Healthy Eating Thread

[Reddy]

Reddy is sadly trying to discredit me with nothing more than saying "neener neener", when you can easily browse the web for information on supplements and proteins, and you'll find that actual science backs everything I've said.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_protein

http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html

 

"A complete protein source is one that provides all of the essential amino acids. You may also hear these sources called high quality proteins. Animal-based foods; for example, meat, poultry, fish, milk, eggs, and cheese are considered complete protein sources."

 

While soy, and a combination of other plant based proteins CAN be used together to form a complete protein, they cannot do so on their own, nor as easily. While this makes such an alternative possible, it's also a much more expensive proposition. Seeing as that you're not a vegan or a vegetarian, I see no reason to give you advice based on such restrictions.

 

I spent enough money on this crap over the years to know...and if I can save anyone from making that same mistake I'll do so.

 

unfortunately you didn't really read what I said. I never claimed soy to be a complete protein, but Hemp and Quinoa ARE complete proteins.

[Reddy]

It's also incredibly time consuming. I don't have time to try and combine thirty-seven different plant-based proteins to try and make them equivalent to animal proteins right now. Which is why I just said the hell with it and went with the fish and the protein shakes. I really don't eat much meat. I generally eat massive quantities of fruits and vegetables for lunch, and then try to have some kind of lean protein with grains and vegetables for dinner. I drink a protein shake after my workouts, which occur 3-5 times a week, depending on the week.

 

and if that's what works for you, then that's the best way to go. it's all about something manageable that isn't restrictive, and what that is varies from person to person.

[Y2HH]

unfortunately you didn't really read what I said. I never claimed soy to be a complete protein, but Hemp and Quinoa ARE complete proteins.

 

While true, these comparisons you're making are a bit dishonest, as you're merely speaking of its amino profile while ignoring that a full serving of Quinoa contains a mere 3 grams of protein. In contrast, a full serving of just about any animal based protein is upwards of 25 grams.

 

So yes, if you eat 8 servings of Quinoa every meal, you'll get the equivalent amount of protein, with a "complete" amino profile, as compared to simply eating one chicken breast.

[Reddy]

While true, these comparisons you're making are a bit dishonest, as you're merely speaking of its amino profile while ignoring that a full serving of Quinoa contains a mere 3 grams of protein. In contrast, a full serving of just about any animal based protein is upwards of 25 grams.

 

So yes, if you eat 8 servings of Quinoa every meal, you'll get the equivalent amount of protein, with a "complete" amino profile, as compared to simply eating one chicken breast.

i dont know what quinoa you're eating, but my quinoa actually contains 8g protein per serving. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal...d-pasta/10352/2

 

I also am of the opinion that we don't need as much protein as the government and the meat industry lobbies want us to believe.

[Y2HH]

i dont know what quinoa you're eating, but my quinoa actually contains 8g protein per serving. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal...d-pasta/10352/2

 

I also am of the opinion that we don't need as much protein as the government and the meat industry lobbies want us to believe.

 

Well, we agree about the amount of protein we need/don't need, and you won't get an argument from me there...but still, you'd need to eat 3 servings of that Quinoa every meal to equal that of one serving of meat. It's still disingenuous to pretend they're the same, pound for pound...or ounce for ounce in this case.

 

Quinoa does offer other benefits, however...including causing the poor people that farm it to have to sell it to you, so they can starve to death.

[Reddy]

Well, we agree about the amount of protein we need/don't need, and you won't get an argument from me there...but still, you'd need to eat 3 servings of that Quinoa every meal to equal that of one serving of meat. It's still disingenuous to pretend they're the same, pound for pound...or ounce for ounce in this case.

 

Quinoa does offer other benefits, however...including causing the poor people that farm it to have to sell it to you, so they can starve to death.

 

but it's clearly a strawman argument you're creating if you agree with me that we don't NEED that much protein in the first place.

 

and yes, the dead peruvians just make it taste better. I don't know what, but they do.

[Y2HH]

but it's clearly a strawman argument you're creating if you agree with me that we don't NEED that much protein in the first place.

 

and yes, the dead peruvians just make it taste better. I don't know what, but they do.

 

I don't think you need as much protein as a lot of people say, but I DO think you need more than most vegetable sources will provide through a normal diet. I'm not going to recommend someone eat 9 servings of Quinoa a day because that'd give them the necessary amount of protein they require, especially when considering their goals for muscle recovery/gain.

 

There was no strawman here. People need more protein than what you're suggested vegetable sources will provide them through regular servings, but they also don't need 1.5grams of protein per body pound, either.

[iamshack]

I don't think you need as much protein as a lot of people say, but I DO think you need more than most vegetable sources will provide through a normal diet. I'm not going to recommend someone eat 9 servings of Quinoa a day because that'd give them the necessary amount of protein they require, especially when considering their goals for muscle recovery/gain.

 

There was no strawman here. People need more protein than what you're suggested vegetable sources will provide them through regular servings, but they also don't need 1.5grams of protein per body pound, either.

So how much do you believe normal people need, Y2HH?

[Y2HH]

So how much do you believe normal people need, Y2HH?

 

That's a loaded question, as it would depend on their weight, dietary restrictions (if any), body makeup/genetics (endo/ecto/meso), and most importantly, their goals.

 

I can tell you my personal target, which is ~0.90 grams per pound over the course of the day. And even with that goal in mind, it's still probably a bit on the "too much" side of things. This works for me, and it allows me to do it without the need of protein supplements.

[iamshack]

That's a loaded question, as it would depend on their weight, dietary restrictions (if any), body makeup/genetics (endo/ecto/meso), and most importantly, their goals.

 

I can tell you my personal target, which is ~0.90 grams per pound over the course of the day. And even with that goal in mind, it's still probably a bit on the "too much" side of things. This works for me, and it allows me to do it without the need of protein supplements.

Gotcha.

 

I'm about 165 give or take a few pounds on any given day. I'm pretty toned, but would like to cut a bit more body fat and add a bit more muscle. Not a ton.

 

My entirely uneducated guess, given my normal diet, is that I probably get less than 100 grams of protein per day, considering I really don't eat much meat. Adding a protein supplement adds about 25 grams, once a day a few times a week, but even with that supplement, we're talking 100 grams or so per week.

[Reddy]

Gotcha.

 

I'm about 165 give or take a few pounds on any given day. I'm pretty toned, but would like to cut a bit more body fat and add a bit more muscle. Not a ton.

 

My entirely uneducated guess, given my normal diet, is that I probably get less than 100 grams of protein per day, considering I really don't eat much meat. Adding a protein supplement adds about 25 grams, once a day a few times a week, but even with that supplement, we're talking 100 grams or so per week.

 

the industry standard is .7-1g of protein per pound of LEAN body mass, not total weight. so it's your weight minus your body fat.

 

the USDA says we don't need more than 55g I believe daily, however I think that's low. Shooting for 100-130 sounds fine to me.

[Y2HH]

Gotcha.

 

I'm about 165 give or take a few pounds on any given day. I'm pretty toned, but would like to cut a bit more body fat and add a bit more muscle. Not a ton.

 

My entirely uneducated guess, given my normal diet, is that I probably get less than 100 grams of protein per day, considering I really don't eat much meat. Adding a protein supplement adds about 25 grams, once a day a few times a week, but even with that supplement, we're talking 100 grams or so per week.

 

I'm sorry, I incorrectly listed 0.90g as my goal, that should have read 0.60g per body pound.

 

So, by that, if you followed my exact goals, you'd be shooting for ~99 grams of protein per day.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Y2HH

[Reddy]

I'm sorry, I incorrectly listed 0.90g as my goal, that should have read 0.60g per body pound.

 

So, by that, if you followed my exact goals, you'd be shooting for ~99 grams of protein per day.

which you can easily achieve with plant based foods.

 

THAT said, I don't do it, and unless you're vegan, you shouldn't either.

[iamshack]

the industry standard is .7-1g of protein per pound of LEAN body mass, not total weight. so it's your weight minus your body fat.

 

the USDA says we don't need more than 55g I believe daily, however I think that's low. Shooting for 100-130 sounds fine to me.

Honestly, I'd have to sit down and look at protein quantities in the foods I eat and add it up.

 

Is there any protein really in fruits and vegetables? If not, I probably get more like 40-50 grams a day if I am not supplementing with a shake.

[Y2HH]

which you can easily achieve with plant based foods.

 

THAT said, I don't do it, and unless you're vegan, you shouldn't either.

 

I never said it couldn't be done, but you'd have to be eating a lot of plants in order to achieve that...or expensive plant powders. Much easier to do it with lean meat.

[Y2HH]

Honestly, I'd have to sit down and look at protein quantities in the foods I eat and add it up.

 

Is there any protein really in fruits and vegetables? If not, I probably get more like 40-50 grams a day if I am not supplementing with a shake.

 

There is in certain vegetables, but not a lot.

 

Like I said, if you wanted to get about 28grams of protein from a vegetable rich in protein (take Quinoa for example), you'd be looking at consuming 3 servings of it PER meal. That's a lot of f***ing Quinoa.

 

Here is a rather simple comparison:

 

1 .50lb (145 grams) chicken breast contains 30g of protein.

 

1 cup of Quinoa (185 grams) contains 8g of protein.

 

Do the math.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Y2HH

[iamshack]

There is in certain vegetables, but not a lot.

 

Like I said, if you wanted to get about 28grams of protein from a vegetable rich in protein (take Quinoa for example), you'd be looking at consuming 3 servings of it PER meal. That's a lot of f***ing Quinoa.

 

Meanwhile, a single .50 lb chicken breast contains 30g.

Right...and quinoa is not exactly tasty, imo. God forbid you forget to wash it first, it tastes like old socks.

 

Interesting enough, not to derail from the thread, but I think eventually we will find that our ability to use certain nutrients is based on genetics, so the basic tenet that everyone is different is probably very true. We all try and find what works best for us.

[Reddy]

There is in certain vegetables, but not a lot.

 

Like I said, if you wanted to get about 28grams of protein from a vegetable rich in protein (take Quinoa for example), you'd be looking at consuming 3 servings of it PER meal. That's a lot of f***ing Quinoa.

 

Here is a rather simple comparison:

 

1 .50lb (145 grams) chicken breast contains 30g of protein.

 

1 cup of Quinoa (185 grams) contains 8g of protein.

 

Do the math.

 

but you're ignoring the amount of protein you get from OTHER sources. for instance, say you have two chicken breasts in a day, sure that's a lot of protein, but somewhere you're coming up with 50 more grams of it in bits and pieces from your other foods - same thing with vegetarians. If I eat a couple servings (2 @ 8g) of quinoa a day, a hemp shake (20g), and then you throw in all the protein from your veggies like broccoli/kale/etc, the protein from your grains, the protein from the NUTS AND SEEDS, and you can easily make it to 60-70 grams without even trying. If you want higher, you have to be more meticulous, but a vegetarian/vegan is already willing to be meticulous so it's not an issue.

 

It's not all about quinoa. I was vegan for a month or so (trying it out) and didn't have quinoa very often and still hit my protein goals. It's easily doable.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Reddy

[Reddy]

Right...and quinoa is not exactly tasty, imo. God forbid you forget to wash it first, it tastes like old socks.

 

Interesting enough, not to derail from the thread, but I think eventually we will find that our ability to use certain nutrients is based on genetics, so the basic tenet that everyone is different is probably very true. We all try and find what works best for us.

this is potentially true, it's metabolic typing. it's also the reason some people are naturally endomorphs/ectomorphs etc. for example, based on my metabolic type, I do much better with dark meats, organ meats and fattier fish. I don't know a whole lot about it, and it's another "fad" type idea that's become popular lately, but that doesn't mean it lacks some merit.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Reddy

[iamshack]

but you're being a little ignorant of the amount of protein you get from OTHER sources. for instance, say you have two chicken breasts in a day, sure that's a lot of protein, but somewhere you're coming up with 50 more grams of it in bits and pieces from your other foods - same thing with vegetarians. If I eat a couple servings (2 @ 8g) of quinoa a day, a hemp shake (20g), and then you throw in all the protein from your veggies like broccoli/kale/etc, the protein from your grains, the protein from the NUTS AND SEEDS, and you can easily make it to 60-70 grams without even trying. If you want higher, you have to be more meticulous, but a vegetarian/vegan is already willing to be meticulous so it's not an issue.

 

It's not all about quinoa. I was vegan for a month or so (trying it out) and didn't have quinoa very often and still hit my protein goals. It's easily doable.

A hemp shake does not sound very appetizing

[Reddy]

A hemp shake does not sound very appetizing

well you mix in tastier things duh

 

I don't mind green shakes, but I know I'm in the minority there.

[Y2HH]

this is potentially true, it's metabolic typing. it's also the reason some people are naturally endomorphs/ectomorphs etc. for example, based on my metabolic type, I do much better with dark meats, organ meats and fattier fish. I don't know a whole lot about it, and it's another "fad" type idea that's become popular lately, but that doesn't mean it lacks some merit.

 

I'm a mesomorph, which is why a lot of this is so easy for me.

[iamshack]

this is potentially true, it's metabolic typing. it's also the reason some people are naturally endomorphs/ectomorphs etc. for example, based on my metabolic type, I do much better with dark meats, organ meats and fattier fish. I don't know a whole lot about it, and it's another "fad" type idea that's become popular lately, but that doesn't mean it lacks some merit.

No, I think that is probably very true, Reddy....we're finding out that everyone reacts differently to different stimuli based on tiny differences in our genetics. They are finding that certain people experience tremendous gains from training, while others experience very little. Fortunately, everyone experiences gains from exercise, so you literally cannot say that exercise is "bad" for anyone, but for some people the improvements are pretty limited, which raises the question of whether they should be doing different things, such as diet, to see larger improvements with their limited time and resources than wasting a lot of time on exercise. I think the same probably holds true with nutrition. Some people probably respond very strongly to changes in diets, while others might improve, but not nearly at the same level of magnitude.

[iamshack]

I'm a mesomorph, which is why a lot of this is so easy for me.

I'm probably a combination between ecto and meso.

[Y2HH]

No, I think that is probably very true, Reddy....we're finding out that everyone reacts differently to different stimuli based on tiny differences in our genetics. They are finding that certain people experience tremendous gains from training, while others experience very little. Fortunately, everyone experiences gains from exercise, so you literally cannot say that exercise is "bad" for anyone, but for some people the improvements are pretty limited, which raises the question of whether they should be doing different things, such as diet, to see larger improvements with their limited time and resources than wasting a lot of time on exercise. I think the same probably holds true with nutrition. Some people probably respond very strongly to changes in diets, while others might improve, but not nearly at the same level of magnitude.

 

It's also why you have to be careful when asking for advice when it comes to diet/exercise. If the average person followed my diet/workouts, odds are they wouldn't see the gains I see, and for me, they tend to come quickly/easily. There is no one diet fits all, nor is there one workout plan fits all, though a lot of people will try to sell you products that say otherwise. I've done this for a few of my friends, because I know them, but tailoring a diet and a workout for a person requires a LOT of knowledge of that specific person.