Peavy: Pressure got to White Sox

[YASNY]

Here's the link.

 

Watching the Sox approach the September fold, I could see that the pitching staff was self destructing. I could see Robin using the young guys after the Sept. call ups because Sale, Quintana were worn out and Liriano was just bad. I could also see the hitters pressing because they were seeing the staff run of of gas, too.

[justBLAZE]

Link doesn't work.

 

But yeah, they choked big time.

[southsider2k5]

I don't think it was pressure as much as injuries and very high workloads.

[ScottyDo]

I don't think it was pressure as much as injuries and very high workloads.

Yeah, I was gonna say something similar. We were just overly reliant on guys who were destined to fade in December, because they were either too young (Sale, Q) or too old (Paulie, AJ, Dunn). That doesn't seem like a pressure problem, just a team makeup problem. Sale, Q, Viciedo and Flowers are a year older now. Unfortunately, so are Konerko and Dunn. Either way, our pitching should be good and perhaps slightly less likely to falter down the stretch this year, unless you believe in the Verducci Correlation (effect is so very the wrong word).

[Balta1701]

Yeah, I was gonna say something similar. We were just overly reliant on guys who were destined to fade in December, because they were either too young (Sale, Q) or too old (Paulie, AJ, Dunn). That doesn't seem like a pressure problem, just a team makeup problem. Sale, Q, Viciedo and Flowers are a year older now. Unfortunately, so are Konerko and Dunn. Either way, our pitching should be good and perhaps slightly less likely to falter down the stretch this year, unless you believe in the Verducci Correlation (effect is so very the wrong word).

Another element in the guys wearing out was the weakness in the bench. I get why it happened...we traded a lot of the bench to replace injured starters, but that set the team up to be exhausted by the end.

[Soxfest]

I think alot had to do with a very young group of arms pitching more innings than they ever had and it caught up to them bigtime in September! I think the learning experience will be valuable going forward.

[Dick Allen]

Besides Youkilis who was the 3rd starting 3B,and AJ, and the later being typical of any team with a catcher who catches 110 plus games, I really don't know what other non pitchers you could say whose poor performance down the stretch was because they were worn out . The pitching staff was probably gassed, but the weak Sox bench really didn't play a role IMO with the late fade.

[southsider2k5]

Besides Youkilis who was the 3rd starting 3B,and AJ, and the later being typical of any team with a catcher who catches 110 plus games, I really don't know what other non pitchers you could say whose poor performance down the stretch was because they were worn out . The pitching staff was probably gassed, but the weak Sox bench really didn't play a role IMO with the late fade.

 

The top 4 hitters in the line up were all dealing with injuries.

[Dick Allen]

The top 4 hitters in the line up were all dealing with injuries.

Not many teams will overcome that. The whole bench thing is a catch 22. Ventura is dumb if he doesn't play his bench enough, but if they play, how many "this guy sucks, he needs to be DFA'd immediately" posts are in the game threads posted by the same people who call him dumb for not playing them enough? There is a reason some guys play very little. It's very rare to find someone who is great off the bench. They usually wind up a regular somewhere.

 

Jerry Manuel used to change the line up often, and he was hated as the "tinkerer". Ozzie had his "Sunday line ups" playing mutiple bench players. That didn't go over well. Ventura sticks to a pretty set line up. That doesn't go over well.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Dick Allen

[flavum]

The more we get away from last season, the more I think the Sox over-achieved until September caught up to them, and the Tigers under-achieved until their talent took over after the break. The better team won because that's what happens after 162 games.

[southsider2k5]

The more we get away from last season, the more I think the Sox over-achieved until September caught up to them, and the Tigers under-achieved until their talent took over after the break. The better team won because that's what happens after 162 games.

 

I feel like the Sox so-far underachieved during the end of Guillen's time here that we started to view that as a sort of new "normal" and adjusted our expectations for that. Once Ventura came in, and returned some fundementals to the teams, plus a lot less distractions, well everywhere, things changed back. I feel that I would put the Sox in the 85-88 win range for this year. The thing is I do feel the Tigers WAY underplayed where they should have been last year, despite the huge years they had as certain individuals. I feel like some regression is in store, but they might actually be a better TEAM this year. I'd put them up around the 95 win mark as of today.

[SI1020]

Caving in to pressure has been a hallmark of Sox teams dating back to the Stone Age when I first started rooting for them. I think a big reason for this is that almost always even good Sox teams had so little margin for failure. In the go go years the Yanks were top heavy with talent. The Sox were good but not quite good enough in 55 and 64. In 67 no hitting. In 72 the A's were better and the Sox had little depth. In 77 they tanked when the hitters cooled off. In 06 the pitching fell apart in the second half. Last year they didn't put the underachieving Tigers away when they had the chance and in September they were mentally and physically spent. Depth and bench strength can make all the difference in the marathon that is a MLB season. The Sox often come up a little short in that category, and when the pressure is on they tend to fade.

[LittleHurt05]

The more we get away from last season, the more I think the Sox over-achieved until September caught up to them, and the Tigers under-achieved until their talent took over after the break. The better team won because that's what happens after 162 games.

 

I agree. Also, they have the 3 best players in the division who stepped up their game late in the year. The Sox best players were either injured (PK) or pissing their pants against the main rival(Peavy).

[ewokpelts]

This is coming from Jake Peavy.

 

So I'll discount it COMPLETELY.

 

Shut up and pitch. And when I say pitch, I mean "pitch like you dont suck".

[southsider2k5]

This is coming from Jake Peavy.

 

So I'll discount it COMPLETELY.

 

Shut up and pitch. And when I say pitch, I mean "pitch like you dont suck".

 

Peavy hadn't thrown anything within 100 innings of what he threw last year since 2008. The guy was essentially conditioned to run 100 meters, and was asked to run a mile by the Sox.

[LittleHurt05]

Peavy hadn't thrown anything within 100 innings of what he threw last year since 2008. The guy was essentially conditioned to run 100 meters, and was asked to run a mile by the Sox.

 

It wasn't fatigue that made him pitch so badly against Detroit all season.

[witesoxfan]

This is coming from Jake Peavy.

 

So I'll discount it COMPLETELY.

 

Shut up and pitch. And when I say pitch, I mean "pitch like you dont suck".

 

pitch like you dont suck

 

16th best pitcher in baseball last year.

 

219 innings, 3.37 ERA

 

---

 

Pretty sure he, uhhhh, pitched like he didn't suck.

[nickofypres]

Youk, AJ, Konerko, Dunn are older players and Sale, Q, and Peavy either hadn't pitched that many innings in years, or ever, so I think that played a part.

 

Robin also seemed more hands on towards the end of the season that seemed to backfire (running into a lot of outs), etc.

 

Just need the young guys to mature, hopefully Peavy, Sale, and Q (if he doesn't regress, which he probably will) can last longer, and some of the vets can avoid injury I think the Sox can compete.

[witesoxfan]

It wasn't fatigue that made him pitch so badly against Detroit all season.

 

White Sox pitching vs Tigers:

 

4.90 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, .284/.366/.472/.839 splits

 

Notables:

 

Ohman, Danks, Humber, Omogrosso, and Liriano all sucked.

 

Floyd, Reed, Santiago, Quintana, and Jones were all very effective

 

Chris Sale - 3 GS, 6.00 ERA, 1.56 WHIP, 4 HR, 10 BB, 18 K, 18 IP

Jake Peavy - 6 GS, 5.63 ERA, 1.33 WHIP, 8 HR, 10 BB, 38 K, 38.1 IP

[southsider2k5]

White Sox pitching vs Tigers:

 

4.90 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, .284/.366/.472/.839 splits

 

Notables:

 

Ohman, Danks, Humber, Omogrosso, and Liriano all sucked.

 

Floyd, Reed, Santiago, Quintana, and Jones were all very effective

 

Chris Sale - 3 GS, 6.00 ERA, 1.56 WHIP, 4 HR, 10 BB, 18 K, 18 IP

Jake Peavy - 6 GS, 5.63 ERA, 1.33 WHIP, 8 HR, 10 BB, 38 K, 38.1 IP

 

Not to mention the Tigers f***ed up a lot of pitchers last year, and will do so again next year. For them it is all about their pen and their defense.

[LittleHurt05]

Not to mention the Tigers f***ed up a lot of pitchers last year, and will do so again next year. For them it is all about their pen and their defense.

 

So Peavy's performance vs DET is excused because Detroit's offense is just too good? Excuse me if I expect more from the team's #1 starter.

[nickofypres]

Peavy's gutless pitching vs Detroit always made my blood boil.

 

Seems like he would cruise till about the 5th then implode.

 

Sox really need to learn to beat Detroit and Kansas City.

[witesoxfan]

So Peavy's performance vs DET is excused because Detroit's offense is just too good? Excuse me if I expect more from the team's #1 starter.

 

He got a little unlucky (his peripherals were very good against the Tigers), but you're right, it doesn't excuse his poor performance. Perhaps it's a matter of advanced scouting and gameplan though, considering how poorly they pitched as a unit against the Tigers. As was pointed out, there were several pitchers who were absolutely terrible against the Tigers last year.

[ZionrulZ]

The more we get away from last season, the more I think the Sox over-achieved until September caught up to them, and the Tigers under-achieved until their talent took over after the break. The better team won because that's what happens after 162 games.

Right on.

[The Ginger Kid]

The thing is I do feel the Tigers WAY underplayed where they should have been last year, despite the huge years they had as certain individuals. I feel like some regression is in store, but they might actually be a better TEAM this year. I'd put them up around the 95 win mark as of today.

I'm surprised they didn't address the closer issue. Maybe there was nothing out there via trade to do it. I know they have some nice young arms, Roncon and Albuqueerque, but I think it could jump up and bite them in the ass again this season. I look for them to target a closer by the break. I think Hunter's production will be a non-factor given his age and I don't think VMart is going to the guy we saw in 2011. It's that Garcia who scares me.