Ventura stressing more contact and less K's

[Lillian]

Look, we can assume that Viciedo will soon learn to hit RH pitching, and that may be. However, Ethier is a case in point. He still hasn't learned to hit LH pitching, and he's a 31 year old veteran.

I just think that this is a viable solution to a glaring offensive deficiency on the Sox roster. You platoon two corner outfielders, maximizing their strengths, you get the left handed presence you need, you fill the hole in the middle of the lineup, and you do so without having to give up anyone whose absence would create another hole.

Again, the key would be to move some salary, and Thornton is the best candidate for that. I think that Veal would be a great LOOGY, and the Sox certainly have plenty of LH arms.

Didn't the Dodgers express interest in acqiring a LH reliever?

[southsider2k5]

Yea, his first full year. So strange that he would struggle, nobody ever does that.

 

Especially because his whole career shows him struggling early at each level, and then adjusting.

[southsider2k5]

Look, we can assume that Viciedo will soon learn to hit RH pitching, and that may be. However, Ethier is a case in point. He still hasn't learned to hit LH pitching, and he's a 31 year old veteran.

I just think that this is a viable solution to a glaring offensive deficiency on the Sox roster. You platoon two corner outfielders, maximizing their strengths, you get the left handed presence you need, you fill the hole in the middle of the lineup, and you do so without having to give up anyone whose absence would create another hole.

Again, the key would be to move some salary, and Thornton is the best candidate for that. I think that Veal would be a great LOOGY, and the Sox certainly have plenty of LH arms.

Didn't the Dodgers express interest in acqiring a LH reliever?

 

Reality is that if the Sox trade for Andre Either, they aren't going to have him share time. No one would do that.

[Kyyle23]

Look, we can assume that Viciedo will soon learn to hit RH pitching, and that may be. However, Ethier is a case in point. He still hasn't learned to hit LH pitching, and he's a 31 year old veteran.

I just think that this is a viable solution to a glaring offensive deficiency on the Sox roster. You platoon two corner outfielders, maximizing their strengths, you get the left handed presence you need, you fill the hole in the middle of the lineup, and you do so without having to give up anyone whose absence would create another hole.

Again, the key would be to move some salary, and Thornton is the best candidate for that. I think that Veal would be a great LOOGY, and the Sox certainly have plenty of LH arms.

Didn't the Dodgers express interest in acqiring a LH reliever?

 

You are contrastng a 31 year old veteran and 24 year old 2nd year player as if they have the same skillset on opposite sides of the plate.

 

And as SS2K5 mentioned, Viciedo has shown the ability to adapt and adjust at every level he has been at. Why would you just throw him into a platoon role with a highly paid player that really has no business platooning?

 

If Viciedo has the same year in 2013 that he had in 2012, I will agree that either he has to be moved or platooned, but I am not ready to start kicking dirt over his career based on one season.

[LittleHurt05]

Well, maybe he ought to rethink that. Here are Viciedo's stats versus RHP last year:

AVG .225

OBP .271

SLG .380

 

I was all for benching Viciedo vs. RHP last August & September, but starting this season off with him in a platoon is basically calling him a failure as a baseball player, you might as well trade him now. I think you start the year with him playing everyday, if he has the same struggles through the All-Star Break, then you can start thinking about the platoon. He's too young to label as a LHP only batter.

[balfanman]

Other than Viciedo, which I tend to agree you don't platoon just yet, it could be insurance (expensive insurance) for other spots as well. Say that Rios reverts back to sucking (it is an odd numbered year), or someone gets injured. I have no idea what other positions Ethier can play, but maybe a few games at 1st base. Can he play 3rd?

 

It's not a totally bad idea, but I'm not sure how realistic.

[Lillian]

I appreciate all of your comments on this subject, but what about the basic question of acquiring the LH bat, and the fact that Ethier is terrible vs. LHP?

This suggestion of platooning Viciedo and Ethier is not just a matter of getting Viciedo's bat out of the lineup vs. RHP.

[southsider2k5]

I appreciate all of your comments on this subject, but what about the basic question of acquiring the LH bat, and the fact that Ethier is terrible vs. LHP?

This suggestion of platooning Viciedo and Ethier is not just a matter of getting Viciedo's bat out of the lineup vs. RHP.

 

The following is why no one is platooning with Andre Eithier.

 

2013 $13,500,000

2014 $15,500,000

2015 $18,000,000

2016 $18,000,000

2017 $17,500,000

2018 *$17,500,000

$17.5M Vesting Option, $2.5M Buyout

 

[balfanman]

The following is why no one is platooning with Andre Eithier.

 

 

 

Oh......... .........Nevermind!

[Y2Jimmy0]

The following is why no one is platooning with Andre Eithier.

 

Great Point. If Ethier was even thought of on the White Sox, it would have to come at the expense of Rios in my opinion. White Sox will not platoon Viciedo and they shouldn't. Ethier will not be platooning either with that salary.

[hammerhead johnson]

White Sox will not platoon Viciedo and they shouldn't.

 

Yeah, they should just get rid of him. It's all part of the fumigation process.

 

To anybody who thinks otherwise, just remember that he'd have to make a quantum leap just to be decent against right-handed pitching. He's not a building block.

[Dick Allen]

Yeah, they should just get rid of him. It's all part of the fumigation process.

 

To anybody who thinks otherwise, just remember that he'd have to make a quantum leap just to be decent against right-handed pitching. He's not a building block.

Why can't he make that leap? Curtis Granderson put up a .484 OPS vs. LHP in 2009, and got it up to .944 in 2011.

 

And if you with all your knowledge know he can't get better, why would anyone who actually gets paid to make decisions think he will and actually give up something of value to get him?

[3E8]

Viciedo's line against RHP two years ago in Charlotte was .305/.357/.501 in 373 PAs. Better than he hit against LHP that season. He's not going to be as bad against RHP as his major league split suggests.

[Lillian]

As good as Ethier is vs. RHP, he is that bad vs. LHP. He's awful, like 100 points lower batting average. It's an openly stated, big concern of the Dodgers.

I understand that they are rumored to be interested in moving him, and his contract, in order to acquire a true center fielder, who could lead off.

If they could find a taker for Ethier, they apparently would like to sign Bourn, as I mentioned.

 

I just don't understand what is wrong with maximizing the talents of two players, given the right price, if you can have them put up combined numbers like the ones

they accomplished last season, from a hypothetical platoon. We aren't just talking about decent numbers. We're talking about the best offensive numbers that this current roster

could be expected to get from any of the existing players. Who on this roster is going to hit .331 with a approximate .400 OBP, and still provide respectable Slugging numbers?

The answer is no one. That platoon instantly becomes our #3 hitter, while adding that badly needed left handed bat vs. RHP.

 

You can say that it is unrealistic to think that the Dodgers would make the trade, or that the Sox would spend the money. But I am not convinced that it wouldn't be a good idea, if they could

pull it off. If Viciedo could get enough at bats vs. RHP, while spelling Konerko, he could demonstrate his ability to hit righties, and eventually become a full time player. With both Dunn and

Konerko likely gone in the next couple of years, Viciedo would have a spot on the roster. But who in the meantime thinks that he is going to be good enough vs. RHP, to bat in the middle of the order?

 

You have to think about the "3 year board". This organization does not have a single impact left handed bat anywhere on that horizon. The first candidate would be Keo Barnum, and he just finished high school. Ethier could be a solid offensive contributor, from the left side for almost all 5 remaining years of his contract. Dunn will hopefully be gone after next season, and the Sox

will likely be looking for at least one more left handed bat to replace him. Ethier would have significant value to this team for the next several seasons.

[Lillian]

Viciedo's line against RHP two years ago in Charlotte was .305/.357/.501 in 373 PAs. Better than he hit against LHP that season. He's not going to be as bad against RHP as his major league split suggests.

 

Yes, but at the Big League level, pitchers have discovered that he can't lay off the hard breaking balls away. I'm not saying that he can't make the adjustment, but so far it is clear that he has not. He's a monster vs. LHP, where that pitch is not a factor.

[Chicago White Sox]

Viciedo's line against RHP two years ago in Charlotte was .305/.357/.501 in 373 PAs. Better than he hit against LHP that season. He's not going to be as bad against RHP as his major league split suggests.

Thanks for posting that. The kid has a much better hit tool than people realize.

[LittleHurt05]

Viciedo's line against RHP two years ago in Charlotte was .305/.357/.501 in 373 PAs. Better than he hit against LHP that season. He's not going to be as bad against RHP as his major league split suggests.

 

Interesting. Makes even more sense to let him fight through his issues vs. RHP last year.

[3E8]

Yes, but at the Big League level, pitchers have discovered that he can't lay off the hard breaking balls away. I'm not saying that he can't make the adjustment, but so far it is clear that he has not. He's a monster vs. LHP, where that pitch is not a factor.

Say Viciedo does make an adjustment or his skill naturally improves as the aging curve says it should. He learns to lay off a larger percentage of those pitches or at least foul them away. Then the pitch becomes less detrimental to his offense, and he can bridge some of the gap between his disappointing line vs. RHP and .350/.391/.642 he put up in 2012 where that pitch was not a factor. To platoon Viciedo at this point would be a knee-jerk reaction as Hahn implied at SoxFest.

[Dick Allen]

People want the White Sox to develop players. Developing players doesn't mean giving them one year and disposing them or making them part timers. Taking occassional lumps happens to be part of development.

[hammerhead johnson]

People want the White Sox to develop players. Developing players doesn't mean giving them one year and disposing them or making them part timers. Taking occassional lumps happens to be part of development.

 

a 5% walk rate is not an occasional lump. It's pretty terrifying, actually.

 

I don't want the White Sox wasting their time developing players with limited plate discipline upside unless they're bringing top notch glovework to crucial defensive positions.

[Dick Allen]

a 5% walk rate is not an occasional lump. It's pretty terrifying, actually.

 

I don't want the White Sox wasting their time developing players with limited plate discipline upside unless they're bringing top notch glovework to crucial defensive positions.

Check Carlos Lee's walk rate his first season coincidentally age 23 like Viciedo. 2.5%. He made a lot of money hitting baseballs and was Viciedo in LF without the arm.

As long as Viciedo is the age he is listed, there is plenty of hope he can become a force.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Lillian]

This all goes back to the basic question; "Is this team interested in trying to compete for the Central Division crown this season?"

If they are, then they better not rely on Viciedo suddently learning to hit RHP. Moreover, they better not try to beat the Tigers RH pitchers with the current lineup.

I don't care if they decide to rebuild, but I wonder why they resigned Peavy, if that is the plan.

[ScottyDo]

This all goes back to the basic question; "Is this team interested in trying to compete for the Central Division crown this season?"

If they are, then they better not rely on Viciedo suddently learning to hit RHP. Moreover, they better not try to beat the Tigers RH pitchers with the current lineup.

I don't care if they decide to rebuild, but I wonder why they resigned Peavy, if that is the plan.

They competed last year with Viciedo not hitting RHP. Wanting to compete does not necessitate abandoning all young players who have weaknesses. Not on this team, and not on any other.

[The Ginger Kid]

Check Carlos Lee's walk rate his first season coincidentally age 23 like Viciedo. 2.5%. He made a lot of money hitting baseballs and was Viciedo in LF without the arm.

As long as Viciedo is the age he is listed, there is plenty of hope he can become a force.

I'm a terrible prognosticator, but watching Nate Jones in person early in ST last year, I predicted he would break camp with the team and contribute. I'm going on record now as saying I think Viciedo is going to have a huge year. I think some of the flashes of hulksmash power we saw becomes more consistent. Anyone check out the video of him and Lexi working out in Miami?

 

Lexi and Dayan workout

[Lillian]

They competed last year with Viciedo not hitting RHP. Wanting to compete does not necessitate abandoning all young players who have weaknesses. Not on this team, and not on any other.

 

You know, if this roster had more good hitters, it would be a lot easier to hide Viciedo's production vs. RHP. Unfortunately, they don't. I think that the sox have to start somewhere, and getting that left handed bat is as good a place as any. So then, the question is; whom would that left handed bat replace?

There is no room anywhere else, is there? He wouldn't replace Konerko, and we couldn't replace Dunn, because no one would take him, Rios is one of the bright spots, centerfield in not a likely place to look for an impact left handed bat, and left handed hitting third basemen are rare.

 

 

So, it comes down to LF. Another good thing about my scenario is that you could still keep and play Viciedo, and let him learn to hit RHP, little by little.

I suggested that he could get some experience spelling Konerko ocassionally.

 

Of course, some on this site seem perfectly willing to go into the season with the roster just the way it is. I just don't think that his offense can compete with Detroit, and I don't expect them to fair much better against the Tigers in head to head competitition than they did last season. So, I'm dreaming about solutions, OK?

Edited February 1, 2013 by Lillian