Official 2013-2014 NCAA Football Thread

[Buehrle>Wood]

No, they wouldn't be calling for his head if he was bringing in top recruiting classes. See Beckman immediately after getting Lunt. It saved his perception for...a week or two. As you yourself said at the time Lunt committed, it may save his job. Now multiply that effect by a bunch because it was a lot more than one player under Zook. That's why no one called for Zook's head then.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Buehrle>Wood

[IlliniKrush]

No, they wouldn't be calling for his head if he was bringing in top recruiting classes. See Beckman immediately after getting Lunt. It saved his perception for...a week or two. As you yourself said at the time Lunt committed, it may save his job. Now multiply that effect by a bunch because it was a lot more than one player under Zook. That's why no one called for Zook's head then.

The general feel for Beckman compared to Zook is different for most people, even taking out recruiting for a second.

 

But, I don't think Beckman is in any position to haul in top recruiting classes anyway. We're Illinois. You have to figure out something on the field first before the recruits will come. Zook was an anomaly. But also something I don't want to go back to.

[gatnom]

Honestly I've never heard of the unwritten "at least three years" rule, and if there is such a thing, i think it's pretty stupid. Again, tell me who in their right mind thinks 1-18 in conference play in two years is acceptable, even for a guy taking over a s***ty roster (which we've established isn't really THAT s***ty given the defense they had last year and the offense they had this year).

 

I've never heard of Thomas having a sketchy reputation. What's the back story there?

 

As for the bold point, I'm not anywhere near connected enough to know, but the rumor is that the main reason Thomas was hired was that he was willing to come in and clean house from the previous AD. And, he did. Whether or not that even qualifies as a sketchy reputation is somewhat up for debate.

 

With respect to the first part of your post, did you know that Barry Alvarez had a 6-16 overall record and was 2-14 in conference in his first two years? There are numerous other coaches who had similar starts to their coaching tenures. You need to give a coach time even if he is "obviously incompetent." (not your words, per se)

 

Unfortunately necessary disclaimer: I'm not saying Beckman is anywhere near Barry Alvarez in terms of coaching ability and not saying that Beckman will succeed. If anything, I think he's going to fail due to his seeming inability to consistently make good coaching hires and the overwhelming negativity surrounding him.

 

 

[IlliniKrush]

As for the bold point, I'm not anywhere near connected enough to know, but the rumor is that the main reason Thomas was hired was that he was willing to come in and clean house from the previous AD. And, he did. Whether or not that even qualifies as a sketchy reputation is somewhat up for debate.

 

With respect to the first part of your post, did you know that Barry Alvarez had a 6-16 overall record and was 2-14 in conference in his first two years? There are numerous other coaches who had similar starts to their coaching tenures. You need to give a coach time even if he is "obviously incompetent." (not your words, per se)

 

Unfortunately necessary disclaimer: I'm not saying Beckman is anywhere near Barry Alvarez in terms of coaching ability and not saying that Beckman will succeed. If anything, I think he's going to fail due to his seeming inability to consistently make good coaching hires and the overwhelming negativity surrounding him.

Everyone here would have fired his ass. Unacceptable.

[IlliniKrush]

This doesn't help Illinois establish a program, that's for sure:

 

http://www.thechampaignroom.com/2013/12/12...ir-counterparts

[IlliniKrush]

Take Auburn in a heart beat. I'll actually take Auburn to win. Granted, FSU has blown every one out but they've beat Clemson and nobody else.

 

On a side note, looking at the bowl projections, there is like nothing I'm looking forward to.

Care to make it interesting?

 

Although last time I did this with you in 2007 I got owned. That's what I get for betting on Ohio St.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Wisconsin won less games the three years previous to Alvarez than Illinois won in 2011. lol at using that as any sort of justification for anything. Ridiculous.

[IlliniKrush]

Wisconsin won less games the three years previous to Alvarez than Illinois won in 2011. lol at using that as any sort of justification for anything. Ridiculous.

You'll dismiss anything that doesn't fit your OMG FIRE BECKMAN agenda. We get it. But to say it's irrelevant, LMAO. Illinois was a f***ing dumpster fire after that 2011 season, period.

[Buehrle>Wood]

You'll dismiss anything that doesn't fit your OMG FIRE BECKMAN agenda. We get it. But to say it's irrelevant, LMAO. Illinois was a f***ing dumpster fire after that 2011 season, period.

Because, seriously, who cares what a Wisconsin coach hired 24 years ago did? I mean, what? How is that remotely relevant? In support of my argument, I may as well bring up some obscure coach from the 80s who started terrible and was then fired for being terrible. Hell I bet there's a lot more of those thany Alvarez'. Bringing up one unrelated coach and trying to make some meaningful comparison is really really stretching it. In a long line of awful arguments siding with Beckman, this one has to BY FAR take the cake.

[IlliniKrush]

Because, seriously, who cares what a Wisconsin coach hired 24 years ago did? I mean, what? How is that remotely relevant? In support of my argument, I may as well bring up some obscure coach from the 80s who started terrible and was then fired for being terrible. Hell I bet there's a lot more of those thany Alvarez'. Bringing up one unrelated coach and trying to make some meaningful comparison is really really stretching it. In a long line of awful arguments siding with Beckman, this one has to BY FAR take the cake.

Because it goes to show you a coach can struggle 2 years and then be able to turn it around. The argument started when 1-15 was brought up, as if that is never acceptable ever and immediately leads to a firing because no one will ever have success after it. That was proven false. It's really not that hard to comprehend.

 

I still would love to know what your expectations were sitting in August of this year, and were they met?

 

I also want to know what you are rooting for next year? You're one of those fans that seems to find joy in failure rather than success. Almost Cub-fan like. It's so easy being the FIRE THE COACH guy all day, every day.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

Everyone here would have fired his ass. Unacceptable.

Don't look at Ferentz record in his first year either.

[LittleHurt05]

How many sideline interference penalties did Alvarez and Ferentz commit in their first two seasons?

[Buehrle>Wood]

How many sideline interference penalties did Alvarez and Ferentz commit in their first two seasons?

How many times did they get caught chewing dip during the game? Get in fights on the sidelines with other coaching members? Give cringeworthy interviews to the point where the listener is suffering from second hand embarrassment? No one should want this buffoon being a face of their university unless he can make up for it by winning at least 8 games a year...and we all know that isn't happening.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Buehrle>Wood

[Buehrle>Wood]

Because it goes to show you a coach can struggagainstears and then be able to turn it around. The argument started when 1-15 was brought up, as if that is never acceptable ever and immediately leads to a firing because no one will ever have success after it. That was proven false. It's really not that hard to comprehend.

 

I still would love to know what your expectations were sitting in August of this year, and were they met?

 

I also want to know what you are rooting for next year? You're one of those fans that seems to find joy in failure rather than success. Almost Cub-fan like. It's so easy being the FIRE THE COACH guy all day, every day.

Yes, because looking at a one in a thousand coach who came into an even worse situation is dumb. Talk about your alltime cherrypick. The odds are massively against coaches who fail to win more than one conference game in their first two years, so bringing up past coaches is nothing more than a testament against Beckman.

 

We've had the expectations discussion a bunch now. We're going in circles.

 

I'm rooting for Illinois, as I always have.

[illinilaw08]

Yes, because looking at a one in a thousand coach who came into an even worse situation is dumb. Talk about your alltime cherrypick. The odds are massively against coaches who fail to win more than one conference game in their first two years, so bringing up past coaches is nothing more than a testament against Beckman.

 

We've had the expectations discussion a bunch now. We're going in circles.

 

I'm rooting for Illinois, as I always have.

 

Beckman's buffoonery in year 1 has nothing to do with year 2. The team improved in Year 2, significantly.

 

Here's the thing. I could have been on board with firing Beckman last year. The level of incompetence on the sidelines (running over officials, the dip, etc.) showed a guy that was absolutely out of his element.

 

He was better this year. The team was better this year. The defense in the Penn State game showed a ton of heart and pride (only allowed 17 points and made a number of huge stops). The message you are sending if you fire Beckman after the team was noticeably better is... not good... to the rest of the coaching world.

 

There are some interesting JUCOs coming in next year and, of course, Lunt gets the keys to the offense. I'm actually looking forward to Illinois football next year. If they win games, that will answer the recruiting questions about Beckman's job security. If they don't, or if they step back, there are grounds to let him go.

[Buehrle>Wood]

That is, yet again, giving Beckman credit for being absolutely horrible year one. He was so horrible, so stop giving him credit for improving a historically bad season for us. He should not be allowed to benefit for being inept. It's ultimately meaningless.

 

 

And for the record, the buffoonery of fighting other coaches, sideline interferences and horrible interviews all occurred this year as well.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Buehrle>Wood

[LittleHurt05]

Beckman's buffoonery in year 1 has nothing to do with year 2. The team improved in Year 2, significantly.

 

Here's the thing. I could have been on board with firing Beckman last year. The level of incompetence on the sidelines (running over officials, the dip, etc.) showed a guy that was absolutely out of his element.

 

He was better this year. The team was better this year. The defense in the Penn State game showed a ton of heart and pride (only allowed 17 points and made a number of huge stops). The message you are sending if you fire Beckman after the team was noticeably better is... not good... to the rest of the coaching world.

 

There are some interesting JUCOs coming in next year and, of course, Lunt gets the keys to the offense. I'm actually looking forward to Illinois football next year. If they win games, that will answer the recruiting questions about Beckman's job security. If they don't, or if they step back, there are grounds to let him go.

 

What about the Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Indiana, Ohio State, & Northwestern games? Is it good to allow 200 rushing yards to 5 different players?

[IlliniKrush]

Beckman's buffoonery in year 1 has nothing to do with year 2. The team improved in Year 2, significantly.

 

Here's the thing. I could have been on board with firing Beckman last year. The level of incompetence on the sidelines (running over officials, the dip, etc.) showed a guy that was absolutely out of his element.

 

He was better this year. The team was better this year. The defense in the Penn State game showed a ton of heart and pride (only allowed 17 points and made a number of huge stops). The message you are sending if you fire Beckman after the team was noticeably better is... not good... to the rest of the coaching world.

 

There are some interesting JUCOs coming in next year and, of course, Lunt gets the keys to the offense. I'm actually looking forward to Illinois football next year. If they win games, that will answer the recruiting questions about Beckman's job security. If they don't, or if they step back, there are grounds to let him go.

This exactly. If you go re-read my posts last year, I as all on board with firing him if MT thought it was the best thing to do.

 

But, BW et al still don't think it would be sending any sort of message to the coaching world. Which is ridiculous.

 

That is, yet again, giving Beckman credit for being absolutely horrible year one. He was so horrible, so stop giving him credit for improving a historically bad season for us. He should not be allowed to benefit for being inept. It's ultimately meaningless.

 

 

And for the record, the buffoonery of fighting other coaches, sideline interferences and horrible interviews all occurred this year as well.

You're seeing it however you want to see it. So whatever. No one's giving anyone credit for year one.

 

8 wins next year, btw, is not happening, so if by chance they win 6 or 7, I can't wait to have you be ready to fire him once again.

 

What about the Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Indiana, Ohio State, & Northwestern games? Is it good to allow 200 rushing yards to 5 different players?

Anyone who follows Illinois football knows the defense was going to be awful from time Camp Rantoul started due to inexperience and youth.

 

Now they have a year under their belt, are keeping the same system for next year. Major improvement has to be shown, or everyone will be gone.

 

This isn't hard to figure out. Thinking he was going to get fired for the performance this year is just silly based on what we needed to see and expectations given the talent level etc. I really don't know what anyone expected or why this is such an issue.

[IlliniKrush]

Going away from the Illinois discussion for a second...

 

I'll go on record and say that I completely think Winston raped the victim and I can't believe he wasn't charged with anything. This whole thing stinks. I feel like I'm watching a future 30 for 30 episode while it's happening. How FSU and the authorities were able to cover up and keep their Heisman QB eligible so they could go on to win a national championship.

 

Between the awkward, laughing press conference, the piece Rock put in here, and now listening to "the victim's" attorney's press conference - there's way too much smoke here. I can't help but feel that this is a giant cover-up. This went away way too quickly, and there's way too many inconsistencies and oddities here.

[illinilaw08]

What about the Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Indiana, Ohio State, & Northwestern games? Is it good to allow 200 rushing yards to 5 different players?

 

Of course it isn't. But this was an extremely young defense. If they are still giving up massive yards next year, then that's a much larger problem.

 

I brought up the Penn State example merely to show that the kids played hard for Beckman this year, even when the season was basically over already.

 

And again, if Beckman was going to be fired for Year 1, he should have been fired after Year 1 (and I don't think anyone would have complained about that).

 

Him and Cubit had a blow up on the sidelines, whatever. The sideline interference penalties obviously need to stop (though Beckman at least didn't run into any officials this year). And I absolutely think Beckman made some awful decisions this year. Like Krush, I don't know that Beckman is a long term fit at Illinois.

 

But rebuilding a football program takes time. It's rare that freshman (in the realm where the Illini are recruiting kids from) are physically ready to contribute in Year 1. You don't know what you have in a lot of these kids until they are upperclassmen. So running Beckman out of town because his really, really young defense was terrible is nonsense.

 

When Mike Thomas opted to bring Beckman back for a second year, a better showing this year meant Beckman would get Year 3. Now, if the defense is giving up 200 yards a game on the ground again in year 3, if they go 1-7 again in the league, then I think he's gone. If the Illini overachieve and win 7 or 8 games (and with some moderate improvement on the defensive side combined with a QB who can throw the ball downfield, why not?), then I think he gets an extension so questions about his job security stop. Next year is the year that determines Beckman's fate. Not this year.

[RockRaines]

Going away from the Illinois discussion for a second...

 

I'll go on record and say that I completely think Winston raped the victim and I can't believe he wasn't charged with anything. This whole thing stinks. I feel like I'm watching a future 30 for 30 episode while it's happening. How FSU and the authorities were able to cover up and keep their Heisman QB eligible so they could go on to win a national championship.

 

Between the awkward, laughing press conference, the piece Rock put in here, and now listening to "the victim's" attorney's press conference - there's way too much smoke here. I can't help but feel that this is a giant cover-up. This went away way too quickly, and there's way too many inconsistencies and oddities here.

Of course its a cover up. But there is enough gray area in the legal system especially in Florida that there is nothing anyone can do.

[RockRaines]

ESPN cut away in the middle of a statement.

[LittleHurt05]

Going away from the Illinois discussion for a second...

 

I'll go on record and say that I completely think Winston raped the victim and I can't believe he wasn't charged with anything. This whole thing stinks. I feel like I'm watching a future 30 for 30 episode while it's happening. How FSU and the authorities were able to cover up and keep their Heisman QB eligible so they could go on to win a national championship.

 

Between the awkward, laughing press conference, the piece Rock put in here, and now listening to "the victim's" attorney's press conference - there's way too much smoke here. I can't help but feel that this is a giant cover-up. This went away way too quickly, and there's way too many inconsistencies and oddities here.

 

Interesting read from a female rape victim who has worked in the court system:

 

http://aeryssports.com/jameis-winston-rape/

[clyons]

I've never heard of Thomas having a sketchy reputation. What's the back story there?

 

That may have been a poor choice of words. I have read in several places that he is extremely difficult to work with and treats people poorly; that his relationships with almost all of his coaches (specifically Mick Jones) deteriorated rapidly; that people at Cincinnati did cartwheels when he left; and that he has already alienated many big money Illinois donors in connection with the Assembly Hall/State Farm Center renovation. I have no first-hand knowledge of any of this, but can't imagine having that out there is helpful when trying to recruit top coaching talent, even if untrue.

[dasox24]

The crazy thing about Thomas is that he hired two excellent football coaches at Cincy, both of whom ended up getting premier jobs. I truly believed he would bring in a stud for Illinois too, but instead he hired one of the worst coaches I've ever seen.