2013-2014 NFL Thread

[MexSoxFan#1]

So people think if the Bears lose against Green Bay, Cutler is done as a Bear? Am I reading this right?

 

How can it be that black and white? He could throw for 300 with 4 TD's and the defense might still lose the game.

In that scenario, obviously it wouldn't be Cutler's fault. I'd want him back but with a nice home town discount so we can upgrade the D. There's no reason Cutler shouldn't be able to beat GB at home this Sunday, I know our D is pathetic but their's are pretty bad too and Flynn sucks.

 

We have to win.

[Greyone]

The good thing is a lot of the defencive players we have have played down this year. Not one of them should get a substantial raise this coming year, maybe Jennings, Wootton, Bowman get more money, Wright and Melton will be question marks. Need to resign Gould and Slauson, and decide what to do with Garza. Nfltraderumors has a list of the top 50/100 players but I have no clue who would be good to pursue or not. I don't pay that much attention to stats.

[LittleHurt05]

early forecast for Sunday. Kickoff temp : 4°, wind chill: -16°

 

Oh boy, I am gonna need at least four layers to sit through this one.

[Kyyle23]

early forecast for Sunday. Kickoff temp : 4°, wind chill: -16°

Oh boy, I am gonna need at least four layers to sit through this one.

 

That is bad for healing collarbones, right?

[Balta1701]

early forecast for Sunday. Kickoff temp : 4°, wind chill: -16°

 

Oh boy, I am gonna need at least four layers to sit through this one.

That is how it should be for Bears/Packers in December.

[MexSoxFan#1]

That is bad for healing collarbones, right?

How 'bout we do Aaron Rodgers (if he plays) like Charles Martin did McMahon? Finally repay them for costing us a repeat, been a long time coming...

 

I'm only kidding...ok, not really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTLlaMY_9PM...be_gdata_player

 

[Kyyle23]

I wonder what the NFL would have done to Martin if that would have happened nowadays. Aside from the massive fine, I am curious if he would be suspended for games as well

[cabiness42]

How 'bout we do Aaron Rodgers (if he plays) like Charles Martin did McMahon? Finally repay them for costing us a repeat, been a long time coming...

 

I'm only kidding...ok, not really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTLlaMY_9PM...be_gdata_player

 

No, because to really repay them, the Packers need to be overwhelming Super Bowl favorites when you do it. The Packers aren't winning the Super Bowl this year anyway. Wait for a better spot.

[MexSoxFan#1]

No, because to really repay them, the Packers need to be overwhelming Super Bowl favorites when you do it. The Packers aren't winning the Super Bowl this year anyway. Wait for a better spot.

Well, if we end his career, we'll close their window

[chw42]

I meant prime time Cutler/Bears vs the Pack, some of those games were absolute nightmares.

 

The only good game Cutler had against the Packers was on Monday Night Football.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...01009270chi.htm

 

And he wasn't even that good, but it was his best game against the Packers.

Edited December 24, 2013 by chw42

[Kyyle23]

Cutler's main harrasser Clay Matthews isnt going to be playing, so that is good for him.

 

Rodgers just did an interview, said they did another scan and they dont have a definitive answer until Thursday

[chw42]

Cutler's main harrasser Clay Matthews isnt going to be playing, so that is good for him.

 

Rodgers just did an interview, said they did another scan and they dont have a definitive answer until Thursday

 

Erik Walden also tortured him quite a bit.

[Jake]

The problem with bringing back Cutler is that it means you are committing this excellent core of offensive skill players and intriguing young talent on the line to him. Whether or not the money is there, you have to decide if you want Jay Cutler to be the last QB for this offense. By the time any Cutler deal would end, you've probably seen the last of Forte, Marshall, and Bennett while also nearing the time where you have to re-up with Jeffery.

 

We've already given Jay a contract on the premise that we wanted him to play better than he ever had. I'm not sure that I want to pay a 30 year old, oft-injured, apparently uncoachable QB on the premise that his play gets better.

[witesoxfan]

The problem with bringing back Cutler is that it means you are committing this excellent core of offensive skill players and intriguing young talent on the line to him. Whether or not the money is there, you have to decide if you want Jay Cutler to be the last QB for this offense. By the time any Cutler deal would end, you've probably seen the last of Forte, Marshall, and Bennett while also nearing the time where you have to re-up with Jeffery.

 

We've already given Jay a contract on the premise that we wanted him to play better than he ever had. I'm not sure that I want to pay a 30 year old, oft-injured, apparently uncoachable QB on the premise that his play gets better.

 

I think Jay is broken. His mindset is that of a guy trying to protect himself and a guy who is used to playing behind a bad line. He is panicked all the time. He's not David Carr, but I think he's really close to Jeff George.

 

I agree, I think the Bears need to look in a different direction.

 

They should trade their 1st round pick for Ryan Fitzpatrick because he is a veritable stud.

[Kyyle23]

I saw the footage that led people to say that and I don't think that's what he was doing. His screaming up towards the fans seemed to flow from the conversation he was having through his headset. I think he was looking up at the pressbox and screaming at whoever was talking to him in his ear.

 

 

Nope, he admitted it

 

http://www.freep.com/article/20131223/SPOR...ns-jim-schwartz

[LittleHurt05]

Packers to name starting quarterback on Thursday.

 

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/12/24/rod...-come-thursday/

[BigSqwert]

I think Jay is broken. His mindset is that of a guy trying to protect himself and a guy who is used to playing behind a bad line. He is panicked all the time. He's not David Carr, but I think he's really close to Jeff George.

 

I agree, I think the Bears need to look in a different direction.

 

They should trade their 1st round pick for Ryan Fitzpatrick because he is a veritable stud.

 

I was just looking up Cutler's stats and comparing to George's a week ago or so. Eerily similar.

[Jake]

Player A on 2008/09 Bears - 9-6 QB record, 58.5% cmp, 3.9% TD%/2.6% Int%, 6.0 AY/A, 79.6 Passer Rating

 

Player B on 2008/09 Bears - 7-9 QB record, 60.5% cmp, 4.9% TD%/4.7% Int%, 5.5 AY/A, 76.8 Passer Rating

 

Player A on 2008/09 Broncos - 8-7 QB record, 62.1% cmp, 3.9% TD%/2.2% Int%, 6.8 AY/A, 86.8 Passer Rating

 

Player B on 2008/09 Broncos - 8-8 QB record, 62.3% cmp, 4.1% TD%/2.9% Int%, 6.8 AY/A, 86.0 Passer Rating

 

If you haven't guessed, player A is

Kyle Orton

and player B is

Jay Cutler

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I'm not saying Kyle Orton is better or really very good at all. There are some flaws in this comparison, since the teams were similar from year to year, not the same. Nonetheless, it says a lot about Jay Cutler that the main statistical difference between those two playing for the same teams was more pass attempts and picks for Jay. The value added from Jay is just not there, not significant enough.

 

His best PFF rating ever was that year in Denver where he ranked 6th among QBs in PFF's first year, tied with Jake Delhomme and David Garrard - proof that being good in one year doesn't prove a whole lot. Other than that, he has fluctuated from 15-30 out of roughly 45 qualifying QBs per year. At Orton's best, he was average -- Orton is no longer that guy and the "real" Orton is below average. Maybe at Cutler's best, he's a top 6 QB -- but there isn't a whole lot there to convince me that the "real" Jay isn't just an average QB that comes with a top 5 QB level of drama and attitude.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Jake

[DrunkBomber]

Cutler aside, Orton is dogs***.

[Balta1701]

Now, I'm not saying Kyle Orton is better or really very good at all. There are some flaws in this comparison, since the teams were similar from year to year, not the same. Nonetheless, it says a lot about Jay Cutler that the main statistical difference between those two playing for the same teams was more pass attempts and picks for Jay. The value added from Jay is just not there, not significant enough.

I understand where you're going...but also worth saying is that "continuing the same statistics through a larger number of attempts" is in fact a solid statement because quite often when a team has to throw more it means they aren't getting support from their running game or they're forced to pass in situations where the defense knows they're going to pass. So there is some positive buried in there as well...but it does have to be weighed correctly.

[LittleHurt05]

The problem with bringing back Cutler is that it means you are committing this excellent core of offensive skill players and intriguing young talent on the line to him. Whether or not the money is there, you have to decide if you want Jay Cutler to be the last QB for this offense. By the time any Cutler deal would end, you've probably seen the last of Forte, Marshall, and Bennett while also nearing the time where you have to re-up with Jeffery.

 

We've already given Jay a contract on the premise that we wanted him to play better than he ever had. I'm not sure that I want to pay a 30 year old, oft-injured, apparently uncoachable QB on the premise that his play gets better.

 

Uncoachable? Why? Because he told Martz to go f*** himself? Martz was awful in Chicago and deserved it. Trestman doesn't seem to have issues getting to him. His first years in Chicago had bad talent around him and questionable coaching. Some frustration could be expected.

 

Tom Brady cusses out the sidelines and he is a competitor. Cutler does it and he is selfish and uncoachable.

[Quin]

Uncoachable? Why? Because he told Martz to go f*** himself? Martz was awful in Chicago and deserved it. Trestman doesn't seem to have issues getting to him. His first years in Chicago had bad talent around him and questionable coaching. Some frustration could be expected.

 

Tom Brady cusses out the sidelines and he is a competitor. Cutler does it and he is selfish and uncoachable.

 

Let's not forget that Jay Cutler players on a torn knee and is a quitter.

[Jake]

Uncoachable? Why? Because he told Martz to go f*** himself? Martz was awful in Chicago and deserved it. Trestman doesn't seem to have issues getting to him. His first years in Chicago had bad talent around him and questionable coaching. Some frustration could be expected.

 

Tom Brady cusses out the sidelines and he is a competitor. Cutler does it and he is selfish and uncoachable.

 

I've concluded that he's uncoachable because he continues to make the same mistakes he has always made. It looked earlier this year like he may have made some strides but it no longer seems that way. He fails to make adjustments at the line, he holds the ball too long, he constantly throws off of his back foot, does not progress through his reads, holds the ball one-handed and near his waist in the pocket, and who knows what else.

 

When people talk about Jay's wasted talent, this is why. This is why McCown can come in and outplay him. McCown will see the blitz and abuse it to the extent that they quit doing it. He doesn't turn the ball over. He makes the right reads. His inferior arm is nullified by the fact he steps into his throws with his feet under him. McCown is nothing special, he's just well coached.

 

It is indeed hard to prove whether or not he is coachable, but the fact that he makes the most fundamental quarterbacking mistakes year after year with coach after coach leads me to believe it is the case. That doesn't mean he is a dickhead or that he has a bad relationship with his coaches. When I'm saying uncoachable, I'm saying that he is being coached and not implementing what is being coached. Maybe he's not smart enough or too scared of the rush from his early years or he's walking around half-concussed. I don't know why he is uncoachable, but I can't think of any other reason he has failed to improve any on these things that you're taught in high school.

[LittleHurt05]

I've concluded that he's uncoachable because he continues to make the same mistakes he has always made. It looked earlier this year like he may have made some strides but it no longer seems that way. He fails to make adjustments at the line, he holds the ball too long, he constantly throws off of his back foot, does not progress through his reads, holds the ball one-handed and near his waist in the pocket, and who knows what else.

 

When people talk about Jay's wasted talent, this is why. This is why McCown can come in and outplay him. McCown will see the blitz and abuse it to the extent that they quit doing it. He doesn't turn the ball over. He makes the right reads. His inferior arm is nullified by the fact he steps into his throws with his feet under him. McCown is nothing special, he's just well coached.

 

It is indeed hard to prove whether or not he is coachable, but the fact that he makes the most fundamental quarterbacking mistakes year after year with coach after coach leads me to believe it is the case. That doesn't mean he is a dickhead or that he has a bad relationship with his coaches. When I'm saying uncoachable, I'm saying that he is being coached and not implementing what is being coached. Maybe he's not smart enough or too scared of the rush from his early years or he's walking around half-concussed. I don't know why he is uncoachable, but I can't think of any other reason he has failed to improve any on these things that you're taught in high school.

 

OK, I can't really disagree with those points. I hear uncoachable and think clubhouse cancer, maverick, f*** you coach kind of guy, but your definition of it makes sense. The things you mention are the major concerns with Jay. I have always been a big supporter of his, but I don't think it's a slam dunk to pay him big bucks either. On one hand, McCown could suck, you draft the wrong rookie and suddenly you are back in QB hell like the last 40+ years. Or you keep Jay, he has success but can't get you to the next level and you are hamstrung cap wise to improve the team enough. Not an envious position that Emery is in.

[iamshack]

OK, I can't really disagree with those points. I hear uncoachable and think clubhouse cancer, maverick, f*** you coach kind of guy, but your definition of it makes sense. The things you mention are the major concerns with Jay. I have always been a big supporter of his, but I don't think it's a slam dunk to pay him big bucks either. On one hand, McCown could suck, you draft the wrong rookie and suddenly you are back in QB hell like the last 40+ years. Or you keep Jay, he has success but can't get you to the next level and you are hamstrung cap wise to improve the team enough. Not an envious position that Emery is in.

I fully agree with you...I just wonder though, is the risk that McCown would suck, or that he would get injured?