Official 2013-2014 NCAA Football Thread

[LittleHurt05]

He ran the program into the ground. And now we're seeing the results. Please don't let "bowl games" cloud your judgment. That's the biggest bs statement. Should have been gone after 2009.

 

Ran the program into the ground? Did you see what he inherited from Ron Turner? You were there then. Look at what Turner inherited from Tepper. The program has been in the ground several times, Zook didn't ruin some blue blood football program.

 

Plus, you are ignoring the most important fact:

 

[IlliniKrush]

Ran the program into the ground? Did you see what he inherited from Ron Turner? You were there then. Look at what Turner inherited from Tepper. The program has been in the ground several times, Zook didn't ruin some blue blood football program.

 

Plus, you are ignoring the most important fact:

 

After the Rose Bowl? Ran the program into the ground. He had to go, and should have went earlier. Whether or not Beckman is the answer is irrelevant to keeping Zook.

[bmags]

Ole Miss was actually a pretty good football team this year. Had a brutal schedule.

 

But, their basketball team ruined any good will. I hope they never win.

[clyons]

Ran the program into the ground? Did you see what he inherited from Ron Turner? You were there then. Look at what Turner inherited from Tepper. The program has been in the ground several times, Zook didn't ruin some blue blood football program.

 

Plus, you are ignoring the most important fact:

 

 

I agree with LittleHurt re the Zookster. Sadly, 3 bowl games (1 BCS) in 5 years plus hilarity and barefoot water skiing awesomeness is good enough for me at my basketball school. I go back 30+ years. Bad as he was, Zook was the second best coach Illinois has had since then who didn't blatantly cheat.

[LittleHurt05]

After the Rose Bowl? Ran the program into the ground. He had to go, and should have went earlier. Whether or not Beckman is the answer is irrelevant to keeping Zook.

 

His final two seasons were the first time Illinois had consecutive winning seasons in 20 years. How exactly is that running the program into the ground?

[whitesoxfan99]

His final two seasons were the first time Illinois had consecutive winning seasons in 20 years. How exactly is that running the program into the ground?

 

His 2010 and 2011 classes were Ron Turner level bad (maybe worse when you factor in attrition) and his 2012 class wasn't going any better before he was fired. Propping Zook up with coordinators who did most of the coaching led to a couple mediocre seasons where Illinois had as much or more NFL talent then pretty much any other team in the Big 10 not named OSU or Wisconsin but predictably Zook's recruiting also fell off because no one had any confidence in him after the 2008 and 2009 seasons and none of the coaches on that staff were particularly good recruiters. If that staff stays together last years team might have been ok but with the lack of talent coming into the program Zook had Illinois heading back to the end of the Turner era. A real program would have fired Zook in 2009 and the next coach would have come into a really good situation to succeed right off the bat. But that would have actually required balls and forward thinking and sadly Guenther doesn't have either of those.

 

Seriously besides Jonathan Brown and Cvijanovic there isn't a single player from the 2010 class who is an above average Big 10 player and you have to stretch to find average Big 10 players. And the only good Big 10 player from the 2011 class is Josh Ferguson with Lacosse and Jon Davis being solid Big 10 tight ends. Notably there isn't a single legitimate Big 10 defensive lineman in either of those classes.

 

Beckman was a bad hire but I have no problem with the decision to fire Zook.

 

Edited December 3, 2013 by whitesoxfan99

[Jenksismyhero]

His 2010 and 2011 classes were Ron Turner level bad (maybe worse when you factor in attrition) and his 2012 class wasn't going any better before he was fired. Propping Zook up with coordinators who did most of the coaching led to a couple mediocre seasons where Illinois had as much or more NFL talent then pretty much any other team in the Big 10 not named OSU or Wisconsin but predictably Zook's recruiting also fell off because no one had any confidence in him after the 2008 and 2009 seasons and none of the coaches on that staff were particularly good recruiters. If that staff stays together last years team might have been ok but with the lack of talent coming into the program Zook had Illinois heading back to the end of the Turner era. A real program would have fired Zook in 2009 and the next coach would have come into a really good situation to succeed right off the bat. But that would have actually required balls and forward thinking and sadly Guenther doesn't have either of those.

 

Seriously besides Jonathan Brown and Cvijanovic there isn't a single player from the 2010 class who is an above average Big 10 player and you have to stretch to find average Big 10 players. And the only good Big 10 player from the 2011 class is Josh Ferguson with Lacosse and Jon Davis being solid Big 10 tight ends. Notably there isn't a single legitimate Big 10 defensive lineman in either of those classes.

 

Beckman was a bad hire but I have no problem with the decision to fire Zook.

 

Either they should have accepted the fact that he would have built a consistently middle-of-the-pack big ten team with a chance at a decent bowl every few years, or they should have fired him in 2009. Keeping him around as a lame duck coach hurt his recruiting, and by the time they got rid of him it was too late. I think if they had been satisfied with what he was doing and supported him he could have kept up the recruiting and we would have been an average program.

 

Instead, they waited too long and hired a s***ty coach. I can't believe 1 big ten win in 2 years is enough to keep you around for 3 years, talent or no talent. There has been little improvement. He better hope Cubit stays and Lunt is worth the hype, otherwise it's going to be another winless season next year.

 

I still would have given him a 5-600k contract to be a recruiting coordinator. The dude can find hidden NFL talent better than most.

[whitesoxfan99]

Either they should have accepted the fact that he would have built a consistently middle-of-the-pack big ten team with a chance at a decent bowl every few years, or they should have fired him in 2009. Keeping him around as a lame duck coach hurt his recruiting, and by the time they got rid of him it was too late. I think if they had been satisfied with what he was doing and supported him he could have kept up the recruiting and we would have been an average program.

 

Instead, they waited too long and hired a s***ty coach. I can't believe 1 big ten win in 2 years is enough to keep you around for 3 years, talent or no talent. There has been little improvement. He better hope Cubit stays and Lunt is worth the hype, otherwise it's going to be another winless season next year.

 

I still would have given him a 5-600k contract to be a recruiting coordinator. The dude can find hidden NFL talent better than most.

 

That is just it though, there is nothing in Zook's 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes that suggests this would have been a middle of the pack big ten team going forward. Zook was also coming off a 3-9 season in 2009 where the team wasn't even competitive in most games despite having a number of NFL players. There was literally nothing to suggest he was going to build Illinois into a consistently middle of the pack big ten team after that season.

Edited December 3, 2013 by whitesoxfan99

[Jenksismyhero]

That is just it though, there is nothing in Zook's 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes that suggests this would have been a middle of the pack big ten team going forward. Zook was also coming off a 3-9 season in 2009 where the team wasn't even competitive in most games despite having a number of NFL players. There was literally nothing to suggest he was going to build Illinois into a consistently middle of the pack big ten team after that season.

 

But in those years he had the same problem Beckman has right now - how do you convince 18 year olds to come play for you when all they hear is that you won't be around when they get on campus? It's basically an impossible task for a losing program.

[Dick Allen]

That is just it though, there is nothing in Zook's 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes that suggests this would have been a middle of the pack big ten team going forward. Zook was also coming off a 3-9 season in 2009 where the team wasn't even competitive in most games despite having a number of NFL players. There was literally nothing to suggest he was going to build Illinois into a consistently middle of the pack big ten team after that season.

Zook would be a great assistant. Just put him in the coach's booth on gameday, mute his headset, and let him hit the road recruiting.

[Dick Allen]

But in those years he had the same problem Beckman has right now - how do you convince 18 year olds to come play for you when all they hear is that you won't be around when they get on campus? It's basically an impossible task for a losing program.

Once you hit lame duck status, it's hard to get rid of it. The only way would be for ILL to give him a long extension, and the losing makes that impossible.

[whitesoxfan99]

Zook would be a great assistant. Just put him in the coach's booth on gameday, mute his headset, and let him hit the road recruiting.

 

Absolutely agree with this. Zook would kill it as a recruiting coordinator. It is generally really hard for someone who was a head coach for 10 years at BCS level programs to check their ego and do that though.

[RockRaines]

Absolutely agree with this. Zook would kill it as a recruiting coordinator. It is generally really hard for someone who was a head coach for 10 years at BCS level programs to check their ego and do that though.

Miami U has a HC opening this offseason, he can return to his roots.

[cabiness42]

Miami U has a HC opening this offseason, he can return to his roots.

 

HC opening has been filled. You're welcome.

 

[IlliniKrush]

His final two seasons were the first time Illinois had consecutive winning seasons in 20 years. How exactly is that running the program into the ground?

Answer below.

 

His 2010 and 2011 classes were Ron Turner level bad (maybe worse when you factor in attrition) and his 2012 class wasn't going any better before he was fired. Propping Zook up with coordinators who did most of the coaching led to a couple mediocre seasons where Illinois had as much or more NFL talent then pretty much any other team in the Big 10 not named OSU or Wisconsin but predictably Zook's recruiting also fell off because no one had any confidence in him after the 2008 and 2009 seasons and none of the coaches on that staff were particularly good recruiters. If that staff stays together last years team might have been ok but with the lack of talent coming into the program Zook had Illinois heading back to the end of the Turner era. A real program would have fired Zook in 2009 and the next coach would have come into a really good situation to succeed right off the bat. But that would have actually required balls and forward thinking and sadly Guenther doesn't have either of those.

 

Seriously besides Jonathan Brown and Cvijanovic there isn't a single player from the 2010 class who is an above average Big 10 player and you have to stretch to find average Big 10 players. And the only good Big 10 player from the 2011 class is Josh Ferguson with Lacosse and Jon Davis being solid Big 10 tight ends. Notably there isn't a single legitimate Big 10 defensive lineman in either of those classes.

 

Beckman was a bad hire but I have no problem with the decision to fire Zook.

This exactly. Ron Zook was an awful coach, and then recruiting fell off on top of it. Zero value.

 

Either they should have accepted the fact that he would have built a consistently middle-of-the-pack big ten team with a chance at a decent bowl every few years, or they should have fired him in 2009. Keeping him around as a lame duck coach hurt his recruiting, and by the time they got rid of him it was too late. I think if they had been satisfied with what he was doing and supported him he could have kept up the recruiting and we would have been an average program.

 

Instead, they waited too long and hired a s***ty coach. I can't believe 1 big ten win in 2 years is enough to keep you around for 3 years, talent or no talent. There has been little improvement. He better hope Cubit stays and Lunt is worth the hype, otherwise it's going to be another winless season next year.

 

I still would have given him a 5-600k contract to be a recruiting coordinator. The dude can find hidden NFL talent better than most.

I don't think with Zook Illinois is a consistent middle of the pack team. But yes, he needed to go after 2009.

 

As for your last point, I think it's pretty interesting and telling that no one wants him to do just that.

[RockRaines]

HC opening has been filled. You're welcome.

Lots of folks were predicting Tressel. Guess not.

[Dick Allen]

Answer below.

 

 

This exactly. Ron Zook was an awful coach, and then recruiting fell off on top of it. Zero value.

 

 

I don't think with Zook Illinois is a consistent middle of the pack team. But yes, he needed to go after 2009.

 

As for your last point, I think it's pretty interesting and telling that no one wants him to do just that.

Why would a guy getting paid to sit at home want to be a recruiting coordinator and chase around high school guys? There are plenty of schools that would love to have Zook recruiting for them.

 

There is no question he is a good recruiter. His classes did drop off when his job security became an issue, but Illinois has more players in the NFL than most Big 10 teams even though their record would indicate they should not.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Soxfest]

Beckman was a bad hire but I have no problem with the decision to fire Zook.

Thomas mistake was hiring the guy 200th on list of potential coaches. A lot of people in college football want nothing to do with Thomas. Cinn was happy as hell he left for Illinois.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Soxfest

[LittleHurt05]

His 2010 and 2011 classes were Ron Turner level bad (maybe worse when you factor in attrition) and his 2012 class wasn't going any better before he was fired. Propping Zook up with coordinators who did most of the coaching led to a couple mediocre seasons where Illinois had as much or more NFL talent then pretty much any other team in the Big 10 not named OSU or Wisconsin but predictably Zook's recruiting also fell off because no one had any confidence in him after the 2008 and 2009 seasons and none of the coaches on that staff were particularly good recruiters. If that staff stays together last years team might have been ok but with the lack of talent coming into the program Zook had Illinois heading back to the end of the Turner era. A real program would have fired Zook in 2009 and the next coach would have come into a really good situation to succeed right off the bat. But that would have actually required balls and forward thinking and sadly Guenther doesn't have either of those.

 

Seriously besides Jonathan Brown and Cvijanovic there isn't a single player from the 2010 class who is an above average Big 10 player and you have to stretch to find average Big 10 players. And the only good Big 10 player from the 2011 class is Josh Ferguson with Lacosse and Jon Davis being solid Big 10 tight ends. Notably there isn't a single legitimate Big 10 defensive lineman in either of those classes.

 

Beckman was a bad hire but I have no problem with the decision to fire Zook.

 

So you are willing to fire a guy solely based on his recruiting while ignoring his team's success on the field? If a couple of mediocre seasons are no big deal at Illinois, why had it been 19 years since they won even 6 games in back-to-back seasons? Who cares if the coordinators did most of the coaching, it worked. Maybe he could have turned the recruiting around had he had any support after making two straight bowl games, which isn't very common in Champaign.

[southsider2k5]

Thomas mistake was hiring the guy 200th on list of potential coaches. A lot of people in college football want nothing to do with Thomas. Cinn was happy as hell he left for Illinois.

 

A lot of people want nothing to do with Illinois football, which is the primary reason they hired the "200th guy".

[Jenksismyhero]

A lot of people want nothing to do with Illinois football, which is the primary reason they hired the "200th guy".

 

I never understood why. It's a basketball school yes, but as a kid my family tailgated every home game from the mid to late 80's to the late 90's and it was a decent program back then. They'd win some games, lose some games and usually end up in a decent bowl game (and lose, but still). Since then they've won a big ten championship and gone to 2 BCS bowls, so clearly you CAN win there.

 

Wisconsin is what Illinois should aspire to be at this point. They were awful for a long time and then got a coach and stuck with him for a long time.

[IlliniKrush]

So you are willing to fire a guy solely based on his recruiting while ignoring his team's success on the field? If a couple of mediocre seasons are no big deal at Illinois, why had it been 19 years since they won even 6 games in back-to-back seasons? Who cares if the coordinators did most of the coaching, it worked. Maybe he could have turned the recruiting around had he had any support after making two straight bowl games, which isn't very common in Champaign.

My God please stop with this nonsense, the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl was a joke. They went 2-6 in conference, losing 6 straight. That was an epic meltdown.

 

Let's not honor that as some sort of great accomplishment. History of the program or no history.

[IlliniKrush]

I never understood why. It's a basketball school yes, but as a kid my family tailgated every home game from the mid to late 80's to the late 90's and it was a decent program back then. They'd win some games, lose some games and usually end up in a decent bowl game (and lose, but still). Since then they've won a big ten championship and gone to 2 BCS bowls, so clearly you CAN win there.

 

Wisconsin is what Illinois should aspire to be at this point. They were awful for a long time and then got a coach and stuck with him for a long time.

Wisconsin is exactly it. Just haven't found a guy that's nearly Alvarez. Zook wasn't, it appears Beckman likely isn't.

[RockRaines]

Wisconsin is exactly it. Just haven't found a guy that's nearly Alvarez. Zook wasn't, it appears Beckman likely isn't.

They got by with Bert as a figurehead and now Andersen who appears to be the real deal. There is something missing from the ILL athletic office and I believe its knowledge of how to develop a football program.

[Jenksismyhero]

I believe it's the board of trustees not giving two s***s about the football program. It's never been a priority there.

 

Really though it comes down to piss poor coaching selection. You had two good hires in White and Mackovic. Tepper was the Lovie Smith of the program - a great defensive mind that could never get the offense going. Turner was the opposite as his offenses flourished but it was never enough to win. And unfortunately he forgot you had to recruit every year to win. Zook was brought in to recruit but he couldn't coach or develop guys. And now Beckman, who can't do anything well, but admittedly has a stacked deck to play with.

 

I also blame Guenther. He made mistake after mistake in his hiring and then compounded the problem by waiting too long to get rid of his bad decisions.