RockRaines Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:39 PM) Nick Foles is a semi decent example as well. Not sure if you can compare young unproven guys who get a chance to a 34 year old journeyman who was coaching HS football a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:35 PM) Montana's arm was f***ed up when he came back. (He missed all of 1991 and all but one game of 1992) Then they traded him. Not a good example. If anything Young could be used as an example of the incumbent losing his job temporarily when Steve Bono took it. Then that would work. Montana demanded a trade, he was traded to KC and went to a Pro Bowl his first year and to the AFC Championship game his last year. He also put up Qb ratings of 87.4 and 83.6 respectively. As an FYI Cutler has only 1 season where he played more than 10 games and put up an 87.4. Regardless, all of this argument is just proving my overall point that the safer pick is to go with the starter and say "Starters dont lose their jobs to injury". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:41 PM) Not sure if you can compare young unproven guys who get a chance to a 34 year old journeyman who was coaching HS football a year ago. So if McCown was 25 then its different? Either starters dont lose their job to injury, or its just a meaningless cliche that people use when they dont want to make a tough decision. I vote the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:47 PM) So if McCown was 25 then its different? Either starters dont lose their job to injury, or its just a meaningless cliche that people use when they dont want to make a tough decision. I vote the latter. Maybe that cliche is overused, but, yeah, if a 25 year old who hasn't played much before comes in and looks fantastic it's different than a 35 year old with a track record of meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:47 PM) So if McCown was 25 then its different? Either starters dont lose their job to injury, or its just a meaningless cliche that people use when they dont want to make a tough decision. I vote the latter. Yup, younger and unproven, absolutely. Old with a long track record, back to the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Rich Gannon was a completely mediocre nobody until he went to Oakland at age 33 and began playing under Trestman. Pre-Trestman, Gannon never had more than 16 TDs (he also had 16 INT that year). Never more than 2300 yards passing. Gannon threw 24, 28, 27, and 26 TDs in his first 4 years with Trestman and became a 4 time pro-bowler and won 2 MVPs. Averaged 3947 yards those 4 seasons too. Edited December 12, 2013 by BigSqwert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:48 PM) Maybe that cliche is overused, but, yeah, if a 25 year old who hasn't played much before comes in and looks fantastic it's different than a 35 year old with a track record of meh. QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:56 PM) Yup, younger and unproven, absolutely. Old with a long track record, back to the bench. Im fine with this reasoning, just dont say its because Cutler was injured. Its about your lack of faith in McCown and your belief that Cutler is better. I just think its irrational to keep a player X as a starter if you believe that player Y is better, just because player X happened to get injured and thats how you found out about player Y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:58 PM) Rich Gannon was a completely mediocre nobody until he went to Oakland at age 33 and began playing under Trestman. Pre-Trestman, Gannon never had more than 16 TDs (he also had 16 INT that year). Never more than 2300 yards passing. Gannon threw 24, 28, 27, and 26 TDs in his first 4 years with Trestman and became a pro-bowl QB. Averaged 3947 yards those 4 seasons too. You're right, Jon Gruden's offense was key to Gannon beating out the dynamic Bobby Hoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 04:01 PM) Im fine with this reasoning, just dont say its because Cutler was injured. Its about your lack of faith in McCown and your belief that Cutler is better. I just think its irrational to keep a player X as a starter if you believe that player Y is better, just because player X happened to get injured and thats how you found out about player Y. Of course I believe that Cutler is the more talented, better player, absolutely. A talented starting QB doesnt lose his job to an injury, especially when he comes back that season. They almost ALWAYS get a chance to prove themselves again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 04:04 PM) Of course I believe that Cutler is the more talented, better player, absolutely. A talented starting QB doesnt lose his job to an injury, especially when he comes back that season. They almost ALWAYS get a chance to prove themselves again. I gave him a chance against Detroit and he lied to me. I dont give second chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) I gave him a chance against Detroit and he lied to me. I dont give second chances. Danny O'Brien says different. He said you gave a few chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 04:08 PM) Danny O'Brien says different. He said you gave a few chances. Im pretty sure that my feelings on Bret Bielema are well known. He may have a learning disability, hes just remarkably dumb. I think he may have cost Wisconsin a NC shot when they had Russel Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) I gave him a chance against Detroit and he lied to me. I dont give second chances. And we're in the middle of a playoff race...an important fact in this scenario of who should be starting, an injured star player or his back up that is playing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 04:12 PM) And we're in the middle of a playoff race...an important fact in this scenario of who should be starting, an injured star player or his back up that is playing well. I also dont believe that Cutler is 100% healthy and Im worried that due to the fact its likely to be cold he has a chance to re-injure himself or not play effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:25 PM) Kurt Warner. Vermeil was in tears, actually crying about Trent Green getting hurt the last preseason game. Warner had completed 4 passes in 11 attempts in the NFL at that point. MVP. Super Bowl. Vermeil cried about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 01:25 PM) Ya, from what I remember he ended up sticking with Brady over Bledsoe at the end of the season and through the playoffs. Brady was a young, up and coming player. McCown is 36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 02:37 PM) Brady was a young, up and coming player. McCown is 36. No, he is 34. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 04:41 PM) No, he is 34. he will be 36 within a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 02:43 PM) he will be 36 within a few years. Cutler will be 43 in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 03:58 PM) Rich Gannon was a completely mediocre nobody until he went to Oakland at age 33 and began playing under Trestman. Pre-Trestman, Gannon never had more than 16 TDs (he also had 16 INT that year). Never more than 2300 yards passing. Gannon threw 24, 28, 27, and 26 TDs in his first 4 years with Trestman and became a 4 time pro-bowler and won 2 MVPs. Averaged 3947 yards those 4 seasons too. Trestman got to Oakland in 2001 as QB coach and became offensive coordinator in 2002. Gannon made the Pro Bowl in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. He became a Pro Bowl quarterback under Jon Gruden, and kept it up for two more years when Trestman was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 McCown will be 43 first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 02:46 PM) Trestman got to Oakland in 2001 as QB coach and became offensive coordinator in 2002. Gannon made the Pro Bowl in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. He became a Pro Bowl quarterback under Jon Gruden, and kept it up for two more years when Trestman was there. Anyway, Gannon was pretty much a lousy QB until the age of 33. McCown is 34 and it's not like he's looked good in a couple of games. He's looked very good in every game he's been in this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 04:49 PM) Anyway, Gannon was pretty much a lousy QB until the age of 33. McCown is 34 and it's not like he's looked good in a couple of games. He's looked very good in every game he's been in this year. Gannon wasnt lousy, he just never got a shot. He backed up some good QBs before the Raiders gave him a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 02:51 PM) Gannon wasnt lousy, he just never got a shot. He backed up some good QBs before the Raiders gave him a chance. If you can't beat out guys like Elvis Grbac and Steve Bono then I'm not sure you're anything other than lousy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 04:55 PM) If you can't beat out guys like Elvis Grbac and Steve Bono then I'm not sure you're anything other than lousy. Those guys had some pretty good years in KC. But thats fine, Gannon was lousy then at 33 he wasnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts