2013-2014 NFL Thread

[Kyyle23]

BigSqwerts kid isnt going to college on his dime anymore

[LittleHurt05]

I just got 1 ticket to the game! Went back to ticketmaster and it let me buy one. WOOOT!@!@!!!

 

Sweet, sell it on StubHub!!!!

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Where are you getting this garbage.

 

49ers fan

[iamshack]

Possibly. Honestly, I think all 3 of them are pretty damn good. I jumped into this because Wilson was being called "overrated." I'm not sure how people watch this guy play, look at his numbers and come to that conclusion.

 

And sure, I'll revisit this in 12 months, Wilson is a damn good qb, this I know.

I think Wilson is going to be head and shoulders better than Kaepernick.

 

I look at Wilson, I see a guy who is well-rounded, cerebral, modest, well-spoken, equally as talented running the ball as throwing it, with a special gift for understanding what play needs to be made at any given moment in a game.

 

I look at Kaep, and I see an athletic freak and a reasonably nice young man, but not much else.

 

As for Luck, HE's the guy I think is overrated.

[Kyyle23]

Luck has thrown 8 interceptions in his 3 playoff games. He is going to need to cut down on that

[Paulstar]

Bears announced they will retain defensive coordinator Mel Tucker.

 

It's not a surprising move because Tucker is a good coach, but GM Phil Emery understandably delayed on his decision after Chicago finished 2013 ranked No. 30 in total defense and 31st in points allowed. Per beat writer Brad Biggs' count, MLB D.J. Williams missed ten games and WLB Lance Briggs missed six, while DLs Henry Melton (13 missed games), Nate Collins (11), and Stephen Paea (3) were also injury casualties. Rather than axing Tucker, the Bears are using DL coach Mike Phair and LB coach Tim Tibesar as scapegoats. Put simply, Chicago needs better luck and for Emery to add more talent to field a competitive defense.

 

Per Rotoworld

 

 

Looks like others thought they were scapegoats also.

Scapegoat in this situation would have been Tucker.

 

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but looking at the facts, these two firing make a whole lot more sense than firing Tucker.

 

-Emery has experience with the 3-4 and was pretty successful scouting for the Chiefs 3-4 defense before he came to Chicago. So far in Chicago, he has drafted a lot of guys who are better fits for the 3-4 than the Cover 2 (McClellian, Bostic, Washington, Hardin).

-Trestman had his Canadian teams run a 3-4 defense.

-One of the reasons why Tucker was hired was probably because of his versatility in the 3-4 and 4-3 fronts.

-Phiar was a Lovie guy, and if there is a switch in scheme coming up, he wouldn't fit. Makes perfect sense that he's out.

-Tibesar was a Trestman guy and his firing is actually a little more surprising because he did coach the 3-4 in Canada with Trestman. This, plus some other rumors I've heard about him (always f***ing up teaching Lovie's system, probably didn't command much respect from the LB's) lead me to believe he just wasn't a good coach at this level.

-I'm always going to take whatever some dude says on rotoworld with a grain of salt.

 

If they were gonna fire all the assistants and call them scapegoats, why was Hoke retained? Hoke coached the secondary and we saw how the safeties struggled all year. Hell, why keep any of them? It simply boils down, at least in my opinion, that Trestman has a lot of faith in Tucker and Hoke, and that they plan on bringing in new coaches for the front 7 that will fit whatever new scheme they run. I'd be shocked if they continued to play any form of a base 1-Gap 4-3 which is basically what a cover 2 defense is. I really feel a switch to a 3-4 is coming, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some form of a 2-Gap 4-3 which is really similar to a 3-4 in a lot of ways.

[cabiness42]

Has any team ever tried running a substantial amount of Cover 2 out of a 3-4 base?

[Paulstar]

I think Wilson is going to be head and shoulders better than Kaepernick.

 

I look at Wilson, I see a guy who is well-rounded, cerebral, modest, well-spoken, equally as talented running the ball as throwing it, with a special gift for understanding what play needs to be made at any given moment in a game.

 

I look at Kaep, and I see an athletic freak and a reasonably nice young man, but not much else.

 

As for Luck, HE's the guy I think is overrated.

The guy is special, he just has a lack of talent around him which has led to him trying to make too many things happen all by himself. He basically turned a 2-14 into a playoff team all by himself because nothing much else changed on that team from 2011 to 2012 except their defense.

 

Wilson is the overrated one in my book. Right now he is a glorified Trent Dilfer. Unlike Dilfer, I actually like Wilson though and think he is much more talented than Dilfer to. But so far in his career, he's been in an easy situation to thrive in. He isn't asked to throw the ball much, and has a great defense and running game to support him. Plus, he has a great home field advantage in Seattle to. Put Wilson on the Colts and Luck on Seahawks 2 years ago, and people probably aren't talking about Wilson and instead Colt fans would be saying how much they miss Peyton. In Seattle with Luck, they're probably going to back to back Superbowls.

[Paulstar]

Has any team ever tried running a substantial amount of Cover 2 out of a 3-4 base?

I'm sure its been done. Basically with cover 2, you need 3 or 4 LB's dropping back for underneath coverage. However, a lot of times, the personal with these 3-4 defenses, the LB's are bigger and better in the Run game than they are at dropping back into coverage.

 

If I had to guess, I bet Wade Phillips' 3-4 defense probably ran a lot of cover 2 because he is big into the 1 Gap 3-4 system which really isn't much different than what the Bears and Lovie did upfront as both use penetrating DLineman so they don't have to blitz and can drop the LB's back. I think I also read Bob Diaco's 3-4 at Notre Dame ran a lot of Cover 2 the year they went to the National Championship.

[GoSox05]

I think Wilson is going to be head and shoulders better than Kaepernick.

 

I look at Wilson, I see a guy who is well-rounded, cerebral, modest, well-spoken, equally as talented running the ball as throwing it, with a special gift for understanding what play needs to be made at any given moment in a game.

 

I look at Kaep, and I see an athletic freak and a reasonably nice young man, but not much else.

 

As for Luck, HE's the guy I think is overrated.

 

Modest? Well-spoken?

 

 

He's not running for office.

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

Luck has thrown 8 interceptions in his 3 playoff games. He is going to need to cut down on that

 

This is true, although given his supporting cast they are extra dependent on his passing so he is forced to throw a lot, which leads to more agressiveness & interceptions. In all 3 of those playoff games Luck attemped at least 41 passes. Neither Colin Kaepernick nor Russel Wilson has ever had 40+ pass attempts in a NFL game, regular season or playoffs. It's hard to compare Luck with the other two because the situations and teams are so different.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

The guy is special, he just has a lack of talent around him which has led to him trying to make too many things happen all by himself. He basically turned a 2-14 into a playoff team all by himself because nothing much else changed on that team from 2011 to 2012 except their defense.

 

Wilson is the overrated one in my book. Right now he is a glorified Trent Dilfer. Unlike Dilfer, I actually like Wilson though and think he is much more talented than Dilfer to. But so far in his career, he's been in an easy situation to thrive in. He isn't asked to throw the ball much, and has a great defense and running game to support him. Plus, he has a great home field advantage in Seattle to. Put Wilson on the Colts and Luck on Seahawks 2 years ago, and people probably aren't talking about Wilson and instead Colt fans would be saying how much they miss Peyton. In Seattle with Luck, they're probably going to back to back Superbowls.

 

Especially since he gets to throw to players like Sidney Rice, Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin and Zach Miller. A veritable murderer's row of receiving options.

[pettie4sox]

Modest? Well-spoken?

 

 

He's not running for office.

 

I think he's just referring to him as likeable, which is true. It's hard to dislike the guy because he just seems honored to play the game. Kaep just looks like a thug. Cam is narcissist. That FSU clown can't even speak English.

 

I think that it goes a long way.

Edited January 13, 2014 by pettie4sox

[CrimsonWeltall]

Wilson is the overrated one in my book. Right now he is a glorified Trent Dilfer.

 

Cmon now. He was 9th in passing TDs, 7th in QB rating, 16th in yards, and 4th in yards/attempt. And only Cam and Pryor had more rushing yards. He's a very good quarterback.

[Soxbadger]

Id say that Wilson is more akin to Aikman than Dilfer.

 

Age Tm ▴ Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate

 

Aikman at 26:

 

26 DAL QB 8 16 16 13-3-0 302 473 63.8 3445 23 4.9 14 3.0 87 7.3 6.9 11.4 215.3 89.5

 

Wilson at 25:

 

25 SEA QB 3 16 16 13-3-0 257 407 63.1 3357 26 6.4 9 2.2 80 8.2 8.5 13.1 209.8 101.2

Edited January 13, 2014 by Soxbadger

[iamshack]

Modest? Well-spoken?

 

 

He's not running for office.

Those are very important leadership qualities, for perhaps the most important leadership position in professional sports.

 

Do you think it is by accident that Tom Brady and Peyton Manning lead the way they do? Are looked up to the way they are?

[iamshack]

The guy is special, he just has a lack of talent around him which has led to him trying to make too many things happen all by himself. He basically turned a 2-14 into a playoff team all by himself because nothing much else changed on that team from 2011 to 2012 except their defense.

 

Wilson is the overrated one in my book. Right now he is a glorified Trent Dilfer. Unlike Dilfer, I actually like Wilson though and think he is much more talented than Dilfer to. But so far in his career, he's been in an easy situation to thrive in. He isn't asked to throw the ball much, and has a great defense and running game to support him. Plus, he has a great home field advantage in Seattle to. Put Wilson on the Colts and Luck on Seahawks 2 years ago, and people probably aren't talking about Wilson and instead Colt fans would be saying how much they miss Peyton. In Seattle with Luck, they're probably going to back to back Superbowls.

Oh you are right...Luck has had no talent on the offensive side of the ball...and right again, Wilson has had complete studs around him...

 

[Rowand44]

So we all know Wilson is short, besides that, the biggest knock on him that we got is that his team has a good defense?

[Paulstar]

Cmon now. He was 9th in passing TDs, 7th in QB rating, 16th in yards, and 4th in yards/attempt. And only Cam and Pryor had more rushing yards. He's a very good quarterback.

Im not saying he isn't a good QB, I'm just questioning how good would he be if he wasn't put in such a great situation. This is how I'll put, the Seahawks have won more games in the past two years because of their defense and running game than because of Russel Wilson.

 

And this isn't anything against Russel Wilson, I like him a lot as a QB because he does what he is asked to do. With a team built on defense and running the ball, having someone like Wilson at QB who can manage a game is not a bad thing at all. But what happens if they make it to the Superbowl and face the Broncos or Patriots and they are able to shut down Lynch and Manning/Brady is able to find the holes in their secondary? Do you think Wilson is good enough to be able to put the game on his shoulders be able to dual it out with one of those elite QB's? I highly doubt it. Whenever that has happened these past two years, I bet they lost or it was at least a really close game where the other team had a shot to win it late.

 

Kaepernick is in the same boat, but he has better natural running and throwing ability. However, I doubt either will ever be elite. Luck on the other hand is so close to elite it is scary. I said it before, and I'll say it again. You put Wilson or Kaepernick on a team like the Colts and you have a team that is average at best. You put Luck on the 49ers or Seahawks, you have a superbowl favorite team.

[Paulstar]

Oh you are right...Luck has had no talent on the offensive side of the ball...and right again, Wilson has had complete studs around him...

You do not see the big picture at all, do you? Luck isn't granted the privilege of having the top defense in the league and one of the best ground attacks to support him with. The Colts are a QB driven team. If Luck fails, the whole team fails. If Luck is going good, the team is going good.

 

Wilson can go 0-10 passing, but if Lynch is in beast mode and their defense is playing lights out like they have all season, they still have a shot. I don't understand what is so tough to realize about that.

 

EDIT: Just to clarify, I don't think the Seahawks need to upgrade their QB or that there is anything wrong with having Wilson as their QB. But if I had a choice of having any young QB I wanted, it would easily be Luck 10 out of 10 times.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Paulstar

[Steve9347]

I just got 1 ticket to the game! Went back to ticketmaster and it let me buy one. WOOOT!@!@!!!

Congrats, new Seahawks fan!

 

[Soxbadger]

Before Wilson the Seahawks hadnt been over .500 since 2007.

 

2012 they were 7-9 and Wilson was expected to be a backup.

 

So yeah Lynch and the defense were there in 2012 but when Tavaris Jackson is your QB and throws almost 1 int for every td...

 

Haters going to hate.

[LittleHurt05]

So we all know Wilson is short, besides that, the biggest knock on him that we got is that his team has a good defense?

 

People said the same thing about Rex Grossman!!

 

In Wilson's current role, for the most part he can simply be a game manager. He does an absolutely great job of that and makes very few mistakes. People are just questioning that if the Seahawks were suddenly much more dependent on the passing game, would he perform as well?

[Balta1701]

People said the same thing about Rex Grossman!!

 

In Wilson's current role, for the most part he can simply be a game manager. He does an absolutely great job of that and makes very few mistakes. People are just questioning that if the Seahawks were suddenly much more dependent on the passing game, would he perform as well?

The thing is...IMO if you give a QB several seasons to grow into the role, he will gradually get better at it. Drew Brees didn't become DREW BREES over night. Tom Brady didn't become OMG TOM BRADY overnight. IIRC, when the Patriots won their first super Bowl, Brady was mostly doing the "Game managing" thing. Brady's rating, Yards/attempt were much lower in 2001, got better each year with experience, and even then he had Corey Dillon as a key runner in his final super bowl winning year.

 

The more experience these guys get as the starter, the more likely they can make a "big jump" if they have the athletic ability and mental capacity to do so.

[ptatc]

Has any team ever tried running a substantial amount of Cover 2 out of a 3-4 base?

It's tougher to do as the two LB's in the middle may not have the athletic ability to get to the deep middle zone. They can do it at times but it would be tougher to do as much as the Bears have in the past.