2013-2014 NFL Thread

[GoSox05]

Anyone happen to hear Mike & Mike this morning? I heard that Golic and Lebatard got into it about the Incognito/Martin thing. I am guessing Golic was advocating on behalf of the "need to toughen up the players" side of things...

 

 

Golic thinks the only way this could have been solved was Martin punching Incognito.

 

 

[iamshack]

Sort of. Golic was not at all excusing the stuff Incognito did, but he was saying that if Martin really had the stuff of an NFL player, he would have beat the living s*** out of Incognito instead of just quitting.

Ahh....doesn't surprise me...

 

I used to think Lebatard was just Heat/Miami apologist, but after listening to his show the last few weeks, I actually find him to be pretty intelligent, despite his annoying habit of over-enunciating even the shortest of words....

 

I wonder how Golic would have felt about things if his own son had done the same as Martin...

Edited November 6, 2013 by iamshack

[witesoxfan]

Sort of. Golic was not at all excusing the stuff Incognito did, but he was saying that if Martin really had the stuff of an NFL player, he would have beat the living s*** out of Incognito instead of just quitting.

 

I don't buy that and had that argument with my brother-in-law. First and foremost, guards typically have to be and are physically stronger than tackles. Tackles have to be quick on their feet. So right there alone you have the chance for Incognito to kick the crap out of him. Secondly, and probably more importantly, Incognito was probably leading the charge, but other guys were probably backing him in the toughening up. In Martin's mind, going after Incognito means going after 3-5 guys. He'd be stupid to do that too.

[iamshack]

I don't buy that and had that argument with my brother-in-law. First and foremost, guards typically have to be and are physically stronger than tackles. Tackles have to be quick on their feet. So right there alone you have the chance for Incognito to kick the crap out of him. Secondly, and probably more importantly, Incognito was probably leading the charge, but other guys were probably backing him in the toughening up. In Martin's mind, going after Incognito means going after 3-5 guys. He'd be stupid to do that too.

Just because Martin is a football player does not make him, by default, someone that has the capacity to go around beating the s*** out of people, even those that say despicable things to him.Why do so many people assume that the two things are somehow interchangeable?

 

And before someone says "He's a football player...it is his job to beat the s*** out of people," that is simply not the same.

[StrangeSox]

Just because Martin is a football player does not make him, by default, someone that has the capacity to go around beating the s*** out of people, even those that say despicable things to him.Why do so many people assume that the two things are somehow interchangeable?

 

And before someone says "He's a football player...it is his job to beat the s*** out of people," that is simply not the same.

 

I'm not sure why grown men should be settling things by punching each other in the face anyway. I'm going to steal this too: "On the streets of Chicago violently confronting someone for disrespecting you is evidence of a 'culture of pathology.' In the NFL it is evidence of handling things 'the right way.'"

 

What I've heard is that Martin was a quiet, soft-spoken introvert. He's probably the type to avoid confrontation and wouldn't go looking to punch people in the face because they're douchebags. And that says nothing about his ability to play in the NFL.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2013 by StrangeSox

[Dick Allen]

Even if Martin needed "toughening up", I think it's pretty sad if anyone thinks they way that was supposed to be accomplished actually makes one "tougher".

How is wanting to punch out Incognito going to make Martin tougher? What if he couldn't take the hazing anymore and actually went farther than throwing a punch?

Being in a fraternity in college, I am very familiar with hazing, and the few individuals who seem to actually live to haze people. I agree, a lot of it is harmless, but there is always someone around willing to take it to another level. It's beyond stupid IMO. Just cut it all out before something really tragic happens.

[iamshack]

I'm not sure why grown men should be settling things by punching each other in the face anyway.

 

What I've heard is that Martin was a quiet, soft-spoken introvert. He's probably the type to avoid confrontation and wouldn't go looking to punch people in the face because they're douchebags. And that says nothing about his ability to play in the NFL.

I watched the 30 for 30 last night on ESPN about Bernard King and Ernie Grunfeld.

 

King was from Brooklyn and went to the University of Tennessee in the mid-'70's. He was not treated particularly well by members of the community, especially by the Knoxville Police Department, and it led him to drink excessively. He was a loner off the court, despite being the star of the basketball program, along with Grunfeld. Yet no one will deny that ON the court, he had a killer instinct and a very stong persona. It was described as "flipping the switch" once the game began.

 

King's troubles continued during his career in the NBA.

 

I think this is a perfect illustration that someone can be an incredible player and competitor within the confines of the game, but be a totally different person off the court.

[Steve9347]

Its just Martin is a colossal p**** undoubtedly raised to be a sensitive little b**** who first ran from the team then went to the media selling out everyone. Luckily he'll never play in the NFL again, I have no sympathy for someone like that.

Yes, because being called a half-n and harassed constantly should have a place in any culture. You're sick.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Steve9347

[StrangeSox]

I can't imagine the reaction from certain people being positive if Martin had instead punched Incognito in the face, anyway. Who's this scrub punching a much better veteran player just because he can't take some hazing?!

 

Incognito and the assholes who supported and enabled him deserve to be sold out. I don't know why we should have sympathy for people like that or their apologists.

[TaylorStSox]

It means everything. Its pretty simple:

 

Player A and Player B wont exist on the same team.

 

Q1: Are either of these guys in imminent danger of going to jail? If so, cut him. If neither, go to Q2. If both, Welcome to Pro Football.

Q2: Which of these two players gives my team, whos having a surprising playoff run, a better chance to win and a better chance for all of us to keep our jobs? Pick that guy and cut the other.

 

Its just Martin is a colossal p**** undoubtedly raised to be a sensitive little b**** who first ran from the team then went to the media selling out everyone. Luckily he'll never play in the NFL again, I have no sympathy for someone like that.

 

Snitches get stitches! Thug life! Amirite?

[Jake]

If Martin has indeed tried to kill himself before, it is unreasonable to expect him to start being a tough guy and self-advocating against one of the biggest douchebags in the world. Martin may not have the best psyche in the world to handle the rigor of the NFL, but nobody should have to deal with what he was getting and I'd imagine he would have been fine without antagonists like Incognito and whoever else was involved.

[pettie4sox]

Man Duke, I would love to see you get Martin's treatment and act like that's OK. I think you're a putting on a front just to get a reaction out of people.

[southsider2k5]

Man Duke, I would love to see you get Martin's treatment and act like that's OK. I think you're a putting on a front just to get a reaction out of people.

 

This is the same guy who can't handle a car passing him on the right side when he is driving his truck. Of course it is a front.

[Kyyle23]

If Martin has indeed tried to kill himself before, it is unreasonable to expect him to start being a tough guy and self-advocating against one of the biggest douchebags in the world. Martin may not have the best psyche in the world to handle the rigor of the NFL, but nobody should have to deal with what he was getting and I'd imagine he would have been fine without antagonists like Incognito and whoever else was involved.

 

Incognito Sr putting those suicide attempts out there in the public is pretty low, if they are in fact true.

 

And if they are in fact, true, then Jr and the entire Dolphins coaching staff that suggested he needs to be toughened up need to get suspended. What happens if it comes out that Martin has had head trauma and is suffering from CTE, leading to some sort of depression that leads to suicidal thoughts/attempts?

 

That would be a collossal PR clusterf*** for the NFL

[iamshack]

Incognito Sr putting those suicide attempts out there in the public is pretty low, if they are in fact true.

 

And if they are in fact, true, then Jr and the entire Dolphins coaching staff that suggested he needs to be toughened up need to get suspended. What happens if it comes out that Martin has had head trauma and is suffering from CTE, leading to some sort of depression that leads to suicidal thoughts/attempts?

 

That would be a collossal PR clusterf*** for the NFL

Yeah, I just think this is the last thing the NFL needs right now. Considering the lengths they've gone to promote player safety, they need to handle this very sharply and swiftly.

[southsider2k5]

Incognito Sr putting those suicide attempts out there in the public is pretty low, if they are in fact true.

 

And if they are in fact, true, then Jr and the entire Dolphins coaching staff that suggested he needs to be toughened up need to get suspended. What happens if it comes out that Martin has had head trauma and is suffering from CTE, leading to some sort of depression that leads to suicidal thoughts/attempts?

 

That would be a collossal PR clusterf*** for the NFL

 

If he has played football for as long as most NFLers his age have, he already has CTE.

[Texsox]

Oh come on. This is the ESPN spin machine at work. This isn't a nightmare. The Dolphins (and NFL) aren't losing money on this thing. It's just another story about professional players being assholes.

 

Who honestly thinks less of the NFL or the Dolphins because of this? It was one asshole and one victim. Without more, case closed. Even if the dolphins coaches asked Icognito to toughen Martin up, they didn't know he was going to be a racist asshole about it or go about it in the way that he did.

 

Isn't this the same as Ozzie insulting the Cuban community? Do you really want a player using the word n*****? What does that say to a portion of your customers who have felt the sting of that word if you do nothing and allow the man to continue to play?

 

Also, workplace rules and laws should apply, they are in place to protect people from this b.s. Imagine if companies are allowed to exempt themselves because outsiders don't understand the culture. I understand some flexibility between an insurance office, an NFL locker room, and an antique store. But this crosses over any reasonable boundary one would set.

[Jenksismyhero]

Isn't this the same as Ozzie insulting the Cuban community? Do you really want a player using the word n*****? What does that say to a portion of your customers who have felt the sting of that word if you do nothing and allow the man to continue to play?

 

Also, workplace rules and laws should apply, they are in place to protect people from this b.s. Imagine if companies are allowed to exempt themselves because outsiders don't understand the culture. I understand some flexibility between an insurance office, an NFL locker room, and an antique store. But this crosses over any reasonable boundary one would set.

 

Not really because Ozzie was being derogatory to a major portion of the community that the Marlins wanted in the seats. And as soon this stuff came out Incognito was off the team.

[Kyyle23]

Not really because Ozzie was being derogatory to a major portion of the community that the Marlins wanted in the seats. And as soon this stuff came out Incognito was off the team.

 

Ozzie was suspended pretty quickly, and eventually it cost him his job

[Dick Allen]

If Martin really was tough, after this harassment, he should have picked up a gun and shot Incognito right in the face. That would have been G. I'm sure Incognito's dad would have shown some respect.

 

The fact that Incognito's dad is mentioning Martin being suicidal makes this even more dispicable.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Hell, I'm just quoting the whole post/interview.

Chicago Bears receiver Brandon Marshall views the situation taking place in Miami involving Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin as more evidence the culture of the NFL needs to change.

 

“You can’t show that you’re hurt. You can’t show any pain,” Marshall said of the NFL’s culture of machismo. “So for a guy that comes in the locker room and he shows a little vulnerability, that’s a problem. So that’s what I mean by the culture of the NFL, and that’s what we have to change.”

 

Martin recently checked into a South Florida hospital to be treated for emotional distress that led to him leaving the team last week, according to ESPN’s Chris Mortensen, who also reported the trip to the hospital was related to the offensive tackle’s belief that he had been targeted during a sustained level of harassment from teammates, including Incognito.

 

Marshall

The Dolphins suspended Incognito on Sunday for conduct detrimental to the team after reps for Martin provided the team voicemail and text evidence of the alleged harassment.

 

Having played two seasons with Incognito on the Dolphins (2010 and 2011), Marshall expressed that “you have to be sensitive to the kid, Martin, and what he’s going through” because it’s “a serious situation.” But the receiver also said the NFL shouldn’t ban Incognito, and that hazing occurs “in every locker room.”

 

“Look at it from this standpoint. Take a little boy and a little girl. The little boy falls down, and the first thing we say as parents: ‘Get up, shake it off. You’ll be OK, don’t cry.’ When the girl falls down, what do we say? ‘It’s gonna be OK,’” Marshall explained. “We validate their feelings. So right there from that moment, we’re teaching our men to mask their feelings, don’t show their emotions. And it’s that times 100 with football players. So what’s going on in Miami, it goes on in every locker room. But it’s time for us to start talking, maybe have some group sessions where guys sit down and talk about what’s going on off the field or what’s going on in the building and not mask everything because the [longer] it goes untreated, the worse it gets. Unfortunately you see this kid, Martin, he’s been harboring these feelings for the past two years and now he’s at a boiling point where he has to walk out. It’s a good thing that it didn’t escalate to something more serious. But it’s time for us to take a look at some things that we can do that are proactive and start with some group sessions or group therapy or other innovative things out there.”

 

An outspoken advocate for mental health awareness, Marshall also added some context to one of the significant allegations being reviewed in the Miami situation. Sources told ESPN that Incognito convinced Martin to contribute $15,000 to help pay for a trip to Las Vegas last summer for a group of teammates, despite the offensive tackle’s preference to not travel with the team. Martin paid the $15,000, fearing consequences if he did not hand over the money, sources told ESPN.

 

Marshall said that a trip to Las Vegas is a yearly tradition of Miami’s offensive linemen, one that existed before Incognito ever became a Dolphin.

 

“I would say this about Richie: I was there in Miami, and those guys have been doing that. The offensive linemen had been doing that before Richie got there. It’s a tradition down in Miami that the offensive linemen go to Vegas,” Marshall said. “I was actually invited to go to a trip, and the rookies, they were supposed to pick up a big piece of the cost. But the veterans would chip in. [Dolphins center Mike] Pouncey paid his part of it, and didn’t even get on the flight. He ended up meeting the guys out there. There are some things out there where that’s what I mean by [saying], ‘It’s in every locker room.’ That had been there before Richie was there, and I was around that. So I don’t think there were any ill feelings. It’s just a part of the tradition that was there.”

 

Marshall mentioned that he keeps in contact with Incognito and enjoyed playing with the guard during their days together in Miami. Marshall also discussed the racially charged text messages allegedly sent from Incognito to Martin.

 

In an NFL locker room, racist remarks cut both ways, he said.

 

“It was kind of disturbing to see some of the things that were said, but I also know that it’s not an isolated incident. It’s unfortunately the culture of the NFL," Marshall said. "We walk around saying the N-word as black players, and it’s not right. We get offended when the white player says it. That’s on him and where his heart’s at when he says it. It doesn’t make it right. But we can’t jump down a guy’s throat because he’s saying it and he’s white. The black guys are saying it, too; doesn’t make it right. People are capable of change. That’s something Richie has to deal with. I’m not condoning that. But people do things and say things that are hurtful. That’s something that Richie has to deal with.”

[witesoxfan]

[slow clap]

[Kyyle23]

I like what he said when you see it all. B&B took a snippet of the conversation and made it look like Marshall was condoning Incognito

[Quin]

Marshall is like a different man since coming to Chicago.

[Jake]

Someone should explain to Marshall about how important it is that black folks took ownership of that word. It's a big part of overcoming oppression. I think it is best if it dies out eventually, but it is a significant piece of taking back your own identity.