Healthy Eating Thread

[beautox]

Ugh... don't get me started on keto. Fruit carbs are perfectly healthy. I'll post a full response to this tonight or tomorrow when I'm at a computer.

anticipating this lively discusion and the impacts on insulin

[Reddy]

anticipating this lively discusion and the impacts on insulin

 

 

question - are you diabetic or do you have an auto-immune disease? in those cases, keto can be a viable solution

[Jake]

People with poor insulin sensitivity will see especially good results with keto compared to more balanced plans. People that have been overweight or obese may be permanently desensitized to insulin FWIW

[Reddy]

on the whole though, Jake hit it on the head when he said Keto isn't a viable long-term solution. It's not sustainable unless you HAVE to sustain it for medical reasons.

 

it's also incredibly tough to get a full range of vitamins and minerals on a ketogenic diet, because you're not getting as much fruits and veggies as someone with a more balanced diet.

[Jake]

Yeah I think it can be a successful means to lose weight. The trick is being able to stick to it while it is going on (especially difficult at first, many folks I know take fat burners to curb appetite to enable this sort of restriction) and then being able to keep your progress once you stop, because some people will simply binge once they are allowed to have carbs again.

 

I would suggest not doing it for more than a month at a time and I would suggest doing a carb "refeed" once a week.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Jake

[beautox]

No I am not diabetic; but i would venture to say the fashion that i had been eating for the last 27 years of my life was bringing me closer to being a diabetic.

 

I personally believe its completely a long term solution if you take the time to stock your pantry with the staples you need: almond flour, coconut oil, flax, low glycemic load fruits and vegitables and natural sugar substitutes. On all the research I've done(I'll gladly site sources as well) low carb eating is a great way to avoid

, get your

,

, cancer recovery and increased energy and many other benefits.

 

Let me just say I don't have a problem with good healthy carbs, avocado, jalpenos, onions, strawberries, black berries and all that other good low glycemic load natural fruits and vegetables. It is very easy on a ketogenic diet to get all the vitamins and minerals you need. Side note what would you consider a "balanced diet".

 

If people are truly active they might consider a Targeted Ketogenic Diet or Cyclic Ketogenic diet aka carb cycling, it can be great if your goal is to recomp your body. As for only sticking with it a month, thats not good advice, on average it takes 3-4 weeks for ones body to fully become keto adapted and move through the side effects that come with transitioning your body from a carb based energy source and a fat based energy source and during the first few weeks is when weight loss is the most dramatic from water and sodium stores so if stop after a brief period of time your body will find itself in a quagmire with its metabolic functions.

 

Lastly the obesity epidemic thats destroying the western world and costing all of us unforeseen expenses is a direct result of our high carb, medium protein low fat diet that was purposed by the USDA back in the eighties and the scare of cholesterol and fat being directly related to heart disease, when in reality eating a high fat diet will produce the good LDL cholesterol the light fluffy version aka pattern A. Carbs and sugar produce the bad LDL which is the tiny version thats attaches it self between cells and reeks havoc on our respective bodies.

 

Good discusion so far.

[Jake]

You can go keto in 3-4 days. I don't know what makes you think it takes so long to adapt to. That is exactly how and why cyclic keto diets work.

 

I think low carb diets and keto diets are two different things. I agree that vitamin and minerals can be had, even on a keto diet.

 

Since you're interested, I can dig up my Lyle McDonald ebooks on keto dieting for athletes/weight loss and find some way to give you those. He's considered the guru of keto dieting in the nutrition industry, even though he himself doesn't always advocate it for his clients.

 

I also agree that the low fat diet was a heinously bad recommendation, even though I'm somewhat dubious as to what its effects have been. More than low fat, more than high carb, I think the issue with Americans' health is overconsumption. Calories are simply too high. We wouldn't have to quibble about this and that thing if people could control portions and overall calorie intake. Granted, carbs would be the most "addictive" food as there is a physiological response to carbs that is much like a dependency response.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Jake

[beautox]

You can go keto in 3-4 days. I don't know what makes you think it takes so long to adapt to. That is exactly how and why cyclic keto diets work.

 

Agreed its very easy for ones body to enter ketosis in 3 days; best way to do that from my experience is the following: Don't eat anything after 6pm on day one, day two wake up and perform some weight training or cardio on an empty stomach start your diet with 0-2% of cal attributed to carbs, day three wake up and perform some weight training or cardio on an empty stomach eat 5% of your intake attributed to carbs source also here is a great article about keto adaptation, Volek and Phinney go into greater detail in their book "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living".

 

I think low carb diets and keto diets are two different things. I agree that vitamin and minerals can be had, even on a keto diet.

I would agree i consider a keto based diet 50g of carbs and less depending on the individuals tolerance to carbs. I consider low carb 100g or less. I feel this image describes it well.

 

 

Since you're interested, I can dig up my Lyle McDonald ebooks on keto dieting for athletes/weight loss and find some way to give you those. He's considered the guru of keto dieting in the nutrition industry, even though he himself doesn't always advocate it for his clients.

I agree keto isn't for everyone but I would say low carb should be and yes i would love those ebooks, thank you in advance.

 

I also agree that the low fat diet was a heinously bad recommendation, even though I'm somewhat dubious as to what its effects have been. More than low fat, more than high carb, I think the issue with Americans' health is overconsumption. Calories are simply too high. We wouldn't have to quibble about this and that thing if people could control portions and overall calorie intake. Granted, carbs would be the most "addictive" food as there is a physiological response to carbs that is much like a dependency response.

 

I can agree with that to an extent but our "overconsumption" comes from the fact that we drink and eat so much sugar that the leptin in our stomachs tell us to continue to eat instead of getting satiated. Profesor Robert Lustig goes into great detail about that in

, specifically how we are getting plenty of calories but we're nutritionally bankrupt.

[Jake]

I think we're pretty much on the same wavelength beautox. I'll look for those PDFs shortly and PM you, you should really enjoy his schemes and insights.

[beautox]

I think we're pretty much on the same wavelength beautox. I'll look for those PDFs shortly and PM you, you should really enjoy his schemes and insights.

thanks, i'm looking forward to it.

[Reddy]

heyyyy we DO all agree more or less.

 

I'm a big believer in Paleo/Primal/Mark Sisson's stuff, and I agree that 100-150 carbs a day is a great thing to shoot for, but I've always felt that going lower than that is a slippery slope. So many people take the low carb thing to the illogical extreme and turn it into NO carb or

 

Mark has still never convinced me on the IF and Keto front, and nothing I've read has either. To me, it makes much more logical sense to eat as many fruits, veggies, lean meats, fish, nuts, seeds and eggs as you want, regardless of carb intake.

 

Because the dirty little secret no one seems to understand is if you eat the above foods, it's almost impossible to get fat, and it's impossible NOT to lose weight, regardless of calorie counting.

 

[iamshack]

heyyyy we DO all agree more or less.

 

I'm a big believer in Paleo/Primal/Mark Sisson's stuff, and I agree that 100-150 carbs a day is a great thing to shoot for, but I've always felt that going lower than that is a slippery slope. So many people take the low carb thing to the illogical extreme and turn it into NO carb or

 

Mark has still never convinced me on the IF and Keto front, and nothing I've read has either. To me, it makes much more logical sense to eat as many fruits, veggies, lean meats, fish, nuts, seeds and eggs as you want, regardless of carb intake.

 

Because the dirty little secret no one seems to understand is if you eat the above foods, it's almost impossible to get fat, and it's impossible NOT to lose weight, regardless of calorie counting.

 

Agreed...use common sense and moderation and eat naturally occurring foods. It's as simple as that. I was having this same discussion with the fiancée yesterday. She wants to go on some crazy low carb, low sugar diet with all these special rules. I said if the rules add the structure you need to stick to it, by all means, follow them. But otherwise, they are just marketing ploys.

Edited July 6, 2013 by iamshack

[beautox]

heyyyy we DO all agree more or less.

 

I'm a big believer in Paleo/Primal/Mark Sisson's stuff, and I agree that 100-150 carbs a day is a great thing to shoot for, but I've always felt that going lower than that is a slippery slope. So many people take the low carb thing to the illogical extreme and turn it into NO carb or

 

Mark has still never convinced me on the IF and Keto front, and nothing I've read has either. To me, it makes much more logical sense to eat as many fruits, veggies, lean meats, fish, nuts, seeds and eggs as you want, regardless of carb intake.

 

Because the dirty little secret no one seems to understand is if you eat the above foods, it's almost impossible to get fat, and it's impossible NOT to lose weight, regardless of calorie counting.

 

I personally think once an individual is at a healthy body fat % or their weight loss goal that 100g of carbs(+/-30) is fine. I would agree that many people take low carb and ketogenic to an extreme of no carb; but having said that the body is equipped with a process to change protein into glycogen via gluconeogenesis so while its very hard not to eat carbs even healthy ones its entirely possible to cut them out of your diet and not skip a beat.

 

I think ketosis is the first order natural process our bodies developed a long time ago. The reason I say that is because after your body's stores of glycogen reserves have been used up(usually about 500g or 2000c) the body will then go to using ketones for energy. Furthermore grains and fruits were not readily available through out the course of human history and our metabolic pathways originated off of eating fat and protein with a very limited exposure to carbs. As for it being a defense mechanism the Inuit and Masai people were constantly in a state of ketosis due to their high fat diets. Lastly, "starvation mode" only takes place when the body has 5% or less body fat(“Minnesota Starvation Experiment" 1944/1945), while our ancestors were surely lean, I doubt they were that lean.

 

As for "eat as many fruits, veggies, lean meats, fish, nuts, seeds and eggs as you want" i agree to an extent, simply because when we eat those foods we actually get satiated.

[Reddy]

Ouch.

 

The fitness/workout thread got canned? What's that about??

[Steve9347]

Ouch.

 

The fitness/workout thread got canned? What's that about??

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...&start=1500

[Steve9347]

Quest Bars, baked for 5 minutes, and the smartest dessert of all-time.

[Jake]

Quest bars > all

[Y2HH]

Quest bars > all

 

Meh.

 

All of these bars, powders, drinks, and vitamins are a waste of money.

[Jake]

Meh.

 

All of these bars, powders, drinks, and vitamins are a waste of money.

 

It's just food. Nothing magic about it short of the fact the macronutrient profile is ... magical. To me, food is the worth the money

[Y2HH]

It's just food. Nothing magic about it short of the fact the macronutrient profile is ... magical. To me, food is the worth the money

 

It's food you're paying 5-10x more than what the ingredients are worth. I didn't say any of those things were bad for you, I said they were a waste of money.

[Jake]

It's food you're paying 5-10x more than what the ingredients are worth. I didn't say any of those things were bad for you, I said they were a waste of money.

 

The price of a Quest bar isn't obscene for a food with 20g protein and a ton of fiber -- in this case, customer is willing to pay more for having it come in a package as well.

 

A decently priced protein powder will be a dollar or less per serving, which brings you to the point where it is cheaper than an equivalent amount of meat...especially when whey is higher in leucine content than something like chicken and is thus more efficient in terms of how much protein it takes to maximize muscle protein synthesis.

 

Everything has its use. Can't underrate convenience in particular

[Y2HH]

The price of a Quest bar isn't obscene for a food with 20g protein and a ton of fiber -- in this case, customer is willing to pay more for having it come in a package as well.

 

A decently priced protein powder will be a dollar or less per serving, which brings you to the point where it is cheaper than an equivalent amount of meat...especially when whey is higher in leucine content than something like chicken and is thus more efficient in terms of how much protein it takes to maximize muscle protein synthesis.

 

Everything has its use. Can't underrate convenience in particular

 

I was once a very big user of supplements of this sort, powders, vitamins, bars, etc...both for convenience and because I swore they helped make a difference! This time around, after getting quite out of shape (weighed ~175lbs, biggest I've ever been), I decided no supplements. I'd simply eat better while working out the same as before, no extra protein drinks, no extra vitamins, etc., just to see if I'd see similar gains (which means noticeable gains). I got just as big just as fast while trimming down (from a 33" waist to a 31"), without the supplements. But, as I've said in previous threads, or have made mention of, these results probably wouldn't translate to another person quite as easily. But that said, for me...this is all a waste of money and isn't necessary.

 

I also have very little trust in these supplement companies.

 

Edit: Oh, and I'm down into the low 160's again, so I've trimmed 12lbs, while adding some pretty decent muscular gain.

 

I think people know when they're eating properly, and they know when they're "cheating". If you're going to cheat, just put in some extra work the next day. I think going over the deep end on any diet is a terrible idea, and some sort of moderation has to be found. I'd suggest a diet you can be happy with, that isn't so restrictive it requires you to live next too a whole foods, or that requires the use of bars and powders on a constant basis.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Y2HH

[Steve9347]

Edit: Oh, and I'm down into the low 160's again, so I've trimmed 12lbs, while adding some pretty decent muscular gain.

5'6"?

[Y2HH]

5'6"?

 

~5.75"

 

Which is actually quite hilarious and a highlight of how flawed and bad the BMI scale is...it thinks I'm "overweight" with a BMI of 25.4 (overweight category), which is laughable.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Y2HH

[chimpy2121]

I'm a little late to the party, but I started doing a low carb diet in the middle of May at 240 (I am 6'1"). I am now down to 190. It gets tough maintaining the diet while traveling for work, but it's worked and I can't complain at all. I try to stick below 30g per day. I only drink alcohol once or twice every two weeks and it's nothing but water besides that. Dropped from XXL to L and from 38s to 34s.