NBA/NFL age limits

[Chisoxfn]

Our estate planning paralegal knows more than any ep attorney in our firm. Hilariously she does all of the paperwork, the attorney doesnt even look. Yet she isnt qualified because she doesnt have the time/money to go to law school.

 

 

 

Im not sure what you mean "this is the point" as you quoted 2 different points.

 

The first point is about the fact that there is no "public policy" concern. Regular people arent going to die because they went to a NBA game and Kwame Brown was playing. But they surely could die if a "Doctor" doesn't know what they are doing.

 

As for the part about the NBA protecting their investment, that is exactly the point and why its completely unfair to the 18 year old.

 

The NBA is a billion dollar corporation, it should be the one to carry the risk. Otherwise it should have to pay into an insurance fund for kids in college who get injured so that they have some money.

 

This is a subject Ive been strongly against for like 8 years now. I really hate barriers of entry.

Does it work different in Illinois? In California, she could just take the baby bar and then sit for the bar exam. No requirement to go to law school.

[Soxbadger]

Ha, bad copy and paste.

 

Allowing high school kids to declare let them screw themselves in a different way that wasn't really fair. Guys declared for the draft and hired an agent because they thought they were good enough but most of them aren't. So now the kid made a horrible decision based on bad advice and he can't go to college anymore because he killed his eligibility. They never really had a chance because they tried to skip a step competitively. There were more people that did that than blew out their knee like Noel.

 

Drafting kids out of high school just isn't good for anyone unless you're that one guy out of thousands that can handle it. The NBA just isn't going to stick their neck out on something like that for the rare guy that can handle it. A year in college isn't that big a deal for most of these guys, it's not like they have to actually pass courses and if they're good enough it's a minor roadblock at best. The only guys that get hurt by it are the guys that weren't good enough in the first place or the rare person that gets a career-altering injury (which again, likely isn't the case for Noel).

 

You are explaining exactly why the process is unfair. First of all why should these 18 year olds not be able to hire agents/attorneys to give them good advice? In what world is that fair? The NCAA, NBA and colleges have hundreds of lawyers on their payroll. Yet an 18 year old hires an agent to try and figure out whats good for his life, hes banned from college athletics forever.

 

The entire point of the system is to create an unequal playing field where the first chance for these people to actually negotiate for themselves is what 4-5 years after they have entered the NBA?

 

I understand why you set a system like this up if your the NBA. I just feel that people need to speak out against it. The only people who this rule saves are those who would have declared and not been drafted. But if we really care about the kids, why not make it like baseball, where you can get drafted multiple times?

 

Oh yah because that would give more leverage to the kids, and we dont care about them.

 

Does it work different in Illinois? In California, she could just take the baby bar and then sit for the bar exam. No requirement to go to law school.

 

Yes Cali is basically the outlier. In Illinois you have to go to an ACCREDITED law school. Im guessing that Chicago Law Schools are over $30k a year these days.

[Rex Hudler]

These arguments present false premises.

 

If you pass the bar at X age, you can practice law. A similar comparison would be if the NBA had a skills competition and if you were good enough, you could go to the NBA.

 

So while there are "standards" most of the time they are not based on things like "age" or "HS class".

 

For example, I could have graduated college in less than 3 years. That would have put me a class in front. Would it make sense to say that I have to wait 1 year to go to law school because I was in front of my class? Would it make sense after law school to say I have to sit for 1 year because I was to young?

 

The answer is no.

 

So while you can argue that generally other industries have "skill" requirements, most of those "skills" do not include things like "age." Unless its something that by law you can only do when you are a certain age (ie bar tender).

 

I just do not see why a basketball player should be subjected to similar requirements as a lawyer or doctor. And honestly, I dont believe that anyone should be subjected to those requirements. Lawyer requirements are a joke, its nothing more than a barrier of entry to try and prevent other people from becoming lawyers.

 

But once again, id be fine with something like the bar, where if a basketball player can show proficiency in the sport, that they can play in the NBA.

 

Because the point of the bar, isn't to protect lawyers, its to protect the public at large. And Im not sure what we are protecting the public from when it comes to basketball players getting paid at 18 as opposed to 19.

 

That is merely just an attempt to protect the NBA from bad investments.

 

The NBA is not forcing a kid to go to college. He has every right to go play professionally elsewhere and enter the NBA at a later time. Kids have options, its just that the college programs are the most prevalent one.

 

But you are correct in that they are protecting themselves against a bad investment. Professional sports are much different than other industries, in that they pay millions of dollars based on potential. A High Schooler may be talented enough but may not be mature enough. His development may also be ahead of others and while he is good enough now, he may be close to his ceiling. It is difficult to truly evaluate HS kids when they are only playing against equal talent in the summer for the most part. Given the millions of dollars at stake, I'm perfectly fine with the NBA, or NFL, or MLB having their own entrance requirements. In the case of the NBA, another year of competition, quality coaching and another year of maturity gives them a better opportunity to evaluate and therefore reward correctly.

 

If a player doesn't want to go to college, he could simply sit out a year and roll the dice that he'll still have the same demand upon him. But the bottom line is there is no direct comparison that can be made to other industries. If the NBA had its way, it would rather have a 2-year requirement. As a college fan, so would I!

[Rex Hudler]

What are all these industries that have rules that prevent companies from hiring people at any age?

 

The only professions that are generally regulated this way, are professions where the public interest is involved. And the reason the govt argues that they have the ability to regulate is because regular people will be hurt.

 

United States President!

[Soxbadger]

Its unfair. The system is created to take advantage of the disproportionate negotiating power of the NCAA/NBA versus an 18 year old kid. Even worse (imo) there are biases that have played into how different sports are treated.

 

 

Baseball- 18 you can be drafted and make money.

 

Hockey- 18 you can be drafted and make money.

 

Soccer- 18 you can be drafted and make money. (Adu played at 14)

 

Yet NBA and NFL are different?

 

I want to encourage more kids to go to college, not to go to Europe. I want what is best for these kids, even if it costs the NBA a few million each year. The NBA can afford to make those mistakes, when one of these kids make a mistake, it likely will change their entire life for the worse.

 

I just dont think thats fair, given the substantial difference in wealth.

[Soxbadger]

United States President!

 

That is a govt restriction.

 

I am asking for a restriction created by a private industry like the NBA or NFL.

[Rex Hudler]

Its unfair. The system is created to take advantage of the disproportionate negotiating power of the NCAA/NBA versus an 18 year old kid. Even worse (imo) there are biases that have played into how different sports are treated.

 

 

Baseball- 18 you can be drafted and make money.

 

Hockey- 18 you can be drafted and make money.

 

Soccer- 18 you can be drafted and make money. (Adu played at 14)

 

Yet NBA and NFL are different?

 

I want to encourage more kids to go to college, not to go to Europe. I want what is best for these kids, even if it costs the NBA a few million each year. The NBA can afford to make those mistakes, when one of these kids make a mistake, it likely will change their entire life for the worse.

 

I just dont think thats fair, given the substantial difference in wealth.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly. How many companies require a college degree for certain positions? How many give major preference to degreed candidates over one without a degree? You yourself said the paralegal knew more about law, but has a barrier to entry to become a lawyer because she can't afford to do the schooling. It happens in all walks of life.

 

You said you want what's best for these kids. What about the kid who gets drafted and millions, isn't mature enough to handle it and blows his money and is out of the league by 22. Is it is his best interest that the NBA had no entry requirements? Hell no.

 

If you want to make the argument about the NBA developing their own farm system like baseball does, have at it. But as it is, a kid that has to go through a year of college before he can have access to millions isn't hurting the kid. In fact, in 99% of the cases, it can do nothing but help him, assuming he can actually play at that level. The crime is the college coaches who coddle these kids, don't make them go to class and learn responsibility and discipline.

 

 

Oh, and Go Hoosiers!!

 

[Soxbadger]

I disagree wholeheartedly. How many companies require a college degree for certain positions? How many give major preference to degreed candidates over one without a degree? You yourself said the paralegal knew more about law, but has a barrier to entry to become a lawyer because she can't afford to do the schooling. It happens in all walks of life.

 

You said you want what's best for these kids. What about the kid who gets drafted and millions, isn't mature enough to handle it and blows his money and is out of the league by 22. Is it is his best interest that the NBA had no entry requirements? Hell no.

 

If you want to make the argument about the NBA developing their own farm system like baseball does, have at it. But as it is, a kid that has to go through a year of college before he can have access to millions isn't hurting the kid. In fact, in 99% of the cases, it can do nothing but help him, assuming he can actually play at that level. The crime is the college coaches who coddle these kids, don't make them go to class and learn responsibility and discipline.

 

 

Oh, and Go Hoosiers!!

 

Rex,

 

Once again, if a NBA team does not want to draft HS players, they dont have to. But the NBA is making a rule to prevent "companies" from hiring these kids. Thats collusion. You cant do that in most industries. And even then, even if the position says "College Degree Required" if you are the best, if you are the Lebron James of that field, they are going to make an exception.

 

I would like to see evidence that someone who had 1 year of college is better at not spending their money than someone with no college. You cant just assume that.

 

What I can say with almost absolute certainty is that 90% of the people on this earth will never make $10million in their life time. So if you are offered $10mil+, it is insanity to put that off for a year even if the risk is .0001%. Its insane.

 

Or if we are worried about kids making bad decisions with money, why not set up a NFP that provides investment to these kids, that helps them, that teaches them how to save money etc.

 

This isnt about the player, its about NBA owners making an extra million each year. Those are guys who are for the most part already worth millions. Why does the NBA need to protect Jerry Reinsdorf or Mark Cuban from making a bad investment? These guys know what they are doing. Why do they even need more help to screw these kids?

[knightni]

Dookie Howser

Haha!

[Rex Hudler]

Rex,

 

Once again, if a NBA team does not want to draft HS players, they dont have to. But the NBA is making a rule to prevent "companies" from hiring these kids. Thats collusion. You cant do that in most industries. And even then, even if the position says "College Degree Required" if you are the best, if you are the Lebron James of that field, they are going to make an exception.

 

I would like to see evidence that someone who had 1 year of college is better at not spending their money than someone with no college. You cant just assume that.

 

What I can say with almost absolute certainty is that 90% of the people on this earth will never make $10million in their life time. So if you are offered $10mil+, it is insanity to put that off for a year even if the risk is .0001%. Its insane.

 

Or if we are worried about kids making bad decisions with money, why not set up a NFP that provides investment to these kids, that helps them, that teaches them how to save money etc.

 

This isnt about the player, its about NBA owners making an extra million each year. Those are guys who are for the most part already worth millions. Why does the NBA need to protect Jerry Reinsdorf or Mark Cuban from making a bad investment? These guys know what they are doing. Why do they even need more help to screw these kids?

 

You're take is they are screwing the kids. Opinions vary. The way I see it, it is their league and they can choose how they want to deal with it. Again, the kids can still play basketball if they don't like it. They can go play in Europe. The barrier you are so against is really only a delay to one outlet of playing basketball for money. Others are open, should they choose to take that path.

 

You can call them companies all you want, but sports is different than business. You don't see things like profit sharing, mandated revenue sharing, salary caps, etc in private business. Trying to equate professional sports to business and industry is comparing apples to spinach.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Rex Hudler

[Kyyle23]

Plus Senator and Representative. Most elected bodies have age requirements.

 

Government doesnt count in his argument. only private companies

 

To me its simple, it is a private company, there are alternatives for the players(foreign leagues, college). Is the NBA taking advantage of a situation? Sure, but any successful company would take advantage of a situation like that in order to protect its employees from being dumb with their assets.

[southsider2k5]

Government doesnt count in his argument. only private companies

 

To me its simple, it is a private company, there are alternatives for the players(foreign leagues, college). Is the NBA taking advantage of a situation? Sure, but any successful company would take advantage of a situation like that in order to protect its employees from being dumb with their assets.

 

All companies use this indirectly. Instead of an age specifically, they use a high school diploma or college degree.

[Soxbadger]

Because people dont seem to like this conversation I wont go any further because it seems to be a wall, so this is my last post.

 

HS diploma and college diploma are MERIT based criteria. Age is not merit based. If the NBA criteria was you had to have a COLLEGE DEGREE, then it would be comparable. But that is not the requirement, nor is the requirement a HS diploma.

 

Either of those requirements would potentially limit the NBA from getting the best basketball player.

 

People keep mentioning govt age requirements. As if just because the govt does something it means its smart, right or good. And regardless no one has tried to explain how the NBA age limit is for PUBLIC policy. The age requirements on President, Congress, etc, is so that REGULAR people dont get hurt.

 

But that is enough of this conversation. It is unlikely going to change, I just feel bad that the NCAA/NBA dont care about these kids. They make rules to screw them at every turn, and for what? Just so that they can make a little more money. Greed like that makes me angry.

[Kyyle23]

Because people dont seem to like this conversation I wont go any further because it seems to be a wall, so this is my last post.

 

HS diploma and college diploma are MERIT based criteria. Age is not merit based. If the NBA criteria was you had to have a COLLEGE DEGREE, then it would be comparable. But that is not the requirement, nor is the requirement a HS diploma.

 

Either of those requirements would potentially limit the NBA from getting the best basketball player.

 

People keep mentioning govt age requirements. As if just because the govt does something it means its smart, right or good. And regardless no one has tried to explain how the NBA age limit is for PUBLIC policy. The age requirements on President, Congress, etc, is so that REGULAR people dont get hurt.

 

But that is enough of this conversation. It is unlikely going to change, I just feel bad that the NCAA/NBA dont care about these kids. They make rules to screw them at every turn, and for what? Just so that they can make a little more money. Greed like that makes me angry.

 

I can split this conversation. I dont think people dont like it, I think they want more College BBall talk in this thread.

[Soxbadger]

Thats fine I just meant I didnt want the NCAA thread to turn into 10 pages about NBA draft rules

[Kyyle23]

Uno momento, under construction.....

[ChiSox_Sonix]

They should do what baseball does. If you wanna come out after high school, go for it, if you don't - three years

[Soxbadger]

They should do what baseball does. If you wanna come out after high school, go for it, if you don't - three years

 

I also believe that baseball allows for a player to be drafted multiple times and not lose eligibility.

 

Im fine with some restrictions. I just think that they should be in favor of the student, not in favor of the professional league.

[StrangeSox]

I don't see why these kids should be forced to make money for the NCAA for 1-3 years while receiving no compensation for themselves.

[LittleHurt05]

I don't see why these kids should be forced to make money for the NCAA for 1-3 years while receiving no compensation for themselves.

 

That's a whole other discussion in itself.

[Kyyle23]

I also believe that baseball allows for a player to be drafted multiple times and not lose eligibility.

Im fine with some restrictions. I just think that they should be in favor of the student, not in favor of the professional league.

 

 

Are they able to hire an agent though? I think that is the kicker with NFL/NBA, once they hire an agent they remove their amateur status

[StrangeSox]

That's a whole other discussion in itself.

 

I'd be more accepting of the current age restrictions if they could be adequately compensated for the billions of dollars they generate.

[southsider2k5]

I don't see why these kids should be forced to make money for the NCAA for 1-3 years while receiving no compensation for themselves.

 

They don't. They can go to Europe if they don't like the NBA's rules.

[Kyyle23]

That's a whole other discussion in itself.

 

I dont think it is a completely different discussion though, I think it somewhat dovetails into it.

 

Say these kids are finally getting a cut of the pie, are we still complaining it isnt fair? Say Noel is making, i dont know, a couple hundred K at Kentucky, getting his degree(right), and his surgery and rehab is all covered, does the age limit to enter the NBA seem to be not as big of a deal?

[StrangeSox]

They're forced to take unpaid jobs that generate billions of dollars for others or to leave the country for at least a year.