NBA/NFL age limits

[HuskyCaucasian]

I dont think the NBA should have an age lmit as long as you are a HS graduate.

 

NFL, that's a whole other story. A college freshman would get literally killed in the NFL. NFL players are so big, strong, and fast. You need time to mature physically before you get into the NFL.

[Soxbadger]

An interesting idea for NBA could be to have it be merit based. Some sort of if you graduated HS, got X on the ACT or passed some test, you could opt out of the 1 year requirement.

 

That would actually create an incentive to do good in HS and take it seriously

[StrangeSox]

I dont think the NBA should have an age lmit as long as you are a HS graduate.

 

NFL, that's a whole other story. A college freshman would get literally killed in the NFL. NFL players are so big, strong, and fast. You need time to mature physically before you get into the NFL.

Right, so what NFL team would waste big cap space and a roster spot on a player coming out without being physically capable of playing in the NFL yet? If they re-arranged things to have an actual minor league/development system that's a different story, but with the current rules?

[illinilaw08]

And the other part that is being lost, is that its more about having a legitimate justification. At least in the NFL they are saying its for the safety of the players, most of those guys are staying in college 3+ years. That is a legitimate time commitment.

 

That being said, I do think there should be at minimum some sort of insurance for college athletes in case of injury. That isnt just exclusive basketball or football.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--even--5m...-223714245.html

 

Yahoo actually discussed the insurance policies the NCAA allows athletes to purchase. To sum up, low cost policies that range from coverage of $1M to $5M depending on what tier of athlete they project toward. Athletes are allowed to borrow to take out the policy.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

But the schools and others making billions of dollars off of their play couldn't possibly pay for those policies, that'd ruin the sanctity of the game.

[Soxbadger]

That is a good step. The problem is obviously the guy who gets injured, but can still play badly. So its possible that a guy who gets signed as a UDFA and then cut on week 1 cant claim under the policy.

 

But if they start doing things like that, then there are less concerns for the players. Thats really the goal here (at least for me) to give these guys a better chance at life.

[illinilaw08]

But the schools and others making billions of dollars off of their play couldn't possibly pay for those policies, that'd ruin the sanctity of the game.

 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/coll...base/54955804/1

 

Database of Revenue, Expenses, and Subsidies for all athletic departments. The schools themselves may be making millions, but they have pretty high expenses as well. Not much profit at a lot of schools...

[StrangeSox]

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2009/03/is-ncaa-evil.html

 

In 2006, salaries for coaches and administrators accounted for nearly 32% of total athletic-department expenses.

 

There's plenty of revenue to go around.

[illinilaw08]

That is a good step. The problem is obviously the guy who gets injured, but can still play badly. So its possible that a guy who gets signed as a UDFA and then cut on week 1 cant claim under the policy.

 

But if they start doing things like that, then there are less concerns for the players. Thats really the goal here (at least for me) to give these guys a better chance at life.

 

I agree with this. I've had an idea recently that there should be "basketball" or "football" majors available at D-1 universities. Teach coaching strategies, tie it in with Kineseology (how the body works, nutrition, that kind of thing). Kids don't have to major in those areas if they are on scholarship, but it might help a kid who doesn't want to be in school get something out of the experience...

[southsider2k5]

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2009/03/is-ncaa-evil.html

 

 

 

There's plenty of revenue to go around.

 

Revenue is a garbage number. It means nothing. You might as well use net worth

[southsider2k5]

And the other part that is being lost, is that its more about having a legitimate justification. At least in the NFL they are saying its for the safety of the players, most of those guys are staying in college 3+ years. That is a legitimate time commitment.

 

That being said, I do think there should be at minimum some sort of insurance for college athletes in case of injury. That isnt just exclusive basketball or football.

 

The protection of the overall product and business is a legitimate justification. There is no reason the NBA should have to suffer just because a 15 year old wants to strike it rich.

[Steve9347]

Zoom,

 

But the NBA doesnt want players being paid in NCAA, for a variety of reasons.

Well, one of your ideas was debunked (competing salary-wise for a player, which the NCAA can't do) - so what's just one other reason the NBA doesn't want players being paid in the NBA?

 

You know, since there are a variety of reasons.

[Steve9347]

No but people with money generally are able to get better counsel who can negotiate better for them. I dont think its a big concern, I just think all things being considered the NBA would prefer that they are being sent poor kids who have very little ability to negotiate on their own.

All of these players have agents well before they get their first NBA contract.

[StrangeSox]

Revenue is a garbage number. It means nothing. You might as well use net worth

 

Revenue means how much the team brings in. If some of that revenue is diverted towards student-athletes, then it comes from somewhere else. Maybe the seven-figure salaries of the coaches and administrators.

 

Or do you want to cry poor on behalf of the NCAA colleges now and tell me that, despite being a multi-billion dollar entity, they couldn't possible afford to actually pay the athletes?

[StrangeSox]

The protection of the overall product and business is a legitimate justification. There is no reason the NBA should have to suffer just because a 15 year old wants to strike it rich.

 

You're missing the part where someone in the NBA still has to decide to draft and pay that 15 year old.

[knightni]

This thread is now 12 pages + on my viewer, but I think that all sports should be like hockey. Draft the kid with insurance, then let them finish school.

[Soxbadger]

Steve,

 

I dont think you understand how bargaining power works.

 

If I am a rich person, I can hire any agent, lawyer I want, I have the money.

 

If I am a poor person, I may be able to hire any agent, lawyer I want, it depends on if I have the right case/talent etc.

 

People with money are almost always likely to be better represented than people without money. Just because they have an "agent" doesnt mean they have a good one. Ricky Williams hired Masta P. Im pretty sure if Ricky had some money already and could hire outside counsel, they would have told him that was a very very stupid idea.

 

And I have explained why the NBA doesnt want to deal with people coming in who are already rich and entitled. Its always easier to control someone who has very little. If they dont have the money to lord over their heads, theyd have even more trouble keeping these guys in line.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Soxbadger

[StrangeSox]

I dont think you understand how bargaining power works.

 

If I am a rich person, I can hire any agent, lawyer I want, I have the money.

 

If I am a poor person, I may be able to hire any agent, lawyer I want, it depends on if I have the right case/talent etc.

 

People with money are almost always likely to be better represented than people without money. Just because they have an "agent" doesnt mean they have a good one. Ricky Williams hired Masta P. Im pretty sure if Ricky had some money already and could hire outside counsel, they would have told him that was a very very stupid idea.

 

And I have explained why the NBA doesnt want to deal with people coming in who are already rich and entitled. Its always easier to control someone who has very little. If they dont have the money to lord over their heads, theyd have even more trouble keeping these guys in line.

 

Eh, any star athlete can sign with a big-name agent before they get their first contract. The agent understands when that payday is coming.

[Soxbadger]

Eh, any star athlete can sign with a big-name agent before they get their first contract. The agent understands when that payday is coming.

 

Can they afford another attorney to review the agents work, to make sure the agent isnt ripping them off.

 

There is a price to be paid when you hire someone on a contingent fee. You are stuck in their boat, regardless of how good they are.

 

(edit)

 

The whole agent/attorney thing is actually a completely different issue problem. A lot of these guys dont realize that there is a difference.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Soxbadger

[StrangeSox]

If that attorney is working on a contingency, sure.

 

If a college superstar came to you with a contract to revue, you wouldn't be willing to delay payment until after their contract was signed?

[Balta1701]

Revenue means how much the team brings in. If some of that revenue is diverted towards student-athletes, then it comes from somewhere else. Maybe the seven-figure salaries of the coaches and administrators.

 

Or do you want to cry poor on behalf of the NCAA colleges now and tell me that, despite being a multi-billion dollar entity, they couldn't possible afford to actually pay the athletes?

Revenue for any of these college teams/departments is legitimately a garbage number. They often don't have to account for significant portions of their budget, whether it be things like stadium renovations or construction or the time cost of university administrators who wind up dealing with the athletic departments.

 

In many cases, revenue numbers are rigged to always look positive, by keeping things like stadium costs on the books of the school or state.

 

Furthermore, it's not just funds in and out that matter to these schools. A school could be barely breaking even on its athletic department, but thrilled because a strong team in that department is providing them the equivalent of free advertising across the country (IU!) and whipping up support amongst donors who give to the school's alumni organizations. Conversely, a school could have a profitable athletic department, but if their team isn't ranked in the top 25, people get fired.

[StrangeSox]

Well, if your business model is reliant on the bulk of your labor force going unpaid (and, on top of that, actively forbidding them from getting outside revenue streams), something's inherently flawed.

 

If you could show me that there's a net benefit for NCAA colleges on the academic side (don't a lot of athletics programs lose money?), that would be a point in the NCAA's favor. But you'd still need to explain why you would lose that benefit if student-athletes were compensated.

Edited February 14, 2013 by StrangeSox

[southsider2k5]

Revenue means how much the team brings in. If some of that revenue is diverted towards student-athletes, then it comes from somewhere else. Maybe the seven-figure salaries of the coaches and administrators.

 

Or do you want to cry poor on behalf of the NCAA colleges now and tell me that, despite being a multi-billion dollar entity, they couldn't possible afford to actually pay the athletes?

 

I'm telling you revenue by itself is a meaningless number, much like net worth.

[southsider2k5]

You're missing the part where someone in the NBA still has to decide to draft and pay that 15 year old.

 

I still haven't heard a good reason why the NBA has to allow complete chaos in their draft process.

[Balta1701]

Well, if your business model is reliant on the bulk of your labor force going unpaid (and, on top of that, actively forbidding them from getting outside revenue streams), something's inherently flawed.

Is that really the case though? A whole lot of places have unpaid internships that people are willing to accept because it opens opportunities for them in the future. That's not an inherent flaw...that's the natural response to an extremely competitive industry. A league with 500 total highly paid jobs per year can set enormous entry barriers and still be able to come up with people who are willing to attempt to get through that barrier.

 

If people are truly unhappy with the restrictions of their internship...they can go find a different line of work, right?