LittleHurt05 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 1, 2013 -> 12:55 PM) *imagines Rolens are flying across the diamond after a throw to PK* If you catch his arm with the hand still gripping the ball, it's still an out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Feb 1, 2013 -> 03:32 PM) I like the wisdom in this post. I don't always trust this organization when it comes to prospects who aren't pitchers. Is Rios contract that expensive by today's non penny pitching Reinsdorf standards? Some of the adjustments made him one of the better players on the team. I'd take a chance on him being good this season. I think Rios is going to have a good year that's why I think he may very well be worth Olt. As has been said, Olt is not a sure thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 1, 2013 -> 06:09 PM) I think Rios is going to have a good year that's why I think he may very well be worth Olt. As has been said, Olt is not a sure thing. Rios is in fact highly likely to outperform Olt this year. That of course is not the only thing which determines a player's trade vale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 1, 2013 -> 07:28 PM) Rios is in fact highly likely to outperform Olt this year. That of course is not the only thing which determines a player's trade vale. Right, Texas might not want to wait on Olt given the fact that they've been close to a title the last 3 years and not gotten there. They need help now. Forget about Olt, which prospect do you think they'd be willing to give up for Rios? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 1, 2013 -> 07:43 PM) Right, Texas might not want to wait on Olt given the fact that they've been close to a title the last 3 years and not gotten there. They need help now. Forget about Olt, which prospect do you think they'd be willing to give up for Rios? Honestly, I think the Rangers would just go with solutions from within. They were barely willing to trade Olt for Justin Upton, I'm not sure why they'd trade him for Alex Rios. It would be quite awesome if they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 1, 2013 -> 08:27 PM) Honestly, I think the Rangers would just go with solutions from within. They were barely willing to trade Olt for Justin Upton, I'm not sure why they'd trade him for Alex Rios. It would be quite awesome if they did. It was going to take more than Olt to get Upton It's not been a great couple of offseasons for the Rangers, they've missed out on Greinke, Fielder, and Upton while losing Hamilton. Right now, I'd pick them behind the Angels and A's. They need to make a move with that vaunted farm system, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 2, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) It was going to take more than Olt to get Upton It's not been a great couple of offseasons for the Rangers, they've missed out on Greinke, Fielder, and Upton while losing Hamilton. Right now, I'd pick them behind the Angels and A's. They need to make a move with that vaunted farm system, IMO. So you think to win this year, it is imperative for the Rangers to acquire someone of Alex Rios' ilk, and on the other hand, for the White Sox to truly be going for it, trading Rios for Olt is precisely the move they should make. Doesn't seem too consistent. I would imagine if the Rangers are high on Olt, he actually might be the replacement in RF should they need one for 50 games. He played there a couple of times last season and has been working with one of their coaches on playing the OF. Edited February 2, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 2, 2013 -> 01:44 PM) So you think to win this year, it is imperative for the Rangers to acquire someone of Alex Rios' ilk, and on the other hand, for the White Sox to truly be going for it, trading Rios for Olt is precisely the move they should make. Doesn't seem too consistent. I would imagine if the Rangers are hi on Olt, he actually might be the replacement in RF should they need one for 50 games. He played there a couple of times last season and has been working with one of their coaches on playing the OF. I don't think there's a bat on the free agent or trade markets currently who would be better than Rios. If they want to move Olt to the OF, great good luck with that. All I know is, were I fan of the Rangers I'd want them to use that system right now. If they keep Olt and he doesn't produce right away I wouldn't want to hear any excuses from them. Edited February 2, 2013 by Marty34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 2, 2013 -> 03:04 PM) I don't think there's a bat on the free agent or trade markets currently who would be better than Rios. If they want to move Olt to the OF, great good luck with that. All I know is, were I fan of the Rangers I'd want them to use that system right now. If they keep Olt and he doesn't produce right away I wouldn't want to hear any excuses from them. Trading a guy like Olt for an expensive, unreliable piece under contract for 2 years is a high-risk way of using that system. If they're talking about "Sustained success", then some fraction of their young guys from that system have to be integrated in order to offset holding on to some of their expensive vets or making moves in the FA market. The real trick is to have it be the guy you hold onto that becomes successful and the guy you trade that is the bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 2, 2013 -> 02:06 PM) Trading a guy like Olt for an expensive, unreliable piece under contract for 2 years is a high-risk way of using that system. If they're talking about "Sustained success", then some fraction of their young guys from that system have to be integrated in order to offset holding on to some of their expensive vets or making moves in the FA market. The real trick is to have it be the guy you hold onto that becomes successful and the guy you trade that is the bust. Seems to me the Rangers are taking a bigger chance with Olt than they would with Rios. Olt has to produce right away or his trade value drops and he'll have to switch positions to do that. I think it's a case where the Rangers have held on to him a year too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 2, 2013 -> 03:44 PM) Seems to me the Rangers are taking a bigger chance with Olt than they would with Rios. Olt has to produce right away or his trade value drops and he'll have to switch positions to do that. I think it's a case where the Rangers have held on to him a year too long. Trade value isn't the only concern with a young guy, particularly with a team trying to establish a consistent record of being a contender. Give you a comparison. Moustakas and Hosmer have had their trade values fall significantly in the last year or two...but that hasn't stopped a whole lot of people from picking the Royals to finish ahead of the White Sox this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 2, 2013 -> 02:49 PM) Trade value isn't the only concern with a young guy, particularly with a team trying to establish a consistent record of being a contender. Give you a comparison. Moustakas and Hosmer have had their trade values fall significantly in the last year or two...but that hasn't stopped a whole lot of people from picking the Royals to finish ahead of the White Sox this year. Olt is the same age as Moustakas and has almost 900 less MLB plate appearances, he's a year older than Hosmer and has 1,000 less plate appearances than him. If Olt is going to have maximum value for the the Rangers he's going to have to hit soon. Otherwise, I believe they have made a mistake holding on to him this long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 2, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) Olt is the same age as Moustakas and has almost 900 less MLB plate appearances, he's a year older than Hosmer and has 1,000 less plate appearances than him. If Olt is going to have maximum value for the the Rangers he's going to have to hit soon. Otherwise, I believe they have made a mistake holding on to him this long. It's not a bad idea, but we're going to have to give up money (which we've been loath to do) and take a huge risk that Olt's the long-term solution at 3B. About 5 years ago, everyone in baseball wanted Brandon Wood and the Angels wouldn't give him up. It all depends on the scouting. But there's way Keppinger should be in the outfield...or profiles as a legit corner OF bat. This is the kind of trade that might need to wait at least half the season or into the offseason of 2013-14 to pull off...when Thompson, Mitchell or Walker might be ready to take a full-time spot. In the end, trading a huge salary, replacing it with a younger, cost-controlled player with upside and replacing traded veteran internally...that's the only way to successfully turn this roster around and still remain competitive, but there's obviously going to be some growing pains. As long as it's only 1-2 rookies per year, it can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 What it boils down to is this, are the Sox better with Beckham at 2d, Keppinger at 3rd and Rios in the OF, or Keppinger at 2d, Olt at 3d and Danks in the OF. I kinda like the latter, although Id prefer Carpenter (from Stl) and 2d, Keppinger at 3d.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Feb 4, 2013 -> 12:47 PM) What it boils down to is this, are the Sox better with Beckham at 2d, Keppinger at 3rd and Rios in the OF, or Keppinger at 2d, Olt at 3d and Danks in the OF. I kinda like the latter, although Id prefer Carpenter (from Stl) and 2d, Keppinger at 3d.... I'm confused where the Carpenter stuff is coming from, and who would be playing 2b in that scenario? Edited February 4, 2013 by ScottyDo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'm confused where the Carpenter stuff is coming from, and who would be playing 2b in that scenario? His name came up on bleacherreport.com and on White Sox Weekly this past Saturday. He is a LH hitting 2B from StL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Feb 4, 2013 -> 03:39 PM) His name came up on bleacherreport.com and on White Sox Weekly this past Saturday. He is a LH hitting 2B from StL. Isn't Bleacher Report completely fan-generated material? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Trade value isn't the only concern with a young guy, particularly with a team trying to establish a consistent record of being a contender. Give you a comparison. Moustakas and Hosmer have had their trade values fall significantly in the last year or two...but that hasn't stopped a whole lot of people from picking the Royals to finish ahead of the White Sox this year. I wish the Sox had (could get) Moustakas and/or Hosmer right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Isn't Bleacher Report completely fan-generated material? Yes, I think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Feb 4, 2013 -> 01:42 PM) I wish the Sox had (could get) Moustakas and/or Hosmer right now. Yeah, it'd be fun to have more people that we're tired of and talking about non-tendering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Yeah, it'd be fun to have more people that we're tired of and talking about non-tendering. Um...Moustakas and Hosmer would be in the top-3 best position players on the Sox right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Feb 4, 2013 -> 03:40 PM) Um...Moustakas and Hosmer would be in the top-3 best position players on the Sox right now. And we'd have a dozen threads reminding us how big of failures they were and trying to turn them into platoon players or replace them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Feb 4, 2013 -> 02:40 PM) Um...Moustakas and Hosmer would be in the top-3 best position players on the Sox right now. Um...certain people on this site (read: you) would look at their last two years, consider them failures, and be ready to send them off for others. The grass is always greener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Feb 4, 2013 -> 02:40 PM) Um...Moustakas and Hosmer would be in the top-3 best position players on the Sox right now. 2012 OPS: Konerko .857 Rios .850 Keppinger .806 Dunn .800 De Aza .760 Viciedo .744 Flowers .708 Moustakas .708 Hosmer .663 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 4, 2013 -> 05:53 PM) 2012 OPS: Konerko .857 Rios .850 Keppinger .806 Dunn .800 De Aza .760 Viciedo .744 Flowers .708 Moustakas .708 Hosmer .663 thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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