2013-2014 NFL Thread

[Jake]

Jim Miller said it best - "Jay Cutler didn't play badly. But was it great? No it wasn't." There is a matter of expectations here. Jenks and I are expecting greatness. We traded two first round draft picks for greatness. We've been paying him 10 million dollars per year for greatness. We are apparently considering giving him a 50% raise for greatness. It isn't what we're getting. We're getting the same old inconsistency. Too many possessions just given away by poor throws and decisions. In the game and drive where it mattered most, we came up empty.

 

On non-QB matters, this is something to think about: it wouldn't be difficult to flip into a 3-4 scheme in this offseason. Think about the players under contract/we would want to bring back: all 3 corners (not that all three will come back, but that we would want them all), Briggs under contract, and then you have McClellin and Bostic as key cogs on rookie contracts, and then Ratliff/Wootton as some DL we'd probably like to bring back. All of these guys fit in 3-4. I would love Bostic-Briggs as the ILB. You have McClellin as rushing OLB. Corners are good to go. You need new safeties regardless. Ratliff made his name in the middle of a 3-4 line and Wootton is that perfect mixture of DT/DE to fit as a down lineman in a 3-4. Heck, even our 6th round pick Cornelius Washington would look a lot better as a rushing OLB (look at that guy's combine stats, good gracious).

 

Also, Mel Tucker is a rare breed that has coordinated both 4-3 and 3-4 in the NFL. Our scheme today featured McClellin standing up almost the entire time BTW.

 

With the amount of turnover we expect on D and the personnel that are going to stay, this would be the time to change if Emery and/or Trestman really want to do it.

[Jenksismyhero]

Yes, but they really, really did not make that very specific mistake. It seems much more idiotic to essentially say that coaching priorities/focus makes no difference and to assume that a team coached by a guy who constantly drilled "grab every loose ball" into his players' heads would have made a very idiotic mistake on a loose ball.

 

I never said it doesn't matter, i'm saying it's not a direct cause. It's f***ing moronic to say a Lovie coached team wouldn't FOR A FACT make a simple mistake when Lovie coached teams made mistakes all the time. You're making Lovie out to be this f***ing perfect defensive coach when he was not. He was very good. He was one of the best at getting turnovers. He didn't make every perfect play ever presented to him just because he created a culture of ball hawking defense.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

I never said it doesn't matter, i'm saying it's not a direct cause. It's f***ing moronic to say a Lovie coached team wouldn't FOR A FACT make a simple mistake when Lovie coached teams made mistakes all the time. You're making Lovie out to be this f***ing perfect defensive coach when he was not. He was very good. He was one of the best at getting turnovers. He didn't make every perfect play ever presented to him just because he created a culture of ball hawking defense.

Nobody is saying any of those dumb things, maybe that's why you're making silly arguments in response.

[Jake]

IMO it is a far, far more absurd argument to say that Lovie Smith would prevent that freak play than it is to say that Cutler could have/should have played better today

[southsideirish71]

Jim Miller said it best - "Jay Cutler didn't play badly. But was it great? No it wasn't." There is a matter of expectations here. Jenks and I are expecting greatness. We traded two first round draft picks for greatness. We've been paying him 10 million dollars per year for greatness. We are apparently considering giving him a 50% raise for greatness. It isn't what we're getting. We're getting the same old inconsistency. Too many possessions just given away by poor throws and decisions. In the game and drive where it mattered most, we came up empty.

 

On non-QB matters, this is something to think about: it wouldn't be difficult to flip into a 3-4 scheme in this offseason. Think about the players under contract/we would want to bring back: all 3 corners (not that all three will come back, but that we would want them all), Briggs under contract, and then you have McClellin and Bostic as key cogs on rookie contracts, and then Ratliff/Wootton as some DL we'd probably like to bring back. All of these guys fit in 3-4. I would love Bostic-Briggs as the ILB. You have McClellin as rushing OLB. Corners are good to go. You need new safeties regardless. Ratliff made his name in the middle of a 3-4 line and Wootton is that perfect mixture of DT/DE to fit as a down lineman in a 3-4. Heck, even our 6th round pick Cornelius Washington would look a lot better as a rushing OLB (look at that guy's combine stats, good gracious).

 

Also, Mel Tucker is a rare breed that has coordinated both 4-3 and 3-4 in the NFL. Our scheme today featured McClellin standing up almost the entire time BTW.

 

With the amount of turnover we expect on D and the personnel that are going to stay, this would be the time to change if Emery and/or Trestman really want to do it.

 

Okay, because I enjoy the crazy. What drive are you talking about. Is this the drive where he hits Alshon right in the hands and he dropped it or on the last 38 seconds.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Jim Miller said it best - "Jay Cutler didn't play badly. But was it great? No it wasn't." There is a matter of expectations here. Jenks and I are expecting greatness. We traded two first round draft picks for greatness. We've been paying him 10 million dollars per year for greatness. We are apparently considering giving him a 50% raise for greatness. It isn't what we're getting. We're getting the same old inconsistency. Too many possessions just given away by poor throws and decisions. In the game and drive where it mattered most, we came up empty.

 

On non-QB matters, this is something to think about: it wouldn't be difficult to flip into a 3-4 scheme in this offseason. Think about the players under contract/we would want to bring back: all 3 corners (not that all three will come back, but that we would want them all), Briggs under contract, and then you have McClellin and Bostic as key cogs on rookie contracts, and then Ratliff/Wootton as some DL we'd probably like to bring back. All of these guys fit in 3-4. I would love Bostic-Briggs as the ILB. You have McClellin as rushing OLB. Corners are good to go. You need new safeties regardless. Ratliff made his name in the middle of a 3-4 line and Wootton is that perfect mixture of DT/DE to fit as a down lineman in a 3-4. Heck, even our 6th round pick Cornelius Washington would look a lot better as a rushing OLB (look at that guy's combine stats, good gracious).

 

Also, Mel Tucker is a rare breed that has coordinated both 4-3 and 3-4 in the NFL. Our scheme today featured McClellin standing up almost the entire time BTW.

 

With the amount of turnover we expect on D and the personnel that are going to stay, this would be the time to change if Emery and/or Trestman really want to do it.

In the game and drive where it mattered most, Cutler made a good throw that should have been caught for a first down. That is why people think you're saying silly things.

[dasox24]

One thing is for sure: DeCamillis needs to go. Not sure how he is so "respected" in NFL circles, but he's garbage. Dallas never had memorable special teams units (except for a bobbled FG hold in a playoff game), and the Bears regressed tremendously this year.

 

Unfortunately, being Trestman's Associate HC, that means he'll probably still be around. But he's terrible.

[southsideirish71]

I am starting to think that the Hotdog vendor Mike North has hijacked a few of the accounts. Because these arguments are a cornerstone of his logic.

 

 

[RockRaines]

Outside of the ridiculous Cutler biased crap there is good info there.

 

I still don't think you fire staff after one year. You change players first. The defense was injured and inexperienced. Draft, sign and please coach.

[Jake]

You folks should have watched postgame press conference as Jay detailed exactly how he deserves as much or blame as anybody for why the Jeffery pass wasn't caught. He said outright that he threw it in the wrong place and made it much harder than it should have been. People act like I'm crazy for expecting excellence from a Chicago QB but we're eager to assume Jeffery makes an unbelievable catch like that would have been.

[StrangeSox]

Weren't jenks and Jake making a bunch of excuses for when mccown only put up 20 against a terrible Vikings team?

[zenryan]

I'm making sure I remember that a QB rating in the 80's is good to you.

 

 

Apparently it's good to a lot of people since Cutler's career QB rating is 84.4.

[StrangeSox]

You folks should have watched postgame press conference as Jay detailed exactly how he deserves as much or blame as anybody for why the Jeffery pass wasn't caught. He said outright that he threw it in the wrong place and made it much harder than it should have been. People act like I'm crazy for expecting excellence from a Chicago QB but we're eager to assume Jeffery makes an unbelievable catch like that would have been.

A good leader assumes responsibility. Jay is usually not that great a leader but that shows maturity.

 

It would have been a good catch, but not unbelievable. Something any top-tier wr should make when it hits him square in the hands.

 

Nobody is saying it's crazy to expect and want excellence. Far from it. It's all of the other things you're saying regarding Cutler that seem pretty heavily biased.

[RockRaines]

Duncan Keith would make a great safety.

[Jenksismyhero]

Gotta say, lovies defense would never have done that

 

how else do you interpret this sentence?

[southsideirish71]

You folks should have watched postgame press conference as Jay detailed exactly how he deserves as much or blame as anybody for why the Jeffery pass wasn't caught. He said outright that he threw it in the wrong place and made it much harder than it should have been. People act like I'm crazy for expecting excellence from a Chicago QB but we're eager to assume Jeffery makes an unbelievable catch like that would have been.

 

You keep on demanding excellence. Remind me where we have had this hotbed of QB talent that we have seen over the last 20 years piloting our offense. Do you remember the pre-Cutler days. Do you remember the 400 or so QBs that piloted the SS Fail on offense. He hit the receiver in the hands. Thats all a QB can do. Any QB worth his salt is going to blame himself on the post game show. I can imagine the pitchforks and torches if he came up and said, well did my best. Did you see how our defense played. f***, they suck.

 

 

[Jake]

Weren't jenks and Jake making a bunch of excuses for when mccown only put up 20 against a terrible Vikings team?

 

I was driving across the country when that game was played, so I wasn't around either way.

 

I have been in favor of playing Jay when he's healthy. You want as many snaps as you can to make a decision here. I'm happy to have had another look, because it has confirmed to me that Jay is a sub-$10 million QB and, in that case, Chicago is probably best suited to move on. I've been a huge Cutler supporter throughout his time here, but IMO we've seen enough. If we had an excellent defense in place, I'd probably feel differently. Since we easily need to replace half or more of the players on defense and cannot possibly afford to do so while resigning the current crew, I'm inclined to move on and try to get the most valuable thing in the NFL: a good-to-great QB on his rookie contract

[DukeNukeEm]

I was driving across the country when that game was played, so I wasn't around either way.

I'm usually doing the same. The key is to just make s*** up and be very stern with your opinions, if you really get backed down bust out some sarcasm. Pretty standard "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bulls***" tactics. Happy hunting.

[Kyyle23]

It's weird to see Orton with surfer boy hair and no neck beard

[Jenksismyhero]

A good leader assumes responsibility. Jay is usually not that great a leader but that shows maturity.

 

It would have been a good catch, but not unbelievable. Something any top-tier wr should make when it hits him square in the hands.

 

Nobody is saying it's crazy to expect and want excellence. Far from it. It's all of the other things you're saying regarding Cutler that seem pretty heavily biased.

 

Like what exactly? What have we said that's so unreasonable? We want someone who can beat the Packers?

[chw42]

I was driving across the country when that game was played, so I wasn't around either way.

 

I have been in favor of playing Jay when he's healthy. You want as many snaps as you can to make a decision here. I'm happy to have had another look, because it has confirmed to me that Jay is a sub-$10 million QB and, in that case, Chicago is probably best suited to move on. I've been a huge Cutler supporter throughout his time here, but IMO we've seen enough. If we had an excellent defense in place, I'd probably feel differently. Since we easily need to replace half or more of the players on defense and cannot possibly afford to do so while resigning the current crew, I'm inclined to move on and try to get the most valuable thing in the NFL: a good-to-great QB on his rookie contract

 

I don't think you guys understand what a sub-$10 million QB is.

 

Guys who are not on their rookie contract making below $10 million this year: Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Michael Vick, Matt Moore, Matt Cassel, Matt Hasselbeck, Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kevin Kolb.

 

Do any of you guys seriously thinking any of those QBs are definitively better than Jay Cutler? You can make a case for Alex Smith. Thinking anyone else is better is silly.

 

Guys who made >$10 million this year that are definitely worse than Cutler: Matt Schaub, Mark Sanchez, Sam Bradford.

Debatable guys who are worse than Cutler: Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Eli Manning.

Sanchez and Bradford made only ~$1 million less this year than Cutler.

 

Unless you can hit the jackpot with a QB in the first round, bringing Cutler back at around his current salary wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

[Jake]

Another thing I don't see talked about: Cutler injuries. If you think McCown is no good, that means we have punted three seasons because of Cutler injuries. This one, 2011, and the infamous "knee" game against GB. This isn't a "Cutler is a p****" thing, since I think he is actually an extremely tough SOB. But he hasn't been super durable by any stretch, missing 12 entire games over the past three seasons. This doesn't include his early exit from the Houston game last year (we lost by 7, did he make us lose that game and thus the playoffs?) or the Washington and Detroit games this season.

 

Does anyone feel like his injury history is a bit too worrisome to commit a bunch of money to him? I bet Lovie Smith is sitting somewhere feeling pretty pissed off about those injuries

[StrangeSox]

Like what exactly? What have we said that's so unreasonable? We want someone who can beat the Packers?

Yep, that's all you've said, point conceded, how dumb of us.

[chw42]

Another thing I don't see talked about: Cutler injuries. If you think McCown is no good, that means we have punted three seasons because of Cutler injuries. This one, 2011, and the infamous "knee" game against GB. This isn't a "Cutler is a p****" thing, since I think he is actually an extremely tough SOB. But he hasn't been super durable by any stretch, missing 12 entire games over the past three seasons. This doesn't include his early exit from the Houston game last year (we lost by 7, did he make us lose that game and thus the playoffs?) or the Washington and Detroit games this season.

 

Does anyone feel like his injury history is a bit too worrisome to commit a bunch of money to him? I bet Lovie Smith is sitting somewhere feeling pretty pissed off about those injuries

 

It's definitely something to worry about. Before the groin this year, I didn't really think of Cutler as injury prone. None of his injuries before seemed routine. He broke his hand on a tackle. He had his MCL sprained by a big hit.

 

But that groin injury looked way too routine.

[Kyyle23]

Another thing I don't see talked about: Cutler injuries. If you think McCown is no good, that means we have punted three seasons because of Cutler injuries. This one, 2011, and the infamous "knee" game against GB. This isn't a "Cutler is a p****" thing, since I think he is actually an extremely tough SOB. But he hasn't been super durable by any stretch, missing 12 entire games over the past three seasons. This doesn't include his early exit from the Houston game last year (we lost by 7, did he make us lose that game and thus the playoffs?) or the Washington and Detroit games this season.

 

Does anyone feel like his injury history is a bit too worrisome to commit a bunch of money to him? I bet Lovie Smith is sitting somewhere feeling pretty pissed off about those injuries

 

Lovie should be pissed at Angelo for giving him offensive lines that play at a high school level and himself for his terrible offensive coordinators