Soxbadger Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:17 PM) No, it isn't. You're just being silly now. eta: you could very well be right about McCown being much smarter than Cutler, but let's see some evidence beyond TD:INT and "don't you watch the games?!" I realize that what I'm asking for would be a lengthy piece for a professional sports writer and would take a ton of effort to produce, though. Unfortunately I dont have the time to go through every single play call this season and show you what Ive seen. What I can say is that you can go back to the first game McCown played and I was making these comments. I could list all the little things that I notice about Cutler/McCown and why that supports my opinion, but it really is nothing more than reading tea leaves. Nobodies have had seasons better than hall of fame players for unexplainable reasons or just due to natural variance. All I can say is that youd think for $10mil+ more per year it wouldnt even be up for argument. I dont really know. I used to be fine with Cutler, now I just think the more prudent move may be to spend the money elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:40 PM) I've always been a big fan of Cutler. I think I may just be a bigger fan of Trestman Even the really really stupid "body language" debate of Cutler is gone with how much more it seems he is engaged with this team, the coach and the offensive playcalls. I really get the impression that Trestman appeals to QB's, which is key in today's NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:38 PM) You are right, a game against Vikings shows who is the better QB. Flacco vs. Vikings - 64.2 Romo vs. Vikings - 90.1 Eli vs. Vikings - 81.1 Big Ben vs. Vikings - 90.6 Stafford vs. Vikings - 96.8 I guess McCown is also a better QB than Flacco, Romo, Eli Manning, Big Ben, & Stafford. Maybe the Bears should ask for a straight up trade, Stafford for McCown? Interestingly Im not sure all of those teams are happy about how much they are paying those QBs this year. File under things that may you go hmmmmmmm. Edited December 10, 2013 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:46 PM) Interestingly Im not sure all of those teams are happy about how much they paying those QBs this year. File under things that may you go hmmmmmmm. But nobody's going to be beating down McCown's door with starting QB offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:46 PM) Interestingly Im not sure all of those teams are happy about how much they are paying those QBs this year. File under things that may you go hmmmmmmm. If only they had been lucky enough to acquire Josh McCown before paying those QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:49 PM) But nobody's going to be beating down McCown's door with starting QB offers. He may get a shot to compete for a starting job, teams would be stupid not to let him. That being said, its not really relevant to whether its a good idea to spend $15mil plus on a single player in system with a salary cap. Which is ultimately the point of this discussion. It doesnt matter if Cutler is better than McCown, it matters if Cutler is worth $15mil per season to the Bears in a salary cap age. I used to think yes, Im starting to think no. (edit) I do like how the argument of Cutler apologists is to attack McCown. How does McCown being bad/good/indifferent have anything to do with whether Cutler (or any player) is worth $15mil per season? Especially given how many injuries there are in football. Edited December 10, 2013 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:55 PM) He may get a shot to compete for a starting job, teams would be stupid not to let him. That being said, its not really relevant to whether its a good idea to spend $15mil plus on a single player in system with a salary cap. Which is ultimately the point of this discussion. It doesnt matter if Cutler is better than McCown, it matters if Cutler is worth $15mil per season to the Bears in a salary cap age. I used to think yes, Im starting to think no. Im curious what you deem as fair value for Cutler. In a vacuum, knowing what you know now, what would you be willing to spend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 How about f*** Jay Cutler for making this decision hard. What a colossal disappointment from initial expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:57 PM) Im curious what you deem as fair value for Cutler. In a vacuum, knowing what you know now, what would you be willing to spend? Ideally Id like to give him $7-8 mil with incentives for 4-5 years. Id be fine with $10mil per year with possible incentives to make it up to $15. Anything over $12mil and Id probably go in another direction. Unless my team was already fine and I had money to spend and then Id probably give him $15-20 with the contract being styled so that I could cut him later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:11 PM) Emery has already said that he does not feel comfortable giving Cutler the money that will go to a franchise tagged QB. It's too much money. OH NFL executives! How you show all of your cards and never use the media during negotiations slays me! The Bears aren't interested in spending $16 million for one season of Jay, but they will if they have to - while Jay and his agent will simply say "we have no reason to sign a cheap extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) How about f*** Jay Cutler for making this decision hard. What a colossal disappointment from initial expectations. +10000000000000000000000 Cutler and Peavy were the "OMG it's finally going to happen!" trades. Both huge f***ing disappointments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:55 PM) I do like how the argument of Cutler apologists is to attack McCown. How does McCown being bad/good/indifferent have anything to do with whether Cutler (or any player) is worth $15mil per season? Especially given how many injuries there are in football. Stop using the term apologist, its condescending and frankly stupid. So to your actual point, unless you present a viable replacement option its Cutler vs whats currently at the QB position with the Bears, thats why that comparison is being made. Also its 15 mil for ONE season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 01:09 PM) +10000000000000000000000 Cutler and Peavy were the "OMG it's finally going to happen!" trades. Both huge f***ing disappointments. Peavy's freak injury definitely was something we couldnt forsee however both of the teams put around those acquisitions were horrendous at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I dont know if Id call Cutler a huge disappointment. He led the Bears to the NFC Championship with Devin Hester as his number 1 WR and since then he has been behind brutal offensive lines. In regards to Minnesota as a common opponent, lets also remember the Bears beat the Vikings when Cutler played and that Cutler had a few great late game comebacks in the beginning of the season. The playcalling has also seemingly improved as the season has went on. I think the mistake a lot of people are making is assuming they know how much each QB will want to remain a Bear. Cutler has stated on his radio show that he knows his injury will cause him to have to settle for less money. He also has a family in Chicago and finally has an offense and coach who can bring out his full potential. Who is to say he wouldnt be willing to sign a team friendly deal? Also, what if a team is willing to throw 4-5 million at McCown? Unlikely, but until we know what these guys are gonna want its kind of ridiculous to argue about it. If Cutler is asking for the moon and McCown is willing to remain on a similar contract hes on now then this is a legitimate argument, but until then whats the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 01:00 PM) OH NFL executives! How you show all of your cards and never use the media during negotiations slays me! The Bears aren't interested in spending $16 million for one season of Jay, but they will if they have to - while Jay and his agent will simply say "we have no reason to sign a cheap extension. and Emery can say "we have no reason to sign you for that much money as it will make it so that our team cannot improve enough to make the playoffs. We also have a guy that outplayed you last year that will sign for a nickel." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 01:32 PM) I dont know if Id call Cutler a huge disappointment. He led the Bears to the NFC Championship with Devin Hester as his number 1 WR and since then he has been behind brutal offensive lines. In regards to Minnesota as a common opponent, lets also remember the Bears beat the Vikings when Cutler played and that Cutler had a few great late game comebacks in the beginning of the season. The playcalling has also seemingly improved as the season has went on. I think the mistake a lot of people are making is assuming they know how much each QB will want to remain a Bear. Cutler has stated on his radio show that he knows his injury will cause him to have to settle for less money. He also has a family in Chicago and finally has an offense and coach who can bring out his full potential. Who is to say he wouldnt be willing to sign a team friendly deal? Also, what if a team is willing to throw 4-5 million at McCown? Unlikely, but until we know what these guys are gonna want its kind of ridiculous to argue about it. If Cutler is asking for the moon and McCown is willing to remain on a similar contract hes on now then this is a legitimate argument, but until then whats the point? Makes the work day go by faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 09:31 AM) McCown being smarter with the ball keeps being a big selling point for him, so we should actually look at the decisions he's making, not just the outcomes. Yesterday, he made two really dumb decisions (or bad throws) that thankfully were dropped, but they were still not smart plays on his part. Let's see some evidence that McCown really is smarter with the ball, and that the difference is big enough to make up for the clearly inferior physical talents. I don't think many people here are saying McCown is better, just relative to the dollars he's probably a better value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Cutler is a $10M hit this year. Keeping it at this would be fine for the next four years. Problem is, he could probably get $15-$16M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 The QB salary has become so inflated (rightfully so, looking at teams like KC and then CLE on opposite end), that the only good deal would be with a good rookie deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 he put that throw in the perfect spot, but look at how much effort he had to put into a 35-40 yard loft. He had another great throw a few weeks ago to Alshon in the end zone when he was being pull down. Wish I could remember which game that was from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 02:07 PM) he put that throw in the perfect spot, but look at how much effort he had to put into a 35-40 yard loft. He had another great throw a few weeks ago to Alshon in the end zone when he was being pull down. Wish I could remember which game that was from. Id like to clarify Im not posting this in any sort of argument towards the Cutler/McCown nonsense, just appreciating a beastly play from Alshon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 @DaveMSiebert Seeing the reports that Aaron Rodgers did indeed have pain last week too. Not sounding good for a return anytime soon, to be honest. Sounding more and more like Rodgers won't be back this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Honestly, why push it? And im not even being Bears fan "haha funny he is hurt". I really have to wonder if Rodgers can go on a superbowl run after not playing for as long as he has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) Looks like Shannahan is benching RG III for Cousins this weekend. No health issues being reported now, saying he's keeping him out to keep him healthy moving forward. Edited December 11, 2013 by SoxFan562004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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