Ventura stressing more contact and less K's

[WilburWilhelm]

I think the defense part is what needs to be emphasized here. Detroit was horrific last year, while we were very good. I anticipate we'll be much better than them in 2013 as well. Seems like a lot of people are overlooking this.

 

 

Yep. It killed Detroit so much last year they ended up having to play all those World Series games.

[Steve9347]

Yep. It killed Detroit so much last year they ended up having to play all those World Series games.

2012 World Series Championships by Team

 

Detroit Tigers: 0

Chicago White Sox: 0

 

2012 World Series Games Won by Team

 

Detroit Tigers: 0

Chicago White Sox: 0

Edited January 29, 2013 by Steve9347

[PorkChopExpress]

I think the Sox have the best pitching staff and defense in the division, and by quite a bit too. That alone is going to keep them in a lot of games. If they score at the clip they did last year, they're going to be in the race until the end.

 

 

Yeah, sure. The Sox starting pitching is better than Detroit's? And, by a lot?

 

Thanks for playing.

 

 

To be fair, wsf said "best pitching staff and defense," not "starting pitching."

 

That being said, Detroit's bullpen is suspect, so while they have a great starting five, they can't expect 9 innings out of them every time, except maybe Verlander. The Sox have a good starting rotation and a solid pen, but not sure if it's better overall than the Detroit staff considering their starting five. If you include defense, though, maybe it does put the Sox over the top. With Hunter joining Jackson in the outfield, though, defense improves there, and as bad as everyone insisted Cabrera and Fielder were at the corners, it just didn't feel like they were costing them many games. I haven't looked at defensive stats, though, so maybe I'm wrong. We certainly didn't challenge Cabrera much with our approach, though, and he didn't seem to have problems making the plays against us.

[Chicago White Sox]

Yep. It killed Detroit so much last year they ended up having to play all those World Series games.

LOL...we had a higher run differential than the Tigers last year. If the Tigers' offense and pitching staff were so much better than ours, as you've already implied, then how do you explain this?

 

Unfortunately, I don't expect a rational response, considering you just used a team making the World Series, despite underachieving all year, as proof their defense didn't suck.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Chicago White Sox

[WilburWilhelm]

LOL...we had a higher run differential than the Tigers last year. If the Tigers' offense and pitching staff were so much better than ours, as you've already implied, then how do you explain this?

 

Unfortunately, I don't expect a rational response, considering you just used a team making the World Series, despite underachieving all year, as proof their defense didn't suck.

 

Talk about an irrational response....In waht presure packed playoff games did Detroit's "horrendous" defense destroy them? Answer: none.

 

Secondly, it's quite obvious that Detroit has both a better pitching staff and better offense. The team had a horrible start and took time to jell and then easily blew past the overacheviving White Sox.

 

And, they actually won playoff games beating the Yankees for the second year in a row. So, yeah they are a lot better than the Sox after adding Hunter, getting Martinez back and having Sanchez for a year

 

The Sox rotation is FAR from solid. Peavy, Sale, Floyd (the guy Sox fans have been bashing for years), Quintana?, Santiago/Danks? C'mon. the only two guys there that Detroit would even be interested in would be Sale and Peavy. Only a cool aid drinker would even compare these two rotations.

Edited January 31, 2013 by WilburWilhelm

[Chicago White Sox]

Talk about an irrational response....

Thanks for playing. Now go back to b****ing and moaning about how the Sox are doomed and the Tigers are the greatest team in the history of baseball.

[Chicago White Sox]

Talk about an irrational response....In waht presure packed playoff games did Detroit's "horrendous" defense destroy them? Answer: none.

 

Secondly, it's quite obvious that Detroit has both a better pitching staff and better offense. The team had a horrible start and took time to jell and then easily blew past the overacheviving White Sox.

 

And, they actually won playoff games beating the Yankees for the second year in a row. So, yeah they are a lot better than the Sox after adding Hunter, getting Martinez back and having Sanchez for a year

 

The Sox rotation is FAR from solid. Peavy, Sale, Floyd (the guy Sox fans have been bashing for years), Quintana?, Santiago/Danks? C'mon. the only two guys there that Detroit would even be interested in would be Sale and Peavy. Only a cool aid drinker would even compare these two rotations.

So how did we have a higher run differential last year?

[WilburWilhelm]

So how did we have a higher run differential last year?

 

 

What a lame response. Where's your run differential trophy?

 

And, if you are going to respond to my comments please learn how to respond to the comments that I've actually made instead of fabricating them in your head.

Edited January 31, 2013 by WilburWilhelm

[Chicago White Sox]

What a lame response. Where's your run differential trophy?

What an ignorant response. Obviously you don't like using stats to try and tell the whole story, just wins and losses right?

 

Just admit you're wrong here, that we have a much better defense than the Tigers. I don't see why this is so difficult for you.

[Chicago White Sox]

And, if you are going to respond to my comments please learn how to respond to the comments that I've actually made instead of fabricating them in your head.

LOL...I've asked you the exact same question three times and you've dismissed it three times. Not sure what I could possibly be fabricating.

[WilburWilhelm]

What an ignorant response. Obviously you don't like using stats to try and tell the whole story, just wins and losses right?

 

Just admit you're wrong here, that we have a much better defense than the Tigers. I don't see why this is so difficult for you.

 

You're cracking me up dude. But, if you're under 12 years old I seriously apologize.

 

In your baseball world wins don't matter. It was about run differential. Now, it's all about defense.

 

But, you don't want to address the fact that the already far superior World Series appearing Detroit Tigers were better than the Sox prior to adding Torii Hunter, Victor Martinez and a full year of Anibal Sanchez? That somehow improves the Sox chances? Are you feeling alright?

 

And, for your information, I never stated that Detroit's defense was better than the Sox. Please try to repsond to actual comments.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

You're cracking me up dude. But, if you're under 12 years old I seriously apologize.

 

In your baseball world wins don't matter. It was about run differential. Now, it's all about defense.

 

But, you don't want to address the fact that the already far superior World Series appearing Detroit Tigers were better than the Sox prior to adding Torii Hunter, Victor Martinez and a full year of Anibal Sanchez? That somehow improves the Sox chances? Are you feeling alright?

 

And, for your information, I never stated that Detroit's defense was better than the Sox. Please try to repsond to actual comments.

 

Let's see, my original point was about defense, specifically how the White Sox's defense was far superior to the Tiger's defense in 2012 and how I expected it to remain a signicant advantage in 2013.

 

I think the defense part is what needs to be emphasized here. Detroit was horrific last year, while we were very good. I anticipate we'll be much better than them in 2013 as well. Seems like a lot of people are overlooking this.

 

Then you come along to discredit my opinion, using the Tigers' World Series appearance as proof the difference was minimal or non-existant.

 

Yep. It killed Detroit so much last year they ended up having to play all those World Series games.

 

I then use run differential to show that if the Tigers have a better pitching staff and offense, then the Sox must have significantly better defense. Again, my point was always about defense.

 

LOL...we had a higher run differential than the Tigers last year. If the Tigers' offense and pitching staff were so much better than ours, as you've already implied, then how do you explain this?

[Chicago White Sox]

In your baseball world wins don't matter. It was about run differential.

Of course wins matter. They're ultimately what get you into the playoffs and what you need to win a World Series. Unfortunately, wins don't tell the whole story, since output and outcomes aren't always equal.

 

Look, I'm not arguing that the Sox are the better team on paper. I think the Tigers are the favorites heading into 2013. I just think the two teams are a lot closer than a lot of people realize. A big part of that IMO is the defensive advantage we have, which was my original point all along.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I always have a hard time understanding why a Sox fan would argue so vehemently against the Sox , Wilbur Wilhelm ,though I do like the references to Wilbur and Hoyt the famed Sox knuckleballers. I mean it's all well and good if you don't want to drink the Kool-aid but the way you talk, it seems like you can't enjoy Sox baseball unless you think they have a chance.

[Cali]

I do agree a middle of the order lefty impact bat would be nice, but really, is ONE more lefty in the lineup really gonna make that much of a difference? Even if it was Hamilton he's still one guy. Paulie, Rios, Flowers, Beckham, Viciedo, Ramirez and Keppinger are all still righties, against all those other righty pitchers in the Central.

 

s*** if Robin is gonna be pitching this pipe dream of players striking out less and making more contact from players who strike out a lot and don't put the ball into play, why not just try and preach hitting righties better too? All three have an equally low chance of happening based on the personnel.

[Lillian]

I do agree a middle of the order lefty impact bat would be nice, but really, is ONE more lefty in the lineup really gonna make that much of a difference? Even if it was Hamilton he's still one guy. Paulie, Rios, Flowers, Beckham, Viciedo, Ramirez and Keppinger are all still righties, against all those other righty pitchers in the Central.

 

s*** if Robin is gonna be pitching this pipe dream of players striking out less and making more contact from players who strike out a lot and don't put the ball into play, why not just try and preach hitting righties better too? All three have an equally low chance of happening based on the personnel.

 

You may be on to something. The Sox could reap significant benefits by concentrating on a better approach against the right handed starters, who dominated most of their lineup.

I hope that they follow that suggestion, and that the Sox hitters respond.

Do you have any particular suggestions?

 

I like the idea of thinking up the middle versus hard throwing right handers like Verlander and Scherzer. Or even better, why not think taking the fast ball to the opposite field?

That allows the hitter more time to commit, and if he is offered an offspeed pitch, he won't be out in front, as he would be if he were anticipating the fast ball.

By simply not trying to pull ever pitch, our existing lineup might have a better chance at success.

[Lillian]

This article suggests that Ethier might be available:

 

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/art..._la&c_id=la

 

I don't know what it would take, and that contract is pretty expensive, but he is the kind of left handed #3 hitter who could really help versus RHP.

His split stats are among the most dramatically different of all the good hitters in the game. He really hits RHP well, and is terrible vs. LHP.

If Viciedo were not traded, he would make a great platoon with Ethier in LF. I suggested that once, some time ago, in another thread.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Lillian

[Chicago White Sox]

This article suggests that Ethier might be available:

 

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/art..._la&c_id=la

 

I don't know what it would take, and that contract is pretty expensive, but he is the kind of left handed #3 hitter who could really help versus RHP.

If Viciedo were not traded, he would make a great platoon with Ethier in LF. I suggested that once, some time ago, in another thread.

That would be one expensive platoon.

[southsider2k5]

This article suggests that Ethier might be available:

 

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/art..._la&c_id=la

 

I don't know what it would take, and that contract is pretty expensive, but he is the kind of left handed #3 hitter who could really help versus RHP.

His split stats are among the most dramatically different of all the good hitters in the game. He really hits RHP well, and is terrible vs. LHP.

If Viciedo were not traded, he would make a great platoon with Ethier in LF. I suggested that once, some time ago, in another thread.

 

Platoon? With Either? Come on.

[Lillian]

That would be one expensive platoon.

 

Yes, you're right, and I acknowledged that. However, he might be available without having to give up anything off the roster.

The Dodgers would like to acquire Bourn to play CF, and they have Alex Castellanos waiting in the wings.

 

Here are the combined 2012 stats of an Ethier/Viciedo platoon:

 

AVG .331 OBP .396 35 doubles 25 homers 83 RBI's in 458 total at bats.

That production might be worth the combined salaries of those two players. We don't have a player on the roster who came anywhere close to those numbers.

You could simply plug in those numbers in the #3 hole and you have a pretty potent offense.

 

Here's the lineup:

 

De Aza

Keppinger

Ethier/Viciedo

Konerko

Dunn

Rios

Ramirez

Flowers

Beckham

 

Viciedo is young enough that it wouldn't hurt him to platoon for a couple of seasons. Moreover, he could probably get some at bats spelling Konerko occasionally.

Paulie will likely need some rest. That would give Viciedo a few at bats versus RHP.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Lillian

[Kyyle23]

pretty sure Hahn already stated that Viciedo will not be platooning under any circumstances

[Lillian]

To those who might reject this idea out of hand, take a closer look.

If you acknowledge that the Sox need a higher OBP, a left handed middle of the order bat, and that there are few options available, then consider that they could

accomplish all of those goals, and perhaps do so without giving up anything off the MLB roster, which they can not really afford to do, with the exception of trading Thornton

If the Dodgers took Thornton, and his $5.5 million 2013 salary, plus that $1 million buy out at the end of the season, it might make Ethier's salary affordable

 

Ethier's contract is still the biggest question, regarding this suggestion. I think it may be worth it, but that is arguable, of course.

[Lillian]

pretty sure Hahn already stated that Viciedo will not be platooning under any circumstances

 

Well, maybe he ought to rethink that. Here are Viciedo's stats versus RHP last year:

AVG .225

OBP .271

SLG .380

Edited January 31, 2013 by Lillian

[ptatc]

Of course wins matter. They're ultimately what get you into the playoffs and what you need to win a World Series. Unfortunately, wins don't tell the whole story, since output and outcomes aren't always equal.

 

Look, I'm not arguing that the Sox are the better team on paper. I think the Tigers are the favorites heading into 2013. I just think the two teams are a lot closer than a lot of people realize. A big part of that IMO is the defensive advantage we have, which was my original point all along.

This is the problem I have with the advanced stats that many people cling to. They are fun to discuss and may tell you how someone performed but in the end they are meaningless. The World Series is not won by the individual stats of players. It's won by the teams who had the most wins in the playoffs (mostly the regular season as well). So in the end wins do tell the story of what is the most important, the rest is just fun discussions.

[Kyyle23]

Well, maybe he ought to rethink that. Here are Viciedo's stats versus RHP last year:

AVG .225

OBP .271

SLG .380

 

Yea, his first full year. So strange that he would struggle, nobody ever does that.