2013-2014 NFL Thread

[Balta1701]

Looks like it was a little over $14 million this year.

Was that before Flacco and Rodgers got extensions? That's definitely going to impact that number, but good point some of it is probably in the bonus

[Kyyle23]

The bears should sign the Texans recently discarded pot smokers

[Rowand44]

Was that before Flacco and Rodgers got extensions? That's definitely going to impact that number, but good point some of it is probably in the bonus

Joe Flacco just sucks.

[2nd_city_saint787]

This. As we all know the key to a cover 2 is getting pressure from the front 4. When that doesn't happen the whole defense gets exposed.

 

 

 

 

Oh man, you would get so much s*** for saying this over on talkbears. After I brought up that Webb was our best OLmen last year and the whole Bushrod is only a marginal upgrade over Webb article they put out those guys turned on PFF real quick.

 

I for one believe in the work they do. I had the chance to "intern" with PFF so I know how much time they put into analysis. They had me do one player participation spread and it took me nearly 8 hours.

 

Just for s***s and giggles I wanna throw these stats at them and watch their heads explode.

 

 

What a surprise...

 

Yeah, I'm not buying it. Big shocker. Just doesn't pass the eye test. I'm guessing whoever does their stats and watches the Bears games is a Packer fan.

 

the line is way better than last year if you use the eye test. It has room to grow, and PFF is just a tool to help with evaluation, not a bible.

 

[GoodAsGould]

What a surprise...

 

It is hard to trust stats when it comes to offensive linemen, also it doesn't seem like our run defense has been that great and if anything I'd rate it below our pass defense... but these people all know more than me so I won't discredit it by any means.

[DrunkBomber]

To say our offensive line is worse this year than last year is laughable.

[Jake]

Nobody said that, it's actually much better. J'Marcus Webb rated as our best, and his aggregate rating over 16 games would put him as our 5th best this year.

 

PFF does say, though, that our line is still bad at pass blocking.

 

Jay was "under pressure" in 38.7% of his dropbacks this year. Peyton Manning (whose line is on the opposite end of the spectrum) was under pressure on 21% of dropbacks. This is actually a portion of a percent higher than the past two years, but much lower than 2010 when it was off the charts (43%). He was at 22% in Denver as well, btw, and 28% in his first year in Chi-town.

 

Another way to look at it is pass blocking efficiency for our line. On 45.7% of dropbacks, Jay was hurried, hit, or sacked. 22% for Manning. What might really blow your mind is that almost half these hurries/hits/sacks came from Jordan Mills. Replace Mills with an average player (roughly the level of play from Webb last year, fwiw) and our pass blocking rating goes to middle of the pack for the league. This statistic is even worse than Arizona, whose PFF rating is actually much worse than ours. PFF gives relative weights to hurries, hits, and sacks. Jay has been hit and sacked relatively little given the amount of pressures and hurries he's had, which is likely due to scheme and decision-making.

 

Our line seems better because 1. The majority of the bad is concentrated on one player and 2. we have an o-coordinator that can scheme to cover up our weaknesses.

[Kyyle23]

Nobody said that, it's actually much better. J'Marcus Webb rated as our best, and his aggregate rating over 16 games would put him as our 5th best this year.

 

PFF does say, though, that our line is still bad at pass blocking.

 

Jay was "under pressure" in 38.7% of his dropbacks this year. Peyton Manning (whose line is on the opposite end of the spectrum) was under pressure on 21% of dropbacks. This is actually a portion of a percent higher than the past two years, but much lower than 2010 when it was off the charts (43%). He was at 22% in Denver as well, btw, and 28% in his first year in Chi-town.

 

Another way to look at it is pass blocking efficiency for our line. On 45.7% of dropbacks, Jay was hurried, hit, or sacked. 22% for Manning. What might really blow your mind is that almost half these hurries/hits/sacks came from Jordan Mills. Replace Mills with an average player (roughly the level of play from Webb last year, fwiw) and our pass blocking rating goes to middle of the pack for the league. This statistic is even worse than Arizona, whose PFF rating is actually much worse than ours. PFF gives relative weights to hurries, hits, and sacks. Jay has been hit and sacked relatively little given the amount of pressures and hurries he's had, which is likely due to scheme and decision-making.

 

Our line seems better because 1. The majority of the bad is concentrated on one player and 2. we have an o-coordinator that can scheme to cover up our weaknesses.

 

Why would you compare Jay to Manning in this situation? Peyton has long been one of the absolute best at getting rid of the ball extremely fast and not taking sacks, to compare the Bears new line to his veteran line just seems disingenuous in comparison. What is the average? How much have the bears improved from last year to this year?

 

And putting the spotlight on Mills doesnt seem fair either. For a kid that wasnt even expected to play, having him out there not false starting and holding his own while he learns on the job is pretty impressive to me.

 

[StrangeSox]

Why would you compare Jay to Manning in this situation? Peyton has long been one of the absolute best at getting rid of the ball extremely fast and not taking sacks, to compare the Bears new line to his veteran line just seems disingenuous in comparison. What is the average? How much have the bears improved from last year to this year?

 

And putting the spotlight on Mills doesnt seem fair either. For a kid that wasnt even expected to play, having him out there not false starting and holding his own while he learns on the job is pretty impressive to me.

 

That alone has been such a huge improvement and unexpected given that we have two rookies on the right side.

[witesoxfan]

It's hard to find a perfect comparison for Manziel, the best I've thought of is Colt McCoy though Colt didn't run as much. I like Johnny more than pretty much everyone but I don't see him being a successful NFL starter.

 

Player A: 800 for 1192, 67.1%, 10366 yards, 8.7 Y/A, 78 TD, 17 INT, 158.9 Rating; 528 ATT, 2254 YDS, 4.3 Y/A, 33 TD

Manziel: 454 for 651, 69.7%, 5995 yards, 9.2 Y/A, 44 TD, 16 INT, 164.5 Rating; 285 ATT, 1885 YDS, 6.6 Y/A, 27 TD

 

Manziel looks pretty good.

 

What I'm wondering is, if Robert Griffin III was good enough to be drafted 2nd overall, why do we believe that Manziel can't play?

 

Manziel is going to have to become a lot more judicious with his throws if he wants to make it in the NFL.

 

This I do not disagree with.

[cabiness42]

Player A: 800 for 1192, 67.1%, 10366 yards, 8.7 Y/A, 78 TD, 17 INT, 158.9 Rating; 528 ATT, 2254 YDS, 4.3 Y/A, 33 TD

Manziel: 454 for 651, 69.7%, 5995 yards, 9.2 Y/A, 44 TD, 16 INT, 164.5 Rating; 285 ATT, 1885 YDS, 6.6 Y/A, 27 TD

 

Manziel looks pretty good.

 

What I'm wondering is, if Robert Griffin III was good enough to be drafted 2nd overall, why do we believe that Manziel can't play?

 

 

 

This I do not disagree with.

 

I think Manziel is a train wreck because of his attitude, not because of his abilities. He has Ryan Leaf II written all over him. There has never been any question I've seen about RGIII's attitude.

[GoSox05]

It's also because of his ability. He is probably not even 6 foot tall. Has a weak arm and a small frame.

 

When has that ever worked in the NFL?

[Harry Chappas]

I think Jay is part of the reason the stats on the offensive line look bad. I think he has a slow release and takes too much time to make decisions and while he has good footwork he does not necessarily move well in the pocket to avoid pressure.

 

Football more than any other sport is coaching. Coaching can improve a team greatly. I don't know why Trestman's trajectory is what it is but he seems early on like a Mike McCarthy type that has a system that breeds offensive success. I laos think many people give guys credit because they are working in teh NFL and they may not necessarily be that good (i.e Schiano).

 

Lovie lost his job because he could not figure out how to get someone that could run an offense. He also focused on defense only and the offense blew. His death blow was probably the input he had on Shea McClellan, that reeks of a bad Lovie player evaluation (see Jaron Gilbert).

 

I think a draft and offseason with a defensive slant and things will look better.

 

Also as I pointed out earlier football is all about coaching and Mel Tucker trying to change to the Bears scheme may not have been a good idea after all.

 

 

 

 

[witesoxfan]

It's also because of his ability. He is probably not even 6 foot tall. Has a weak arm and a small frame.

 

When has that ever worked in the NFL?

 

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees. Beyond that, Manziel's listed at 6'1", 210. I also don't think he has a weak arm whatsoever.

 

Attitude is a legitimate concern, but I think that's a college kid being a college kid but I think a lot of it has been blown out of proportion. It would be necessary to investigate in depth.

[GoSox05]

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees. Beyond that, Manziel's listed at 6'1", 210. I also don't think he has a weak arm whatsoever.

 

Attitude is a legitimate concern, but I think that's a college kid being a college kid but I think a lot of it has been blown out of proportion. It would be necessary to investigate in depth.

 

 

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees don't have weak arms. Even if those two are comparable, they are just two players. Brees is a once in a lifetime hall of fame talent, who you can't compare anyone to. Wilson has been good, but not great. Probably has been a better runner than QB.

 

 

Also if Manziel is listed by Texas A & M at 6'1 200, you can guarantee he isn't 6'1 200.

[Kyyle23]

I think Jay is part of the reason the stats on the offensive line look bad. I think he has a slow release and takes too much time to make decisions and while he has good footwork he does not necessarily move well in the pocket to avoid pressure.

 

Football more than any other sport is coaching. Coaching can improve a team greatly. I don't know why Trestman's trajectory is what it is but he seems early on like a Mike McCarthy type that has a system that breeds offensive success. I laos think many people give guys credit because they are working in teh NFL and they may not necessarily be that good (i.e Schiano).

 

Lovie lost his job because he could not figure out how to get someone that could run an offense. He also focused on defense only and the offense blew. His death blow was probably the input he had on Shea McClellan, that reeks of a bad Lovie player evaluation (see Jaron Gilbert).

 

I think a draft and offseason with a defensive slant and things will look better.

 

Also as I pointed out earlier football is all about coaching and Mel Tucker trying to change to the Bears scheme may not have been a good idea after all.

 

He tried to keep it the same as much as possible, even keeping the same verbage in the calls. This was one of the things that was talked about a lot in the preseason.

[witesoxfan]

Russell Wilson and Drew Brees don't have weak arms. Even if those two are comparable, they are just two players. Brees is a once in a lifetime hall of fame talent, who you can't compare anyone to. Wilson has been good, but not great. Probably has been a better runner than QB.

 

 

Also if Manziel is listed by Texas A & M at 6'1 200, you can guarantee he isn't 6'1 200.

 

He's not listed as 6'1 200, he's listed at 6'1 210. Russell Wilson was listed as 5'11 210 on Wisconsin's website. They wouldn't jack up his height by like 3 inches, which is essentially what you're saying. He's probably like 6'1/2" and they rounded up.

 

Manziel shows composure in the pocket, has proven to be incredibly accurate, sees the field well, and shows good enough arm strength. He's also proven to be an incredibly effective runner as well. And, beyond any of that, he's about the only QB who's ever lit up the Alabama defense. That's an NFL-style defense with NFL caliber prospects all over the place.

 

And Brees does have a pretty weak arm. He's just incredibly accurate.

[Soxbadger]

He's not listed as 6'1 200, he's listed at 6'1 210. Russell Wilson was listed as 5'11 210 on Wisconsin's website. They wouldn't jack up his height by like 3 inches, which is essentially what you're saying. He's probably like 6'1/2" and they rounded up.

 

Manziel shows composure in the pocket, has proven to be incredibly accurate, sees the field well, and shows good enough arm strength. He's also proven to be an incredibly effective runner as well. And, beyond any of that, he's about the only QB who's ever lit up the Alabama defense. That's an NFL-style defense with NFL caliber prospects all over the place.

 

And Brees does have a pretty weak arm. He's just incredibly accurate.

 

Manziel could be good in the NFL. You dont put up those type of stats if you dont have some talent. The problem, like I said earlier, is that many of his stats come from broken plays and some of those throws are pretty dangerous.

 

I could see a team like the Eagles take a chance.

[RockRaines]

He's not listed as 6'1 200, he's listed at 6'1 210. Russell Wilson was listed as 5'11 210 on Wisconsin's website. They wouldn't jack up his height by like 3 inches, which is essentially what you're saying. He's probably like 6'1/2" and they rounded up.

 

Manziel shows composure in the pocket, has proven to be incredibly accurate, sees the field well, and shows good enough arm strength. He's also proven to be an incredibly effective runner as well. And, beyond any of that, he's about the only QB who's ever lit up the Alabama defense. That's an NFL-style defense with NFL caliber prospects all over the place.

 

And Brees does have a pretty weak arm. He's just incredibly accurate.

Brees has a stronger arm than Manziel and Wilson's is better than both. Manziel does his damage improvising in a wide open spread system. He reminds me alot of Troy Smith.

[Harry Chappas]

He tried to keep it the same as much as possible, even keeping the same verbage in the calls. This was one of the things that was talked about a lot in the preseason.

 

Yes which everyone (me included) thought was good thing but in hindsight may not have been a good thing after all.

[Chisoxfn]

My main issue with those stats is that the run blocking has looked pretty bad quite a bit this season, imo. Also, for those complaining about Cutlers slow release, hasn't he been the 9th quickest QB at getting rid of the ball or something like that this year?

[iamshack]

Manziel could be good in the NFL. You dont put up those type of stats if you dont have some talent. The problem, like I said earlier, is that many of his stats come from broken plays and some of those throws are pretty dangerous.

 

I could see a team like the Eagles take a chance.

Marcus Mariota

Edited October 23, 2013 by iamshack

[Soxbadger]

Marcus Mariota

 

Some places are projecting him top 5, so the Eagles may have to pay to get him.

[Rowand44]

Johnny has a weak arm, he's not going to be able to make some NFL throws unless he has Drew Brees like accuracy, which he doesn't have. And Russell Wilson is not only more accurate of a thrower but also has about three times the arm strength that Manziel has. Obviously we'll see but I just don't think the physical tools are there for Johnny to be a successful starter in the NFL.

[Rowand44]

Some places are projecting him top 5, so the Eagles may have to pay to get him.

Ya, people are saying he's right on Bridgewater's heals now for the top qb in the class.