NBA/NFL age limits

[Soxbadger]

They are compensated, not only with their "education," room and board, food, perks, etc. but also by the free marketing/advertising they get for their future careers (speaking to the "stars" of college athletics.

 

Its true they are compensated.

 

What I am talking about is the vast difference in negotiating power. Even if a college wants to do more for a kid (give them more perks etc) they arent able to because of the NCAA.

 

That is part of the reason I hate the NBA rule so much. If these colleges were allowed to break the bank and do whatever they wanted for the kids, then it would at least be somewhat fair to have them go to college. But as it is, they cant get paid when they are in the NCAA, so its a double screw job.

[StrangeSox]

They don't get actual compensation, are legally forbidden from receiving it and would have otherwise been making millions of dollars that same year.

 

Meanwhile, in many states college coaches are the highest-paid "public" employee and the NCAA recently signed a $10B+ TV contract for the tournament.

[witesoxfan]

Robert Swift and Sebastian Telfair so bad, you gotta name them twice.

 

Glad you didn't list Shawn Livingston, who actually suffered an even worse fate than Nerlens but had already gotten paid.

[StrangeSox]

Kobe went 13th behind perennial greats such as Lorenzen Wright, Samaki Walker, Erick Dampier, Todd Fuller and Vitaly Potapenko. There was legitimate discussion of Dwight vs Emeka. KG went 5th.

 

Meanwhile, teams spent years on wasted picks like Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry, Darius Miles, Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green, Jonathan Bender, DeSagna Diop, Robert Swift, Martell Webster, Dorrell Wright, Leon Smith, DeShawn Stevenson, Travis Outlaw, Ndudi Ebi, Robert Swift, Sebastian Telfair, CJ Miles - all the while the product on the floor suffered. Meanwhile, we're in the midst of one of the best eras of entertainment the NBA has ever seen, but Nerlens Noel clumsily flies into a basketball hoop and now the rules have to go back to that garbage? Pass. s*** happens.

 

Who was being passed over for those s***ty HS players, though? Maybe the talent pool just sucked at that time?

 

Wait, without the one-and-done rule, Rose would not be a Bull. Never mind, fully support it, I'll direct all of my dislike at the NCAA.

Edited February 14, 2013 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

Steve,

 

Why arent you listing all the bad picks that went to college?

 

Someone drafted Sam Bowie over MJ. Someone drafted Oden over Durant.

 

I think there are more bad picks than good picks, and since the majority of picks went to college...

[Jenksismyhero]

So why can't the NBA draft "grown men" (is a 19 year old college superstar a "grown man"? I know I was still immature as hell my sophomore year) without a hard rule against the occasional HS draftee?

 

They're not being paid to go to school, they're getting a full scholarship for a year and then, if they were good enough to be drafted right out of HS, they'll be gone. They're not there for the classes, and if they are injured to the point that their NBA career is gone, then they'll be losing their athletic scholarship as well. If they were actually being paid appropriately for the revenue they generate, that'd be different.

 

Then say goodbye to womens sports and basically every sport but basketball and football for most universities. On top of that, how would you go about determining what a player is worth in college?

 

I hate the NCAA as much as the next guy, but paying athletes IMO is a terribly stupid idea and would absolutely kill everything that's special about college sports. I'm fine with schools profiting off of a few star athletes. More people profit from that system.

[StrangeSox]

Wasn't there debate over who should go #1, Rose or Beasley?

[Steve9347]

Steve,

 

Why arent you listing all the bad picks that went to college?

 

Someone drafted Sam Bowie over MJ. Someone drafted Oden over Durant.

 

I think there are more bad picks than good picks, and since the majority of picks went to college...

Yes, but there's zero doubt that the college players who have more experience can contribute meaningful bench minutes regardless, and aren't complete wastes crushing the on-court game. Everyone here has been talking about how great the game is now compared to the era that was crushed by players jumping straight to the pros over in the NBA thread, now you all want to see that ruined because a guy got hurt in college while getting tons of national publicity and free room and board. It's not a travesty.

[Jenksismyhero]

Its true they are compensated.

 

What I am talking about is the vast difference in negotiating power. Even if a college wants to do more for a kid (give them more perks etc) they arent able to because of the NCAA.

 

That is part of the reason I hate the NBA rule so much. If these colleges were allowed to break the bank and do whatever they wanted for the kids, then it would at least be somewhat fair to have them go to college. But as it is, they cant get paid when they are in the NCAA, so its a double screw job.

 

Then it just comes down to who has better (and richer) alumni. I'm not in favor of that at all either. That's exactly why NCAA football sucks and you realistically only have about 10 teams every year with a prayer of playing for the national championship.

[witesoxfan]

Then say goodbye to womens sports and basically every sport but basketball and football for most universities. On top of that, how would you go about determining what a player is worth in college?

 

I hate the NCAA as much as the next guy, but paying athletes IMO is a terribly stupid idea and would absolutely kill everything that's special about college sports. I'm fine with schools profiting off of a few star athletes. More people profit from that system.

 

It does open a huge can of worms if you pay someone or some athletic group but not others. Or if you pay the entire athletic department, why not pay other smaller, competitive organziations around campus?

[Steve9347]

I hate the NCAA as much as the next guy, but paying athletes IMO is a terribly stupid idea and would absolutely kill everything that's special about college sports. I'm fine with schools profiting off of a few star athletes. More people profit from that system.

Successful college teams and interest in the NCAA allows scholarships to be given across all sports - women's/men's etc. Great point.

 

BUT OH NO NERLENS NOEL WILL ONLY GO 5TH IN THE DRAFT INSTEAD OF 1ST OH NOOOO WHAT WILL HE DO WITH HIS LIFE?!

[Soxbadger]

Then say goodbye to womens sports and basically every sport but basketball and football for most universities. On top of that, how would you go about determining what a player is worth in college?

 

I hate the NCAA as much as the next guy, but paying athletes IMO is a terribly stupid idea and would absolutely kill everything that's special about college sports. I'm fine with schools profiting off of a few star athletes. More people profit from that system.

 

Which is why I want to keep the systems separate. Those guys who dont really want to be a part of the college system, can go to the pros and they dont have to corrupt the NCAA further. Those who want to be there, they understood the agreement when they came to play.

 

[StrangeSox]

Then say goodbye to womens sports and basically every sport but basketball and football for most universities. On top of that, how would you go about determining what a player is worth in college?

 

Recruiting. "Hey, Cam Newton, we'll pay you $x a year to play at Ohio!" "We'll pay you $2x to play at Alabama!"

 

I hate the NCAA as much as the next guy, but paying athletes IMO is a terribly stupid idea and would absolutely kill everything that's special about college sports. I'm fine with schools profiting off of a few star athletes. More people profit from that system.

 

Coaches, AD's, and the NCAA gets to make huge profits while the people that are actually playing the games are legally forbidden from getting free tattoos or selling trophies. If what's special about college sports is that the big-name athletes are fake-students who don't get paid for all of the revenue that they're generating, then I'll pass.

[witesoxfan]

Yes, but there's zero doubt that the college players who have more experience can contribute meaningful bench minutes regardless, and aren't complete wastes crushing the on-court game. Everyone here has been talking about how great the game is now compared to the era that was crushed by players jumping straight to the pros over in the NBA thread, now you all want to see that ruined because a guy got hurt in college while getting tons of national publicity and free room and board. It's not a travesty.

 

There is not zero doubt if we are talking about Adam Morrison.

[StrangeSox]

Successful college teams and interest in the NCAA allows scholarships to be given across all sports - women's/men's etc. Great point.

 

Yeah, that is a good point. Collegiate baseball survives, though.

Edited February 14, 2013 by StrangeSox

[Buehrle>Wood]

Wasn't there debate over who should go #1, Rose or Beasley?

The Bulls were always set on Rose.

 

 

 

But most everyone had Beasley one until it started to leak out that the Bulls were going to take Rose.

[Jake]

First of all, the NBA and NFL can do whatever the hell they want. Likewise, the NBA has clearly benefited from this. Almost every player that comes in plays in the same league before they do. Playing college isn't as fun for the player as playing in the NBA, but it certainly benefits the best players when they get to keep proving that they are the best and you don't get stuck behind guys that seemed great in HIGH SCHOOL but turned out to be just that, great high school players.

 

If these people are obsessed with getting the most dollars and getting it right away, someone has already mentioned Europe. If you're so f***ing great that the NBA has wronged you by not letting you be drafted before you prove yourself against better competition, go get paid in Europe and everything should work out.

 

You said you could live with your parents till you're 19 if you want -- indeed, I'm curious how much that would help your draft stock. The NBA and NFL are requiring every applicant to demonstrate that they can compete at a higher level than high school ball (by actually doing it, not by being a great athlete), be durable, and prove that you can spend 1-3 years away from your parents without getting your ass arrested or otherwise in trouble.

[StrangeSox]

Yes, but there's zero doubt that the college players who have more experience can contribute meaningful bench minutes regardless, and aren't complete wastes crushing the on-court game. Everyone here has been talking about how great the game is now compared to the era that was crushed by players jumping straight to the pros over in the NBA thread, now you all want to see that ruined because a guy got hurt in college while getting tons of national publicity and free room and board. It's not a travesty.

 

It was crushed by s***ty gm's drafting bad players and maybe by an overall lack of talent.

[Soxbadger]

Successful college teams and interest in the NCAA allows scholarships to be given across all sports - women's/men's etc. Great point.

 

BUT OH NO NERLENS NOEL WILL ONLY GO 5TH IN THE DRAFT INSTEAD OF 1ST OH NOOOO WHAT WILL HE DO WITH HIS LIFE?!

 

What if he doesnt get drafted in the first round?

 

What if his knee gets infected and his leg is amputated?

 

Its really easy to say "Oh who cares" and give the BEST CASE SCENARIO.

 

There was a pretty famous Wisconsin player named Lee Evans who came back to school for another year. He had a devastating knee injury. It hurt his draft stock. He ended up still playing in the NFL and things worked out. But I will never forget the moment when I thought that this poor guy had given up generational wealth over a stupid college game.

 

And I love college sports, its just not worth it for some of them.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

What if he doesnt get drafted in the first round?

 

What if his knee gets infected and his leg is amputated?

 

Its really easy to say "Oh who cares" and give the BEST CASE SCENARIO.

 

There was a pretty famous Wisconsin player named Lee Evans who came back to school for another year. He had a devastating knee injury. It hurt his draft stock. He ended up still playing in the NFL and things worked out. But I will never forget the moment when I thought that this poor guy had given up generational wealth over a stupid college game.

 

And I love college sports, its just not worth it for some of them.

 

You mean Lee Evans that was still drafted 12th overall being nothing but a deep threat receiver?

 

Yeah I remember him. 1 good year. He was a bust.

 

OH and he is the entire reason the Ravens didn't make it to 2 straight Superbowls

Edited February 14, 2013 by witesoxfan

[Jake]

Successful college teams and interest in the NCAA allows scholarships to be given across all sports - women's/men's etc. Great point.

 

BUT OH NO NERLENS NOEL WILL ONLY GO 5TH IN THE DRAFT INSTEAD OF 1ST OH NOOOO WHAT WILL HE DO WITH HIS LIFE?!

 

Yeah, football and basketball pay for basically every other program and I am perfectly okay with that. Many schools have baseball on the chopping block now despite all that, and that's a sport that you CAN profit from if you become a perennial top 25 kind of program.

[Jenksismyhero]

Recruiting. "Hey, Cam Newton, we'll pay you $x a year to play at Ohio!" "We'll pay you $2x to play at Alabama!"

 

 

 

Coaches, AD's, and the NCAA gets to make huge profits while the people that are actually playing the games are legally forbidden from getting free tattoos or selling trophies. If what's special about college sports is that the big-name athletes are fake-students who don't get paid for all of the revenue that they're generating, then I'll pass.

 

Again, so there's zero competitive balance, it's all about how much money a school has and how many boosters a school can sell on giving a big donation. College athletics would be immediately ruined.

 

 

And who cares how much they profit (btw, where does that NCAA profit go? You think it just goes to the 10 white board members or something? It pays for a hell of lot of non-revenue generating sports and programs in college athletics). Those people make profits so that 10,000 other students at a school can get scholarships. Money generated by sports programs pay for other sports programs and indirectly benefits the academic side of the school as well.

 

And sorry, I don't feel bad for Terrell Pryor, a 20 year old kid that had his knob polished on a daily basis from 1000 different people from the time he was 15 years old, who was given just about anything and everything he ever wanted as a student, but couldn't get a f'n tattoo. Oh god, the horror. We're denying him the right to get a free tattoo during a small 4 year period of his rich and famous life.

[Soxbadger]

Jake,

 

We can always say "Anyone can do whatever the hell they want".

 

The question is, whether or not it is fair, and whether as a society we believe that these laws are just.

 

I do not. Its not just in the NBA, I do not like barriers of entry in almost every single field. They are generally created to screw people. That is my personal opinion. I work in a filed that has these hilarious barriers. Just because you overcame them does not mean you are good or better than some other guy who didnt. I dont like blanket arbitrary rules.

 

Some people are fine with them. I just am not. So its not just the NBA/NFL, its a much broader social argument about how certain people/classes use barriers to keep other people down. It generally derives from disproportionate bargaining power or wealth. In this case you have both on the side of the NBA, which is why its pretty egregious.

[Soxbadger]

wite,

 

I said "he still ended up playing in the nfl and things worked out"

 

But at the moment Evans got injured, there were serious concerns about what would happen. Its just unnecessary risk. And I hate that.

[Steve9347]

I've made my point - I prefer a good NBA product, and so does the NBA and that's why they made this rule for their private league. All this did was save the Raptors from dealing with a defense only, 14mpg player blowing out his ACL. That's good for the NBA.