NBA/NFL age limits

[southsider2k5]

Because people dont seem to like this conversation I wont go any further because it seems to be a wall, so this is my last post.

 

HS diploma and college diploma are MERIT based criteria. Age is not merit based. If the NBA criteria was you had to have a COLLEGE DEGREE, then it would be comparable. But that is not the requirement, nor is the requirement a HS diploma.

 

Either of those requirements would potentially limit the NBA from getting the best basketball player.

 

People keep mentioning govt age requirements. As if just because the govt does something it means its smart, right or good. And regardless no one has tried to explain how the NBA age limit is for PUBLIC policy. The age requirements on President, Congress, etc, is so that REGULAR people dont get hurt.

 

But that is enough of this conversation. It is unlikely going to change, I just feel bad that the NCAA/NBA dont care about these kids. They make rules to screw them at every turn, and for what? Just so that they can make a little more money. Greed like that makes me angry.

 

Age requirements in the NFL especially are so underdeveloped kids don't get killed by much bigger and more mature players.

 

And why can't private industry regulate itself, why government can and should? That doesn't make any sense.

[southsider2k5]

They're forced to take unpaid jobs that generate billions of dollars for others or to leave the country for at least a year.

 

They aren't forced to do anything. They can do something else if they don't like it.

[StrangeSox]

They aren't forced to do anything. They can do something else if they don't like it.

 

That's just restating "that's the way things are," not justify why they should be that way.

 

If they want a basketball career, they have to leave the country or play for a college with no play, probably for a coach making millions of dollars a year if they're good enough that they would have been drafted right out of HS. Why does that system make any sense?

[witesoxfan]

You must be, atleast in ND, 19 to serve alcohol at a restaurant. You must be 21 years old to work in a liquor store.

 

I don't necessarily agree with the NBA's rule, but full understand the NFL's. They feel it is simply too dangerous to play progressionally unless you are 3 years removed from college graduation. The problem therein lies with a guy like Amobi Okoye who graduated at 20 years of age. Those examples are so few and far in between that I think their rule is probably the best.

 

Saying "you must have two years experience" or "internship required" or whatever else is merit based. There are absolutely some jobs where they will not consider you unless you have experience. Consider their year in college or Europe to be an internship to gain experience, and it's not nearly as unruly.

[ptatc]

Our estate planning paralegal knows more than any ep attorney in our firm. Hilariously she does all of the paperwork, the attorney doesnt even look. Yet she isnt qualified because she doesnt have the time/money to go to law school.

 

 

 

Im not sure what you mean "this is the point" as you quoted 2 different points.

 

The first point is about the fact that there is no "public policy" concern. Regular people arent going to die because they went to a NBA game and Kwame Brown was playing. But they surely could die if a "Doctor" doesn't know what they are doing.

 

As for the part about the NBA protecting their investment, that is exactly the point and why its completely unfair to the 18 year old.

 

The NBA is a billion dollar corporation, it should be the one to carry the risk. Otherwise it should have to pay into an insurance fund for kids in college who get injured so that they have some money.

 

This is a subject Ive been strongly against for like 8 years now. I really hate barriers of entry.

For sports teams I think they are a must. Coming out of high school most of them are far too immature physically and socially/emotionally. Physically it does the league and the player a disservice because they are an injury waiting to happen and can be a danger to themselves and others around them.

Socially/emotionally they do not handle becoming a millionaire over night very well. Between the entourages and people taking advantage of it or the late night scene, it really is a disservice to them. I've seen far too many players just not handle it well at a young age.

[StrangeSox]

Age requirements in the NFL especially are so underdeveloped kids don't get killed by much bigger and more mature players.

 

Does that restriction need to exist, though? Would an NFL team actually draft and play an 18-19 year old who wasn't physically mature?

[StrangeSox]

You must be, atleast in ND, 19 to serve alcohol at a restaurant. You must be 21 years old to work in a liquor store.

 

I don't necessarily agree with the NBA's rule, but full understand the NFL's. They feel it is simply too dangerous to play progressionally unless you are 3 years removed from college graduation. The problem therein lies with a guy like Amobi Okoye who graduated at 20 years of age. Those examples are so few and far in between that I think their rule is probably the best.

 

Saying "you must have two years experience" or "internship required" or whatever else is merit based. There are absolutely some jobs where they will not consider you unless you have experience. Consider their year in college or Europe to be an internship to gain experience, and it's not nearly as unruly.

 

But that's the league setting requirements for individual teams, not exactly the same as an individual company or manager setting requirements for a certain position. If Lebron James were coming out of HS this year, why shouldn't the team with the #1 pick be able to take him?

[witesoxfan]

Does that restriction need to exist, though? Would an NFL team actually draft and play an 18-19 year old who wasn't physically mature?

 

Baseball teams do. Why wouldn't NFL teams? If you can draft a player with the upside of Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III or Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in the 5th or 8th round, and you can let them grow and develop on your practice squad for 3 years or carry them around as a backup? Yeah, I think a lot of teams would take the minimal investment that would take.

[southsider2k5]

That's just restating "that's the way things are," not justify why they should be that way.

 

If they want a basketball career, they have to leave the country or play for a college with no play, probably for a coach making millions of dollars a year if they're good enough that they would have been drafted right out of HS. Why does that system make any sense?

 

It's a private entity that wants to protect itself. Why should a private entity not be able to protect itself against legitimate risks to its own existence? By this logic, the NBA should be able to draft LeBron's kids as soon as they are born, because they shouldn't have to wait to suffer the potential fate have having more of moms gene's than dads.

[ptatc]

I don't see why these kids should be forced to make money for the NCAA for 1-3 years while receiving no compensation for themselves.

Because the NBA doesn't want to spend the money on a true minor league system.

[StrangeSox]

For sports teams I think they are a must. Coming out of high school most of them are far too immature physically and socially/emotionally. Physically it does the league and the player a disservice because they are an injury waiting to happen and can be a danger to themselves and others around them.

Socially/emotionally they do not handle becoming a millionaire over night very well. Between the entourages and people taking advantage of it or the late night scene, it really is a disservice to them. I've seen far too many players just not handle it well at a young age.

 

How does that really change after 1 fake year of college, though? Wouldn't the whole college scene and the wider national exposure make the late night scene and the hangers-on even worse?

[southsider2k5]

Does that restriction need to exist, though? Would an NFL team actually draft and play an 18-19 year old who wasn't physically mature?

 

If the risk was losing the next RGIII? They would draft them, and have it hurt the team until they maybe matured to help the team.

[witesoxfan]

But that's the league setting requirements for individual teams, not exactly the same as an individual company or manager setting requirements for a certain position. If Lebron James were coming out of HS this year, why shouldn't the team with the #1 pick be able to take him?

 

Because the NBA requires you have experience in a different market before entering. They are an elite organization in American society, they can do so.

[StrangeSox]

Baseball teams do. Why wouldn't NFL teams? If you can draft a player with the upside of Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III or Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in the 5th or 8th round, and you can let them grow and develop on your practice squad for 3 years or carry them around as a backup? Yeah, I think a lot of teams would take the minimal investment that would take.

 

Ok, but then they're being kept on a practice squad and not subjected to actual game NFL physical requirements. Why would you even want play an undeveloped, undersized linemen?

 

RGIII does represent a decent counter, though, because teams will obviously put the players in dangerous situations.

[LittleHurt05]

I dont think it is a completely different discussion though, I think it somewhat dovetails into it.

 

Say these kids are finally getting a cut of the pie, are we still complaining it isnt fair? Say Noel is making, i dont know, a couple hundred K at Kentucky, getting his degree(right), and his surgery and rehab is all covered, does the age limit to enter the NBA seem to be not as big of a deal?

 

I'm not as bothered about the unviersities not paying the players, as much as the NCAA rules prohibiting side jobs or accepting any kind of benefits from people on the side.

 

If someone wants to give the kid money or a bulls*** job because he can play b-ball, who cares? Who is the NCAA to stop it, when they leech money from corporations everywhere during bowl season.

[StrangeSox]

If the risk was losing the next RGIII? They would draft them, and have it hurt the team until they maybe matured to help the team.

 

Could you actually evaluate HS talent as "the next RGIII?"

[Soxbadger]

Are they able to hire an agent though? I think that is the kicker with NFL/NBA, once they hire an agent they remove their amateur status

 

Id be fine if the rule was that you can enter the NBA draft, but you cant hire an agent if you want to retain eligibility. That way if you are not drafted, you just go to college. Maybe the rule is that if you go into the draft and you arent drafted you cant enter again for 2 years. That way you can choose when you want to test the market.

 

I'd be more accepting of the current age restrictions if they could be adequately compensated for the billions of dollars they generate.

 

Completely agree. If they were making $50k a year, they could use that money to buy insurance etc.

 

Age requirements in the NFL especially are so underdeveloped kids don't get killed by much bigger and more mature players.

 

And why can't private industry regulate itself, why government can and should? That doesn't make any sense.

 

Ive only discussed the NBA. The NFL is different because you can at least argue that it is for the safety of the players and in the football it is widely accepted to have rules about age/weight classes even when kids are young. In basketball there are stories of 8th graders on varsity teams etc. Because basketball is not as physical.

 

Why cant an industry discriminate?

 

I dont know because we have laws against that. Whether they be anti-trust or discrimination, the law generally does not allow for a group of people to arbitrarily create a rule that prevents access to other people. Usually in order to do something like that, you need a public policy concern.

 

Hence why being a lawyer/dr isnt tied to age, it is tied to merit. Because its patently unfair to say that someone who is 17 isnt as good as someone who is 18, even if every merit based test would suggest otherwise. Age in and of itself is generally not a good indication of skill or talent level.

 

That being said, because the rules are made by people over 18, it is okay to discriminate based on youth, but it is not okay to discriminate based on being to old.

 

For example, if the NFLset a rule that you have to retire when you hit 35, it would likely be perceived as unconstitutional. Yet when they make a rule that you have to be X years old to enter, its okay.

 

That is the type of hypocrisy that I cant stand.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Soxbadger

[Soxbadger]

Because the NBA requires you have experience in a different market before entering. They are an elite organization in American society, they can do so.

 

No they dont.

 

If you sit out for 1 year and do nothing but get high and play video games, you can be drafted. They do not want to tie this to merit at all.

[StrangeSox]

It's a private entity that wants to protect itself. Why should a private entity not be able to protect itself against legitimate risks to its own existence? By this logic, the NBA should be able to draft LeBron's kids as soon as they are born, because they shouldn't have to wait to suffer the potential fate have having more of moms gene's than dads.

 

I'm not making the legal argument that soxbadger is making. I'm saying it's a dumb rule that should be changed.

 

And no, by that logic, you don't automatically extend draft rights to minors, stop being silly. Plus it'd be dumb anyway e.g. Jordan's kid and 18 years until payoff of a pick.

[StrangeSox]

Because the NBA requires you have experience in a different market before entering. They are an elite organization in American society, they can do so.

Sure, they can. I'm not arguing that they should be legally forbidden from having this (imo) dumb rule, just that it's dumb and unfair to the handful of 18 yo's that would be drafted right out of HS. I probably wouldn't care if 'student'-athletes were compensated.

[Soxbadger]

NBA teams should be able to draft Lebrons kid. Now obviously US law would make it pretty difficult for that kid to be a worthwhile, but an NBA team should absolutely be able to waste $5mil per year and a roster space on a 5 year old.

 

Hollywood hires child actors.

[Steve9347]

Players get hurt. The NBA's rules were in part because it was killing the game. Teams were drafting 18 year olds based on potential. Hell, BJ Mullens would have been a top 5 pick had he not been forced to make an ass of himself at Ohio State for a year.

 

Teams going all in on guys straight out of high school rarely worked out, and wasted tons of years of development. So the NBA protected itself by forcing these kids to gain a bit of experience on the big stage against better competition while also getting a year older.

 

So Nerlens Noel got injured - no one forced him to play. I'm sure the free ride, the campus celebrity, the national television, the p**** train, these are all things he enjoyed. He got hurt - he'll still be a top 5 pick, and the NBA was saved a year of watching him play 12 mpg and look like general s*** on the court for the Toronto Raptors or some s***.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Steve9347

[southsider2k5]

Could you actually evaluate HS talent as "the next RGIII?"

 

MLB, and hockey do it.

[southsider2k5]

Ok, but then they're being kept on a practice squad and not subjected to actual game NFL physical requirements. Why would you even want play an undeveloped, undersized linemen?

 

RGIII does represent a decent counter, though, because teams will obviously put the players in dangerous situations.

 

No they aren't. You have to go through waivers to be a on a practice squad.

[Steve9347]

MLB, and hockey do it.

Major League Baseball has 40 rounds in their f***ing draft, and most teams have four full-time minor league teams to fill, plus short-season leagues. Then there's that big league team. That requires a lot of players.

 

They can afford to burn picks on players based on pure potential while they still have peach fuzz on the johnsons.

 

The NBA was f***ing brutal in the early 2000s because of all the s***bomb high schoolers being drafted.