asset who could bring back a quality player, but if we want a MLB level starter that a team isn't trying to get rid of, Sale is about our only real bait.

 

You might be able to pull something off with Viciedo + Quintana + Reed/Jones. I would probably take that if I were in the Orioles GM spot, but I'm wondering if that would get vetoed by Angelos.

[whitesox91403]

At least sox killa Ryan Rayburn is gone...

Yeah but he's going to Cleveland.

[Lillian]

Quite a large conclusion to jump to working with small sample sizes.

 

Using a similarly small sample, it seems Hahn has already signed that left-handed, middle of the order, "Tiger Slayer". In 35 career games, his line against the Tigers is .329/.380/.562. A .941 OPS. And he didn't cost much more than the league minimum!

 

 

Career numbers are not relevant. However, the last couple of seasons, provide some indication of how well a given hitter, who has played a full season vs a division rival, might be expected to perform.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Quite a large conclusion to jump to working with small sample sizes.

 

Using a similarly small sample, it seems Hahn has already signed that left-handed, middle of the order, "Tiger Slayer". In 35 career games, his line against the Tigers is .329/.380/.562. A .941 OPS. And he didn't cost much more than the league minimum!

 

 

I don't know why, but Wise reminds me of Fukudome last year. I think they caught lightning in a bottle at the end of last year. Wise is a grinder, but at 35... I just don't see him contributing much for this season. I don't understand why they wouldn't just go with Danks.

[Quin]

I don't know why, but Wise reminds me of Fukudome last year. I think they caught lightning in a bottle at the end of last year. Wise is a grinder, but at 35... I just don't see him contributing much for this season. I don't understand why they wouldn't just go with Danks.

 

I completely forgot we had Fukudome until just now.

[witesoxfan]

Career numbers are not relevant. However, the last couple of seasons, provide some indication of how well a given hitter, who has played a full season vs a division rival, might be expected to perform.

 

So Nick Markakis' numbers from 15 games the last two years are relevant, but DeWayne Wise's 35 games in his career are not?

 

Of course, the correct answer is that neither are relevant, as both are far too small a sample size with too many independant variables working against each other to be able to determine any sort of correlation between players hitting well vs certain teams. Nick Markakis would be just as likely to hit .200/.250/.300 against Detroit as he would be likely to maintain his success.

 

The correct answer is for them to just play better against Detroit, but the Tigers have good pitching, so that can be somewhat difficult. Nick Markakis isn't going to single-handedly change the Sox fortunes against the Tigers.

[witesoxfan]

I don't know why, but Wise reminds me of Fukudome last year. I think they caught lightning in a bottle at the end of last year. Wise is a grinder, but at 35... I just don't see him contributing much for this season. I don't understand why they wouldn't just go with Danks.

 

DeWayne Wise had a .700 OPS with the Sox. If that is catching lightning in a bottle, then Hahn needs to shoot a little higher on the electric totem pole, perhaps even attempting to harvest a thunderstorm or hiring Zeus as a special consultant.

 

There's virtually no harm in signing a guy for the small amount the Sox did, and Wise is a great bench player to have. There's nothing wrong with letting him be the backup outfielder while Danks continues to get regular playing time.

[Balta1701]

DeWayne Wise had a .700 OPS with the Sox. If that is catching lightning in a bottle, then Hahn needs to shoot a little higher on the electric totem pole, perhaps even attempting to harvest a thunderstorm or hiring Zeus as a special consultant.

 

There's virtually no harm in signing a guy for the small amount the Sox did, and Wise is a great bench player to have. There's nothing wrong with letting him be the backup outfielder while Danks continues to get regular playing time.

I could be wrong on this, but I believe Jordan Danks is out of minor league options.

[Chicago White Sox]

I could be wrong on this, but I believe Jordan Danks is out of minor league options.

Didn't we just add him to the 40 man roster last year? If so, I don't see how could be out of options.

[ZionrulZ]

DeWayne Wise had a .700 OPS with the Sox. If that is catching lightning in a bottle, then Hahn needs to shoot a little higher on the electric totem pole, perhaps even attempting to harvest a thunderstorm or hiring Zeus as a special consultant.

 

There's virtually no harm in signing a guy for the small amount the Sox did, and Wise is a great bench player to have. There's nothing wrong with letting him be the backup outfielder while Danks continues to get regular playing time.

DeWayne Wise sucks! I'd rather the Sox keep Jordan Danks on the team than give Wise more at-bats!

[witesoxfan]

DeWayne Wise sucks! I'd rather the Sox keep Jordan Danks on the team than give Wise more at-bats!

 

Thank you for your contributions. Unfortunately, traditional statistics strongly disagree with your assessment.

[YASNY]

I completely forgot we had Fukudome until just now.

 

Fukudome's stay on the south side was extremely forgettable.

[TomSeaverFan]

This is a great thread, but it might be expanded to include How to Slay the Tigers, Royals and Twins. Sox have had some problems in divisional games.

[witesoxfan]

This is a great thread, but it might be expanded to include How to Slay the Tigers {AND} Royals and Twins. Sox have had some problems in divisional games.

 

Sox went 14-4 against the Twins last year, and swept them twice. Won every series against them. Should be no different this year. The Twins suck.

[Balta1701]

Sox went 14-4 against the Twins last year, and swept them twice. Won every series against them. Should be no different this year. The Twins suck.

That's the real rub.

 

There's always at least 1 team in our division we just flat out refuse to win against.

 

If we could just beat the bad teams and play close to .500 ball against the good teams, we'd win this bloody division almost every year. But there's always that one team we go 5-14 against.