2013-2014 NFL Thread

[iamshack]

You do not see the big picture at all, do you? Luck isn't granted the privilege of having the top defense in the league and one of the best ground attacks to support him with. The Colts are a QB driven team. If Luck fails, the whole team fails. If Luck is going good, the team is going good.

 

Wilson can go 0-10 passing, but if Lynch is in beast mode and their defense is playing lights out like they have all season, they still have a shot. I don't understand what is so tough to realize about that.

 

EDIT: Just to clarify, I don't think the Seahawks need to upgrade their QB or that there is anything wrong with having Wilson as their QB. But if I had a choice of having any young QB I wanted, it would easily be Luck 10 out of 10 times.

No, I see what you are saying, and I agree that Luck has been asked to do more because of his defense.

 

But if you actually just watch each guy play the qb position, Wilson has been extremely skilled at passing the ball, running the ball, pocket awareness, etc. He's been outstanding since about the 4th quarter of the Bears game last year, as far as I am concerned.

 

And having that defense actually does work against you to a point as a young qb as well. Wilson is not always "allowed" or it isn't usually prudent to take risks. He isn't asked to go win many games. Necessity is the mother of invention. Maybe we haven't seen the best of what Russell can do because of that defense he has.

 

 

[Paulstar]

No, I see what you are saying, and I agree that Luck has been asked to do more because of his defense.

 

But if you actually just watch each guy play the qb position, Wilson has been extremely skilled at passing the ball, running the ball, pocket awareness, etc. He's been outstanding since about the 4th quarter of the Bears game last year, as far as I am concerned.

 

And having that defense actually does work against you to a point as a young qb as well. Wilson is not always "allowed" or it isn't usually prudent to take risks. He isn't asked to go win many games. Necessity is the mother of invention. Maybe we haven't seen the best of what Russell can do because of that defense he has.

See, we do pretty much agree. Right now, all I view him as is a really good game manager and a really good athlete with the potential to get better. However, I am not ready to anoint him as a top QB right yet. I want to see how he preforms with his back against a wall, where nothing is going right, and he takes charge and leads the team to a victory. That right there, in my mind, is the difference between a good and great QB. And I think they will beat San Francisco next week, and I am really excited to see him play vs. the Broncos/Patriots as that could be his signature moment as a QB as that is a game where early on it could be a struggle for the Seahawks in all facets and it will be on Wilson to get the team rolling.

[GoSox05]

Those are very important leadership qualities, for perhaps the most important leadership position in professional sports.

 

Do you think it is by accident that Tom Brady and Peyton Manning lead the way they do? Are looked up to the way they are?

 

 

Have you ever watched Tom Brady? He yells, he freaks out. He isn't mild mannered. He isn't a good QB because he is nice to his teammates and is a well spoken "leader".

 

Tom Brady is a good QB because he is smart, he is extremely accurate throwing the football. He can throw down field, he can hit the short passes. He limits mistakes when he plays. He can read defenses, he knows when they are blitzing, he knows when they are dropping more players into coverage. Same goes for Manning, Rodgers, Brees.

 

 

All this talk of well spoken and good leader reminds of the Tim Teabow conversation.

Edited January 13, 2014 by GoSox05

[Soxbadger]

Tom Brady is a good QB because he is smart, he is extremely accurate throwing the football. He can throw down field, he can hit the short passes. He limits mistakes when he plays. He can read defenses, he knows when they are blitzing, he knows when they are dropping more players into coverage. Same goes for Manning, Rodgers, Brees.

 

Watch the pre-draft episode where Wilson works with Gruden. Gruden basically states he is excellent at all of these things and that its criminal people arent thinking of drafting him higher due to his height.

 

But lets not let facts get away with myths.

 

You do know that in college Wilson broke the NCAA record for QB rating, better than Luck/RGIII and he played for a running team.

 

/shrugs

 

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year...v=IA&dest=O

 

Hes not just some fluke.

 

(edit)

 

Tim Tebow???

 

Have you ever even seen Wilson play? He can throw the ball with the best of them.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Soxbadger

[southsider2k5]

Brad Biggs ‏@BradBiggs 2m

 

#Bears DE Corey Wootton, who will be a free agent, underwent successful arthroscopic hip sugrery last week.

Wootton has been bothered by injury for 2 years and a full recovery is projected for him.

Wootton's surgery included hip labrum repair and a decompression of a terminal femoroacetabular impingement.

[GoSox05]

I'm not saying Wilson is a fluke. I think he is a good QB, who could get better, but people have him going into the hall of fame already.

 

All I'm saying is that he is a good, but not a great QB, who is benefiting from being on a team with a really great defense and a great running game. If he played for Miami right now, we wouldn't even mention his name with Luck. Like we don't with Tannehill.

 

Wilson this year attempted 30 passes or more only four times. Compare that with Manning, Luck, Rodgers and Brees. In his last 5 games Wilson is averaging 157 yards per game. He just isn't asked to do that much.

 

I also don't care what records he holds in college. Number three on that list is Kellen Moore.

[Soxbadger]

I'm not saying Wilson is a fluke. I think he is a good QB, who could get better, but people have him going into the hall of fame already.

 

All I'm saying is that he is a good, but not a great QB, who is benefiting from being on a team with a really great defense and a great running game. If he played for Miami right now, we wouldn't even mention his name with Luck. Like we don't with Tannehill.

 

Wilson this year attempted 30 passes or more only four times. Compare that with Manning, Luck, Rodgers and Brees. In his last 5 games Wilson is averaging 157 yards per game. He just isn't asked to do that much.

 

I also don't care what records he holds in college. Number three on that list is Kellen Moore.

 

Who is saying that Wilson is going to the hall of fame?

 

Im pretty sure this all started with someone saying that Kaep is better than Wilson.

 

No one is saying that Wilson is on the same level as Marino, Manning etc.

 

Wilson is more like Montana/Aikman, whether his careers match theirs who knows. But Wilson's 1st/2nd, compare favorably to Aikman's 3rd (which is when the Cowboys got good), so its not hard to believe that Wilson can be a solid qb.

 

And the point of the college stats was that Luck/Wilson played college the same year. So you have multiple teams you can compare them on. In both college and NFL, Wilson has put up superior rating to Luck.

 

Call it "luck" or whatever you want, but Wilson's qb rating has been better the last 3 years than Luck.

 

Im not saying Luck is a HOF QB either, quite possibly none of them are.

[Paulstar]

Watch the pre-draft episode where Wilson works with Gruden. Gruden basically states he is excellent at all of these things and that its criminal people arent thinking of drafting him higher due to his height.

 

But lets not let facts get away with myths.

 

You do know that in college Wilson broke the NCAA record for QB rating, better than Luck/RGIII and he played for a running team.

 

/shrugs

 

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year...v=IA&dest=O

 

Hes not just some fluke.

 

(edit)

 

Tim Tebow???

 

Have you ever even seen Wilson play? He can throw the ball with the best of them.

Gruden gives high praises to every QB in the QB Camp thing he does.

[Soxbadger]

Gruden gives high praises to every QB in the QB Camp thing he does.

 

Watch all of them and youll see the difference with Wilson. He is impressed by the fact he knows multiple offenses and the different route trees for those offenses.

 

So yeah like I said, watch some tape, then come back.

 

(edit)

 

And you still havent explained the Tebow comment. The big knock on Tebow was weak arm. Wilson is generally considered as having a + arm, so not sure what you were getting at.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Soxbadger

[Paulstar]

Watch all of them and youll see the difference with Wilson. He is impressed by the fact he knows multiple offenses and the different route trees for those offenses.

 

So yeah like I said, watch some tape, then come back.

 

(edit)

 

And you still havent explained the Tebow comment. The big knock on Tebow was weak arm. Wilson is generally considered as having a + arm, so not sure what you were getting at.

First off, don't worry about me, I've seen plenty of "tape" (who do you think you are, his coach?). However, I'm actually able to watch Russel Wilson play with an unbiased eye because I don't adore Wilson because he played at my favorite school for one season like you do (I can only assume that you are a Wisconsin fan and that is when you fell in love with him, even though I bet you had no idea who he was before he got to Wisconsin). Maybe you should take off your I LOVE RUSSEL WILSON SO MUCH blinders and realize he hasn't done anything that amazing yet. He's so far been a really good game manager on a team with probably the best defense in the league and one of the best running games. That's a pretty luxurious situation to be in for any damn QB EVER.

 

AND OMG!!!! JOHN GRUDEN SAID HE IS IMPRESSED THAT HE KNOWS MULTIPLE OFFENSES AND DIFFERENT ROUTE TREES????? OMG... big whoopie dee doo. Do you know how big of a fanboy you sound with a statement like that? He said he loved Tebow to and that he should be given a chance, so apparently Tebow is a great QB as well if what Gruden says during a TV show FOR MONEY means that much. I love watching the QB Camp thing and have watched most of them. And one similarity in all of them is that he praises all the QB's he has on there. Why would anyone go on there if John Gruden was just going to piss all over these guys and just point out the stuff their bad at? Come on man, think with your brain and not your hard on for Russel.

 

And guess what, last paragraph was the first time I mentioned Tebow so get your facts straight before you come at me for something I didn't say.

 

Overall, I've been a fan of Russel Wilson since I first saw him play at NC State. And I liked him at Wisconsin to, but also there is no doubt he was in a luxurious situation there as well as Wisconsin was absolutely loaded that year with a great defense, arguably the best OLine in college that year, a great running back, and a couple really good receivers. Russel made a living off of the PA pass that year, throwing it up to Toon or JA who was always wide open 50 yards downfield after they sold power up front.

 

I think Wilson is a really good player with potential to get better. If the 2006 Bears had a Russel Wilson type instead of Rex Grossman, I bet they win the Superbowl. However, I think I want to see how he does if you put his back against a wall and down 38 to 10 at halftime vs. the 49ers before I consider him a great QB by any stretch. Right now he's good with the potential to be even better than that. But potential doesn't mean s*** until you actually see him go out there and do it like Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady have done.

[Jake]

I haven't been super impressed with Wilson's actual production, but he generally gives his team just what it needs. He also has a terrible pass blocking line in front of him and no receiving weapons. I think, from the shoulders up, he is off the charts. He as a very strong arm with a very quick release. Lots to like.

 

Low yardage, but very few mistakes. He has a reputation as an accurate passer, but ranks 17 out 27 in PFF's accuracy percentage (it subtracts throwaways and spikes from your attempts and counts drops as completions).

 

I should also mention that while his pass blockers are regarded as bad and his release is regarded as really quick, he has the longest average time to throw in the NFL -- this is the average time it takes before he throws, is sacked, or begins to scramble. He also has the longest time to attempt, which consider only plays where he throws the ball. Scheme is a variable here, but he is probably holding the ball too long quite often, which is why he has been sacked so much.

 

All in all though, he makes the absolute most of his role. Whether he could do better on a team that needs him to throw for 4500 yards instead of 3300 is yet to be seen. What we do know is that he will give you more production and fewer mistakes per yard than just about anybody.

[iamshack]

Have you ever watched Tom Brady? He yells, he freaks out. He isn't mild mannered. He isn't a good QB because he is nice to his teammates and is a well spoken "leader".

 

Tom Brady is a good QB because he is smart, he is extremely accurate throwing the football. He can throw down field, he can hit the short passes. He limits mistakes when he plays. He can read defenses, he knows when they are blitzing, he knows when they are dropping more players into coverage. Same goes for Manning, Rodgers, Brees.

 

 

All this talk of well spoken and good leader reminds of the Tim Teabow conversation.

I'm not saying that Russell Wilson and Tom Brady are identical as leaders. And heck, for all I know, Russell Wilson will freak out and get angry down the line in his career as well. But watch an interview of all three of these guys. Tell me if they are all modest to a fault, heap praise upon their teammates, are unselfish. Those are leadership qualities which they all have. Now watch them all operate under pressure. Yes, Brady has become a perfectionist, but inside that huddle, he remains calm, and people want to follow him.

 

It is ridiculous for you to think leadership qualities aren't important in a quarterback.

[soxsoxsoxsox]

Whisenhunt to Titans LOLions

 

[BigSqwert]

BigSqwerts kid isnt going to college on his dime anymore

 

Got it on ticketmaster for face value so it wasn't too bad. And no way am I selling this. This is like Ali/Frasier... a heavyweight fight that can't be missed. Plus we don't have work on Monday for MLK day so I'll get hammered.

[Soxbadger]

First off, don't worry about me, I've seen plenty of "tape" (who do you think you are, his coach?). However, I'm actually able to watch Russel Wilson play with an unbiased eye because I don't adore Wilson because he played at my favorite school for one season like you do (I can only assume that you are a Wisconsin fan and that is when you fell in love with him, even though I bet you had no idea who he was before he got to Wisconsin). Maybe you should take off your I LOVE RUSSEL WILSON SO MUCH blinders and realize he hasn't done anything that amazing yet. He's so far been a really good game manager on a team with probably the best defense in the league and one of the best running games. That's a pretty luxurious situation to be in for any damn QB EVER.

 

AND OMG!!!! JOHN GRUDEN SAID HE IS IMPRESSED THAT HE KNOWS MULTIPLE OFFENSES AND DIFFERENT ROUTE TREES????? OMG... big whoopie dee doo. Do you know how big of a fanboy you sound with a statement like that? He said he loved Tebow to and that he should be given a chance, so apparently Tebow is a great QB as well if what Gruden says during a TV show FOR MONEY means that much. I love watching the QB Camp thing and have watched most of them. And one similarity in all of them is that he praises all the QB's he has on there. Why would anyone go on there if John Gruden was just going to piss all over these guys and just point out the stuff their bad at? Come on man, think with your brain and not your hard on for Russel.

 

And guess what, last paragraph was the first time I mentioned Tebow so get your facts straight before you come at me for something I didn't say.

 

Overall, I've been a fan of Russel Wilson since I first saw him play at NC State. And I liked him at Wisconsin to, but also there is no doubt he was in a luxurious situation there as well as Wisconsin was absolutely loaded that year with a great defense, arguably the best OLine in college that year, a great running back, and a couple really good receivers. Russel made a living off of the PA pass that year, throwing it up to Toon or JA who was always wide open 50 yards downfield after they sold power up front.

 

I think Wilson is a really good player with potential to get better. If the 2006 Bears had a Russel Wilson type instead of Rex Grossman, I bet they win the Superbowl. However, I think I want to see how he does if you put his back against a wall and down 38 to 10 at halftime vs. the 49ers before I consider him a great QB by any stretch. Right now he's good with the potential to be even better than that. But potential doesn't mean s*** until you actually see him go out there and do it like Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady have done.

 

I watched Wilson back when he was at NC State. Ive never seen you post in the college football thread, so it doesnt really jive.

 

Its odd that you say "I adore Wilson", when I barely even post about him.

 

Wisconsin had really good WRS??? It had Nick Toon and Jared Abberderis, seriously just quit acting like you actually have watched Wilson more than just in an espn montage. T

 

And what do you mean "like Andrew Luck", in what season in the last 3 years has he:

 

A) Won more games

 

or

 

B) had a better qb rating

 

Than Wilson?

 

Ill hang up now while you continue to slurp Luck's penis. I get your a Luck fan boy, but s*** the guy threw 7 ints in the last 2 games, that isnt something to write home about. And Im not sure if you can really say that Luck hasnt had better wrs either, I mean TY Hilton, Reggie Wayne, or Golden Tate, Sydney Rice and whatever other cluster.

 

I already said that I thought Luck was a better pure passer than Wilson, so it really sounds like youre the one who is idolizing, because its lunacy to put Luck in the category of Manning or Brady.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

I watched Wilson back when he was at NC State. Ive never seen you post in the college football thread, so it doesnt really jive.

 

Its odd that you say "I adore Wilson", when I barely even post about him.

 

Wisconsin had really good WRS??? It had Nick Toon and Jared Abberderis, seriously just quit acting like you actually have watched Wilson more than just in an espn montage. T

 

And what do you mean "like Andrew Luck", in what season in the last 3 years has he:

 

A) Won more games

 

or

 

B) had a better qb rating

 

Than Wilson?

 

Ill hang up now while you continue to slurp Luck's penis. I get your a Luck fan boy, but s*** the guy threw 7 ints in the last 2 games, that isnt something to write home about. And Im not sure if you can really say that Luck hasnt had better wrs either, I mean TY Hilton, Reggie Wayne, or Golden Tate, Sydney Rice and whatever other cluster.

 

I already said that I thought Luck was a better pure passer than Wilson, so it really sounds like youre the one who is idolizing, because its lunacy to put Luck in the category of Manning or Brady.

 

 

Badger, I agree that Wilson is good. He's not better than Luck though. Luck is going to be the best QB in the NFL 5 years from now.

 

[witesoxfan]

Tim Tebow???

 

Have you ever even seen Wilson play? He can throw the ball with the best of them.

 

Re-read his comment.

[GoSox05]

I'm glad Whisenhunt didn't end up in Detroit. Could have been a great match.

[Kyyle23]

I'm glad Whisenhunt didn't end up in Detroit. Could have been a great match.

 

Apparently they are really liking Jim Caldwell.

[LittleHurt05]

Apparently they are really liking Jim Caldwell.

 

And apparently the Ravens are begging Detroit to take him.

[Kyyle23]

Personally I think they need a pretty strong personality and disciplinarian as HC. Schwartz let the inmates run the asylum and it ran right into the ground

[GoSox05]

I think the Lions will always make the wrong move. That is why they have been to the playoffs once in the past 14 years.

 

Last time the Lions one a playoff game was 1992! That's not good.

[witesoxfan]

I think the Lions will always make the wrong move. That is why they have been to the playoffs once in the past 14 years.

 

Last time the Lions one a playoff game was 1992! That's not good.

 

The Chiefs have won a playoff game more recently.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Badger, I agree that Wilson is good. He's not better than Luck though. Luck is going to be the best QB in the NFL 5 years from now.

Probably...Manning, Rodgers, Brady and Brees will have past their peak by then.

 

8 interceptions in 3 playoff games = no good.

Edited January 14, 2014 by MexSoxFan#1

[bmags]

Personally I think they need a pretty strong personality and disciplinarian as HC. Schwartz let the inmates run the asylum and it ran right into the ground

 

I don't know about "Personality", I think lovie was far and away the best choice for them because he runs such disciplined teams that players do not get tired of.

 

But Caldwell is such a LOL move. Regardless of losing Peyton Manning that colts team should not have looked and played as bad as they did.