Buehrle>Wood Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I'm down with Babers. He's likely a complete disaster, which is to say he's not any worse than what we have now. And if he does end up successful, I think it would be in a very big way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 03:07 PM) I'm down with Babers. He's likely a complete disaster, which is to say he's not any worse than what we have now. And if he does end up successful, I think it would be in a very big way. Some would view it as a risky hire but is there really such thing as a risky hire when your program is this bad? Take a chance on a guy who brings in a great offensive system and who could potentially do a great job here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 08:10 PM) Some would view it as a risky hire but is there really such thing as a risky hire when your program is this bad? Take a chance on a guy who brings in a great offensive system and who could potentially do a great job here. Yeah I agree he is worth trying. Have to be unique in replacing Beckman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 QUOTE (Boogua @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 02:53 PM) What makes you think it will get better and not worse? The recruiting hasn't exactly been good. This blog post here sums up my thoughts pretty nicely: http://illiniboard.com/2013/10/21/expounding/ So when Tim Beckman arrived, for secondary players in 2013, he was left with Earnest Thomas (who was at linebacker at the time), Eaton Spence, and Nick North. He should have had nine players, but he had three. And so here we are, having to play first and second year players. Defensive tackle is similar. In the 2010 recruiting class, Zook didn’t recruit any defensive tackles (Jake Howe was a fullback that we moved to DT, and Austin Teitsma was a defensive end that we moved inside). In the 2011 class, Zook recruited three defensive tackles, but Willie Beavers couldn’t make it in to school and switched to Western Michigan, Clint Tucker couldn’t make it into school and went Juco, and Chris Jones made it here for two weeks before getting arrested and kicked off the team, so none of the three even made it to their first Camp Rantoul. Which means Beckman was left with Howe (moved from fullback), Teitsma (moved from DE), and then all newcomers for 2013. To me, that’s a huge, huge handicap. I’ve been talking about it since the first day of spring ball. I’m really not sure what people want Tim Beckman and Tim Banks to do about it. You have to play the young guys because you didn’t inherit anyone else, and young guys are mostly going to get bulldozed by older more experienced players. The only real criticism I can find is that the coaching staff didn’t address the defensive needs well enough with Jucos. Abe Cajuste, Eric Finney, and Zane Petty are coming along, but we’re just not getting the instant impact that we so desperately needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 QUOTE (gatnom @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 04:17 PM) This blog post here sums up my thoughts pretty nicely: http://illiniboard.com/2013/10/21/expounding/ Yes, that shows how Zook screwed up near the end, but it's not like Beckman has come in and is lighting the world on fire with his recruiting. Most of the players that are committed have MAC type offers. I don't think the Illini will be trending upwards with low 3 star and 2 star players for recruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 QUOTE (Boogua @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 05:10 PM) Yes, that shows how Zook screwed up near the end, but it's not like Beckman has come in and is lighting the world on fire with his recruiting. Most of the players that are committed have MAC type offers. I don't think the Illini will be trending upwards with low 3 star and 2 star players for recruits. Once they gain experience, they will improve. At the very least, they'll get bigger and stronger. Whether or not the recruits are good enough to be mediocre with experience is debatable, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 QUOTE (gatnom @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 05:21 PM) Once they gain experience, they will improve. At the very least, they'll get bigger and stronger. Whether or not the recruits are good enough to be mediocre with experience is debatable, I guess. So you would like to take a wait-and-see approach with a coach that has proven to be awful in-game and has been recruiting at the bottom of the B1G? That seems like a recipe for disaster. At least right now the Illini have two QBs in Lunt and Bailey that a different coach might be able to capitalize on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I swear, Northwestern is going to have to forfeit by the end of the year because they don't have enough players. They're down to their 6th string RB and numerous other key players have missed games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 02:34 PM) Losing was the best possible outcome. Time to fire Beckman. Beckman and Banks are F'N clowns need s*** canned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 As always, Indiana finds a ridiculous way to blow a game that they had in their hands and probably kill their chances of a bowl bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 YOU'VE GOTTA BE f***ING KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 lol, Bo saves his job for one more week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 11:22 PM) YOU'VE GOTTA BE f***ING KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Incredible. Sorry man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I would be getting blackout drunk right now, but unfortunately I have to work tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 QUOTE (zenryan @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 06:23 PM) lol, Bo saves his job for one more week. Unreal finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord chas Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 So ticked off right now. How do you let a receiver get behind the whole defense in that situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 QUOTE (lord chas @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 07:33 PM) So ticked off right now. How do you let a receiver get behind the whole defense in that situation? just slipped out when everyone was bunched up together. Probably doesnt happen if the ball wasnt under thrown. The whole group kinda drifted up a yard or so and that guy stayed back and it fell into his lap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 QUOTE (Boogua @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 05:26 PM) So you would like to take a wait-and-see approach with a coach that has proven to be awful in-game and has been recruiting at the bottom of the B1G? That seems like a recipe for disaster. At least right now the Illini have two QBs in Lunt and Bailey that a different coach might be able to capitalize on. You're kind of exaggerating the recruiting (at least with respect to last year). Ultimately, I think Beckman can run a mediocre program. Despite the fact that he is significantly better at running a program than Zook, I don't think he can exceed that because I don't think he's good enough at identifying coaches to overcome his scheme deficiencies. This leads us to "what kind of an idiot would take on this team basically full of 3-star or less sophomores while realizing he has only 2 years to turn it around?" I'm not necessarily opposed to a coaching change. However, I don't think probably making this team worse by losing the little talent we have by firing Beckman is actually worth maybe getting a better coach who might get the rebuild moving along more quickly (not a guarantee by any means). Is there a coach out there better than Beckman? Probably. But, would he be willing to take this job? I know I wouldn't risk my career on Illinois, at least not right now while it's so far buried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 QUOTE (gatnom @ Nov 3, 2013 -> 12:53 AM) You're kind of exaggerating the recruiting (at least with respect to last year). Ultimately, I think Beckman can run a mediocre program. Despite the fact that he is significantly better at running a program than Zook, I don't think he can exceed that because I don't think he's good enough at identifying coaches to overcome his scheme deficiencies. The recruiting is going to get even worse because he is a lame duck coach. It is time to act now. And he certainly is not better at running a program than Zook, or he hasn't come remotely close to showing it. Not that Zook was some mastermind, but he was soooooo much better than Beckman has ever been. I lost the numbers, but the scoring margin for Zook vs Beckman (even in Zook's first and last years) is a blowout in favor of Zook. We aren't even remotely competitive under Timmy. Zook also got us to a Rose Bowl while Beckman has lost 12 straight Big 10 games. You cannot possibly say Beckman is "significantly better at running a program than Zook". There's 0 evidence of that. QUOTE (gatnom @ Nov 3, 2013 -> 12:53 AM) Is there a coach out there better than Beckman? Probably. But, would he be willing to take this job? I know I wouldn't risk my career on Illinois, at least not right now while it's so far buried. This is not the question you should be asking. Really, it should be, "could we possibly do any worse than Tim Beckman?" And since we can't win a single Big Ten game, and can't even be remotely competitive in most of those games, the answer is definitely no, you cannot. At the extreme worst case scenario, we hire the second coming of Tim Beckman, which is the same as keeping him. He's the worst we can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 07:14 PM) The recruiting is going to get even worse because he is a lame duck coach. It is time to act now. And he certainly is not better at running a program than Zook, or he hasn't come remotely close to showing it. Not that Zook was some mastermind, but he was soooooo much better than Beckman has ever been. I lost the numbers, but the scoring margin for Zook vs Beckman (even in Zook's first and last years) is a blowout in favor of Zook. We aren't even remotely competitive under Timmy. Zook also got us to a Rose Bowl while Beckman has lost 12 straight Big 10 games. You cannot possibly say Beckman is "significantly better at running a program than Zook". There's 0 evidence of that. I meant keeping kids out of trouble and on the team. He hasn't recruited, for the most part, guys who are unable to actually play football here. He also seems to be not allergic to recruiting defensive backs and offensive tackles. So many of Zook's recruits fizzled out, failed out, played out of position, or got kicked out of school. This doesn't seem to be a problem with Beckman, and that is what I meant by being better at running a program. QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 07:14 PM) This is not the question you should be asking. Really, it should be, "could we possibly do any worse than Tim Beckman?" And since we can't win a single Big Ten game, and can't even be remotely competitive in most of those games, the answer is definitely no, you cannot. At the extreme worst case scenario, we hire the second coming of Tim Beckman, which is the same as keeping him. He's the worst we can do. Yes, we can do worse than Beckman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 QUOTE (gatnom @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 07:25 PM) I meant keeping kids out of trouble and on the team. He hasn't recruited, for the most part, guys who are unable to actually play football here. He also seems to be not allergic to recruiting defensive backs and offensive tackles. So many of Zook's recruits fizzled out, failed out, played out of position, or got kicked out of school. This doesn't seem to be a problem with Beckman, and that is what I meant by being better at running a program. Yes, we can do worse than Beckman. Zook also recruited a lot of players that are playing on Sundays. He may make the worst in game decisions in CFB history, but he had talented players that liked to play for him. His second year in Chambana was way better than Beckmans has been, and that was with Ron Turner's recruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 07:52 PM) Zook also recruited a lot of players that are playing on Sundays. He may make the worst in game decisions in CFB history, but he had talented players that liked to play for him. His second year in Chambana was way better than Beckmans has been, and that was with Ron Turner's recruits. Ron Zook was a way better recruiter than Beckman, there's no doubt. However, Zook just didn't seem to have much of a plan with what he was doing, and I think Beckman handles the recruiting aspect of the job much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Yay Mizzou. Mauk doesn't have much touch on slants but he is explosive. Ours rbs/dline took it over though. Only UT points was a 51 harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 QUOTE (gatnom @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 08:48 PM) Ron Zook was a way better recruiter than Beckman, there's no doubt. However, Zook just didn't seem to have much of a plan with what he was doing, and I think Beckman handles the recruiting aspect of the job much better. Wait, what? How does Beckman do recruiting better? Recruiting was the one thing Zook did right. Only USC and Bama had more first round picks from 07-12. That sounds better than "good guy" 2 stars. First time I have ever seen Zook called out for his recruiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 My favorite Big Ten team is Indiana. My second favorite Big Team is Northwestern. Today was not pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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