2013-2014 NFL Thread

[StrangeSox]

how else do you interpret this sentence?

Probably not as a literal statement of fact since its a counterfactual, but if that's all that is driving your silly posts on that topic I'll admit to being imprecise in my wording on that post.

[Jenksismyhero]

I don't think you guys understand what a sub-$10 million QB is.

 

Guys who are not on their rookie contract making below $10 million this year: Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Michael Vick, Matt Moore, Matt Cassel, Matt Hasselbeck, Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kevin Kolb.

 

Do any of you guys seriously thinking any of those QBs are definitively better than Jay Cutler? You can make a case for Alex Smith. Thinking anyone else is better is silly.

 

Guys who made >$10 million this year that are definitely worse than Cutler: Matt Schaub, Mark Sanchez, Sam Bradford.

Debatable guys who are worse than Cutler: Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Eli Manning.

Sanchez and Bradford made only ~$1 million less this year than Cutler.

 

Unless you can hit the jackpot with a QB in the first round, bringing Cutler back at around his current salary wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

 

Right, but they could take the risk of signing McCown and drafting a QB and seeing where that leads them. McCown could be less than average as per his career stats and the draft pick could fizzle out. But that's doing SOMETHING different to try and win against the best QB in the league (or at worst 2nd best). We've had what, six seasons of Cutler? And every god damn excuse has been thrown out there for why he can't win. I've had enough. If he wants a reasonable contract, 10-12 million, i'll happily bring him back. If he wants Stafford-like money in the 20 million range, which is what is expected, f*** that. He's not worth that kind of money because he doesn't give you enough wins. Welcome to 8-8, 9-7 every year. That's what Cutler and a sub-average defense gives you.

 

At this point the offense is basically there, with or without Cutler. Why not put all that money towards a defense which is clearly not anywhere close?

[Jake]

You know how people felt like that weird fumble play is something that just never happened with Lovie Smith at the helm?

 

I think Jenks and I think winning is something that just never happens with Cutler around. He's become a middle of the road QB and he consistently quarterbacks middle of the road teams. He has had a variety of different circumstances that can explain that -- s***ty defense now, bad lines before, iffy supporting skill players before, changes in coordinators. If you're the Bears, though, is it crazy to think that maybe we've spent enough time, money, and energy on him? How many people have to lose their jobs because Cutler hasn't played up to expectations? Jerry Angelo, Lovie Smith, Mike Martz, Ron Turner, Mike Tice...not exactly an all-star cast, but you have to wonder at what point you quit trying to make him fit when it never seems to work out.

[Jenksismyhero]

Probably not as a literal statement of fact since its a counterfactual, but if that's all that is driving your silly posts on that topic I'll admit to being imprecise in my wording on that post.

 

Great, so your statement was stupid and your repeated arguments in support were equally stupid. I agree.

 

Even if you had couched that though I still would not have agreed. That's a simple, basic football play. 8th graders learn to never give up on a play until the whistle blows. You don't have to have a culture of getting after the ball to know that as a professional football player.

[chw42]

Right, but they could take the risk of signing McCown and drafting a QB and seeing where that leads them. McCown could be less than average as per his career stats and the draft pick could fizzle out. But that's doing SOMETHING different to try and win against the best QB in the league (or at worst 2nd best). We've had what, six seasons of Cutler? And every god damn excuse has been thrown out there for why he can't win. I've had enough. If he wants a reasonable contract, 10-12 million, i'll happily bring him back. If he wants Stafford-like money in the 20 million range, which is what is expected, f*** that. He's not worth that kind of money because he doesn't give you enough wins. Welcome to 8-8, 9-7 every year. That's what Cutler and a sub-average defense gives you.

 

At this point the offense is basically there, with or without Cutler. Why not put all that money towards a defense which is clearly not anywhere close?

 

Considering Big Ben is making $14.5 million a year, I think it would be awfully stupid for the Bears to give Cutler anything over $14 million.

 

And I do agree that the offense is there. Had McCown not done what he did this year, I don't think I'd be okay with letting Cutler walk.

[Jake]

Let's put it this way: it seems like the team could win if it had a really great QB and a barely passable defense, something that's just a little better than one of the worst rushing defenses in history. It could also win with a Cutler-y, average or above-average depending on the circumstances QB, and a decent but not top 10 defense.

 

I fear that we're getting "good enough to win with a decent defense" QB play while putting in ourselves in a position where it will be difficult to make that defense average. The worst of both worlds.

[Jenksismyhero]

You know how people felt like that weird fumble play is something that just never happened with Lovie Smith at the helm?

 

I think Jenks and I think winning is something that just never happens with Cutler around. He's become a middle of the road QB and he consistently quarterbacks middle of the road teams. He has had a variety of different circumstances that can explain that -- s***ty defense now, bad lines before, iffy supporting skill players before, changes in coordinators. If you're the Bears, though, is it crazy to think that maybe we've spent enough time, money, and energy on him? How many people have to lose their jobs because Cutler hasn't played up to expectations? Jerry Angelo, Lovie Smith, Mike Martz, Ron Turner, Mike Tice...not exactly an all-star cast, but you have to wonder at what point you quit trying to make him fit when it never seems to work out.

 

Let's not forget too that another franchise was willing to trade the guy, despite his elite talent.

[chw42]

You know how people felt like that weird fumble play is something that just never happened with Lovie Smith at the helm?

 

I think Jenks and I think winning is something that just never happens with Cutler around. He's become a middle of the road QB and he consistently quarterbacks middle of the road teams. He has had a variety of different circumstances that can explain that -- s***ty defense now, bad lines before, iffy supporting skill players before, changes in coordinators. If you're the Bears, though, is it crazy to think that maybe we've spent enough time, money, and energy on him? How many people have to lose their jobs because Cutler hasn't played up to expectations? Jerry Angelo, Lovie Smith, Mike Martz, Ron Turner, Mike Tice...not exactly an all-star cast, but you have to wonder at what point you quit trying to make him fit when it never seems to work out.

 

A lot of those excuses weren't excuses though. They all had some truth to them.

 

The offensive line, before this year, was awful. Before Marshall got here, his best receiver was Earl freaking Bennett. And how can you argue that the defense is not bad this year? The coordinators thing was an excuse IMO, but Cutler never had a complete offense with the right system around him until this year.

 

And of course, he did improve. A 90 QB rating isn't bad by any means and I think it's the highest of his career. That being said, Josh McCown had a 110 QB rating with the same offense. Although a few of those games were against some of the worst defenses in football, it's still mighty impressive and says a lot about Cutler.

[dasox24]

Outside of the ridiculous Cutler biased crap there is good info there.

 

I still don't think you fire staff after one year. You change players first. The defense was injured and inexperienced. Draft, sign and please coach.

I don't think it's worst thing to make a staff change or two after Year 1. Most HC's don't always know their whole staff and end up realizing they need to make changes. You certainly don't want to make wholesale changes, but making a staff change can be beneficial. Note: I'm speaking in general here. Not only in regards to the Bears.

 

On that note, I wouldn't necessarily get rid of Tucker. I think he did "okay" based on the hand he was dealt - mainly a rash of injuries to key players and lack of talent/depth. He tried to be aggressive this year, which I like. But it's hard when you're trying run a defense with major contributions coming from guys who were on the street at the beginning of this year and/or rookies.

 

As for DeCamillis, I have nothing nice to say about him. He's just not a good coach. If anyone can prove me differently, I'm willing to listen.

Edited December 30, 2013 by dasox24

[G&T]

Let's not forget too that another franchise was willing to trade the guy, despite his elite talent.

 

Are those people employed?

[RockRaines]

Let's not forget too that another franchise was willing to trade the guy, despite his elite talent.

Who? Brandon Marshall?

[chw42]

Are those people employed?

 

McDaniels is back in New England.

Edited December 30, 2013 by chw42

[Kyyle23]

McDaniels is back in New England.

 

I think it is worth noting that this brain trust that couldn't wait to get rid of Cutler used one of those first round picks on his heir apparent, Tim Tebow

 

[chw42]

I think it is worth noting that this brain trust that couldn't wait to get rid of Cutler used one of those first round picks on his heir apparent, Tim Tebow

 

Yeah, using the Denver was willing to trade Cutler argument leads you nowhere.

 

Because Josh McDaniels was straight up crazy.

[Jake]

A lot of those excuses weren't excuses though. They all had some truth to them.

 

The offensive line, before this year, was awful. Before Marshall got here, his best receiver was Earl freaking Bennett. And how can you argue that the defense is not bad this year? The coordinators thing was an excuse IMO, but Cutler never had a complete offense with the right system around him until this year.

 

And of course, he did improve. A 90 QB rating isn't bad by any means and I think it's the highest of his career. That being said, Josh McCown had a 110 QB rating with the same offense. Although a few of those games were against some of the worst defenses in football, it's still mighty impressive and says a lot about Cutler.

 

All of those excuses were true -- that's why they were/are convincing excuses. The lines were pretty bad, the coaching was questionable, and this year's defense is really f***ing bad. It devolved into a thing that may be one of the worst defenses in recent NFL history. There indeed was a time where Earl Bennett was a breath of fresh air as our best WR, which was emblematic of the crap we ran out there at that position.

 

Unfortunately, Jay has never played past those things. This has easily been Jay's best year as a Bear, as it should have been with literally everything going for him. He has the best WR tandem in football, an easy top 5 RB, a revamped line, a true weapon at TE, and a brilliant offensive coordinator. We usually lose because of the defense.

 

McCown was important this year. He showed how simply being semi-accurate, tough, and on top of the mental side of the offense was enough to guide such a talented team to some great offensive production. Maybe it wouldn't overcome the defense, but what do you expect with a journeyman QB? Cutler can do all kinds of stuff that McCown can't and often does those things, but the mental side of Cutler's game looks like a rookie's up against McCown's with all this talent around.

 

If I'm going to go with the expensive QB, I want it to be the guy that at least sometimes will overcome this adversity. Any ol' McCown off the street can win the games the opposing team gives to you. If we're going to go for the big name, big paycheck guy, what I want is a guy who has some history of being so good that he often overcomes all the other bulls***. Today's game could easily, in a vacuum, look like an accumulation of luck for Aaron Rodgers. Over time, though, it seems rather expectable that things would go the way of Aaron Rodgers because he is great and it just doesn't matter that his defenses and offensive lines usually suck.

[Chisoxfn]

Cutler played pretty good today. A few dropped 3rd down balls and some great balls that guys didn't catch. This one is on the defense and the Bears for not making the plays when it counts. Unfortunate but it is what it is. Tucker/De Camilis have to be ousted. Possibly whomever our LB coach too. Cutler played pretty good and in the 2nd half this offense had great flow to it and he had a career high QB Rating. Jay played good enough this year for the Bears to see why it might make sense to invest long term in him and bet on the Trestman/Cutler/Co. relationship offensively.

[StrangeSox]

Great, so your statement was stupid and your repeated arguments in support were equally stupid. I agree.

 

Even if you had couched that though I still would not have agreed. That's a simple, basic football play. 8th graders learn to never give up on a play until the whistle blows. You don't have to have a culture of getting after the ball to know that as a professional football player.

My statement was fine for everyone else, including multiple people who said the same thing.

 

I'm sorry you don't think coaching matters and are so bad at watching a football game that you can't see the difference between how they played under lovie.

 

Edit; to expand a bit, do you think coaching makes no difference between for player discipline, unsportsmanlike penalties, pre-snap penalties, you know since they're taught from the age of 12 not to commit penalties so coaching couldn't possibly matter there.

Edited December 30, 2013 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

Let's not forget too that another franchise was willing to trade the guy, despite his elite talent.

You realize you're trying to enlist the wisdom of Josh McDaniels in favor of your own argument?

 

Edit realize several other people pointed this out already

Edited December 30, 2013 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

All of those excuses were true -- that's why they were/are convincing excuses. The lines were pretty bad, the coaching was questionable, and this year's defense is really f***ing bad. It devolved into a thing that may be one of the worst defenses in recent NFL history. There indeed was a time where Earl Bennett was a breath of fresh air as our best WR, which was emblematic of the crap we ran out there at that position.

 

Unfortunately, Jay has never played past those things. This has easily been Jay's best year as a Bear, as it should have been with literally everything going for him. He has the best WR tandem in football, an easy top 5 RB, a revamped line, a true weapon at TE, and a brilliant offensive coordinator. We usually lose because of the defense.

 

McCown was important this year. He showed how simply being semi-accurate, tough, and on top of the mental side of the offense was enough to guide such a talented team to some great offensive production. Maybe it wouldn't overcome the defense, but what do you expect with a journeyman QB? Cutler can do all kinds of stuff that McCown can't and often does those things, but the mental side of Cutler's game looks like a rookie's up against McCown's with all this talent around.

 

If I'm going to go with the expensive QB, I want it to be the guy that at least sometimes will overcome this adversity. Any ol' McCown off the street can win the games the opposing team gives to you. If we're going to go for the big name, big paycheck guy, what I want is a guy who has some history of being so good that he often overcomes all the other bulls***. Today's game could easily, in a vacuum, look like an accumulation of luck for Aaron Rodgers. Over time, though, it seems rather expectable that things would go the way of Aaron Rodgers because he is great and it just doesn't matter that his defenses and offensive lines usually suck.

This is a good post.

[bmags]

Welcome to the chicago cowboys era.

[dasox24]

Jim Miller said it best - "Jay Cutler didn't play badly. But was it great? No it wasn't." There is a matter of expectations here. Jenks and I are expecting greatness. We traded two first round draft picks for greatness. We've been paying him 10 million dollars per year for greatness. We are apparently considering giving him a 50% raise for greatness. It isn't what we're getting. We're getting the same old inconsistency. Too many possessions just given away by poor throws and decisions. In the game and drive where it mattered most, we came up empty.

 

On non-QB matters, this is something to think about: it wouldn't be difficult to flip into a 3-4 scheme in this offseason. Think about the players under contract/we would want to bring back: all 3 corners (not that all three will come back, but that we would want them all), Briggs under contract, and then you have McClellin and Bostic as key cogs on rookie contracts, and then Ratliff/Wootton as some DL we'd probably like to bring back. All of these guys fit in 3-4. I would love Bostic-Briggs as the ILB. You have McClellin as rushing OLB. Corners are good to go. You need new safeties regardless. Ratliff made his name in the middle of a 3-4 line and Wootton is that perfect mixture of DT/DE to fit as a down lineman in a 3-4. Heck, even our 6th round pick Cornelius Washington would look a lot better as a rushing OLB (look at that guy's combine stats, good gracious).

 

Also, Mel Tucker is a rare breed that has coordinated both 4-3 and 3-4 in the NFL. Our scheme today featured McClellin standing up almost the entire time BTW.

 

With the amount of turnover we expect on D and the personnel that are going to stay, this would be the time to change if Emery and/or Trestman really want to do it.

Personally, I hope they don't switch to the 3-4. I've always been a 4-3 guy and much prefer it. But, you are correct there are current pieces that could make the switch less difficult if they wanted to. The biggest thing would be to get a true NT. I still don't see this happening. I'm almost positive they'll revamp and continue to build on the 4-3.

[Kyyle23]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/12/29/201...bears-schedule/

 

The Bears are also scheduled to play all the teams in the AFC East and NFC South.

 

Here are the Bears’ 2014 opponents (dates and times TBD):

 

Home

New Orleans Saints

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Buffalo Bills

Miami Dolphins

Philadelphia Eagles OR Dallas Cowboys

Detroit Lions

Green Bay Packers

Minnesota Vikings

 

Away

Atlanta Falcons

Carolina Panthers

New England Patriots

New York Jets

San Francisco 49ers

Detroit Lions

Green Bay Packers

Minnesota Vikings

 

 

[Kyyle23]

The #Browns have fired coach Rob Chudzinski, per team source.

 

[dasox24]

It wasn't a huge sample size, but I like what I saw from Marquess Wilson today. He made a nice, clutch catch in traffic (on 3rd down, IIRC). But more importantly, I thought he blocked pretty well. He's another tall receiver (albeit different than Marshall/Jeffery) and could be a really nice piece as a 3rd WR if he continues to grow.

[dasox24]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/12/29/201...bears-schedule/

 

The Bears are also scheduled to play all the teams in the AFC East and NFC South.

 

Here are the Bears’ 2014 opponents (dates and times TBD):

 

Home

New Orleans Saints

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Buffalo Bills

Miami Dolphins

Philadelphia Eagles OR Dallas Cowboys

Detroit Lions

Green Bay Packers

Minnesota Vikings

 

Away

Atlanta Falcons

Carolina Panthers

New England Patriots

New York Jets

San Francisco 49ers

Detroit Lions

Green Bay Packers

Minnesota Vikings

Excited about this game. I'll be there.