NBA/NFL age limits

[Jenksismyhero]

Pretty sure there wouldn't be much to be a fan of if there weren't actual players on the field. Why do the most successful teams with the best recruits generate more revenue than schools with s***ty teams?

 

That there exists some alternative to the NCAA doesn't justify the NCAA refusing to share any of the revenues with the actual athletes or even allowing those athletes to earn money from other sources.

 

Actually they don't. Lower level Big Ten teams make more money than more "successful" programs because of the fact that people are fans of the school/conference in which they play. Yes, obviously that's tied to the players, but guess what, Illinois has sucked for the last 60 years in football (with a token good year every 5-6 years) and yet people still buy Illinois merchandise. The school is still more important than the player.

[Jenksismyhero]

which would apply to no NBA team ever

 

No I know, just throwing out the law. So when I slap my hot secretary's ass in my 5 attorney (10 person) firm I can't get in trouble

Edited February 14, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[Soxbadger]

"Fantasy world" is the right term to use. The payout for making the Final Four is like 250k. Obviously there's TV money, gate receipts and merchandise sales, but I seriously doubt it's enough to sustain that kind of model, especially if you also have to continuously spend on upgrading your facilities and fill out the rest of the roster. The boosters are probably your best bet, but how many schools have enough people to willingly flush north of $10 million per season down the toilet? I also picked the low end of your number, $50 million is just absurd.

 

There's far more money in football based on bowl payouts and much bigger stadiums, but there are also far more roster spots and it's less obvious who the studs are when they're still in high school (for just two examples, Andrew Luck and Johnny Manziel were both 3-star recruits).

 

Zoom,

 

I was using hyperbole. I dont know how much money these teams have access to. But the NBA doesnt want players being paid in NCAA, for a variety of reasons.

 

[ZoomSlowik]

Zoom,

 

I was using hyperbole. I dont know how much money these teams have access to. But the NBA doesnt want players being paid in NCAA, for a variety of reasons.

 

I really don't think they care because a college is not going to be able to sustain a $70 million roster like the NBA can.

[Soxbadger]

No I know, just throwing out the law. So when I slap my hot secretary's ass in my 5 attorney (10 person) firm I can't get in trouble

 

Dude you should really consult an attorney about that because Im pretty sure sexual harassment is different than discrimination.

 

[Soxbadger]

I really don't think they care because a college is not going to be able to sustain a $70 million roster like the NBA can.

 

No but people with money generally are able to get better counsel who can negotiate better for them. I dont think its a big concern, I just think all things being considered the NBA would prefer that they are being sent poor kids who have very little ability to negotiate on their own.

[Jenksismyhero]

Dude you should really consult an attorney about that because Im pretty sure sexual harassment is different than discrimination.

 

 

You still bring that under Title VII though don't you? I thought SH was a type of sex discrimination?

[southsider2k5]

Major League Baseball has 40 rounds in their f***ing draft, and most teams have four full-time minor league teams to fill, plus short-season leagues. Then there's that big league team. That requires a lot of players.

 

They can afford to burn picks on players based on pure potential while they still have peach fuzz on the johnsons.

 

The NBA was f***ing brutal in the early 2000s because of all the s***bomb high schoolers being drafted.

 

MLB also has a much bigger roster, making the extra players necessary.

[southsider2k5]

He otherwise would have been making millions instead of wasting everyone's time taking classes for two semesters.

 

So go somewhere else and make millions. Instead he got a free college education. Poor guy.

[StrangeSox]

Actually they don't. Lower level Big Ten teams make more money than more "successful" programs because of the fact that people are fans of the school/conference in which they play. Yes, obviously that's tied to the players, but guess what, Illinois has sucked for the last 60 years in football (with a token good year every 5-6 years) and yet people still buy Illinois merchandise. The school is still more important than the player.

Teams don't exist without players. Yeah, league affiliation and pedigree matters, that's why the perpetually awful Browns bring in more revenue than any AFL team. But better conferences and better teams have more fans and more revenue. If the product on the field was terrible, people wouldn't watch nearly as much.

 

Illinois games were routinely pretty empty when I went there, and I can't imagine they sold near the amount of merchandise that, say, OSU does.

[StrangeSox]

So go somewhere else and make millions. Instead he got a free college education. Poor guy.

Nah, how about we cut the people generating all of that money in on the revenue stream? Why should the coaches and administration and everyone else involved who isn't an athlete get access to all of that money, but the people actually playing the games shouldn't?

Edited February 14, 2013 by StrangeSox

[southsider2k5]

Steve,

 

You are looking for a new job right?

 

Imagine if before you could get your new job, they told you that you had to take mind altering drugs for the next year, and while 90% of the time it did nothing and youll be fine, 10% of the time it made you useless and youll get no job.

 

Would you think thats fair?

 

Or would you just prefer to be paid today, instead of taking the 10% chance that you wont be employable next year?

 

I cant imagine youd prefer the no reward complete risk option.

 

Because lets be honest 1 year of college isnt even worth $1mil, let alone $10mil which is what he could have gotten for the life of just 1 contract.

 

 

[Texsox]

While I am generally on the side of drafting high school kids, I don't think being forced to go to a top tier college and getting free everything is such a terrible thing. There are plenty of other athletes and entertainers who face the same kind of lifestyle issues and responsibilities at an early age and do just fine.

 

And I do support some form of compenstation for ALL college athletes. But each one should receive the same whether they play soccer or football, track or basketball. I would hate to see a system that started sorting and shifting and paying different athletes different amounts.

[southsider2k5]

So why can't the NBA draft "grown men" (is a 19 year old college superstar a "grown man"? I know I was still immature as hell my sophomore year) without a hard rule against the occasional HS draftee?

They're not being paid to go to school, they're getting a full scholarship for a year and then, if they were good enough to be drafted right out of HS, they'll be gone. They're not there for the classes, and if they are injured to the point that their NBA career is gone, then they'll be losing their athletic scholarship as well. If they were actually being paid appropriately for the revenue they generate, that'd be different.

 

But a lot more mature than you were as a high school kid.

[StrangeSox]

But a lot more mature than you were as a high school kid.

 

I don't really know that I matured all that much during my freshman year, certainly not enough to matter if I was suddenly going to be handed $10M+ at 18 instead of 19.

 

I was 18 at the start of my sophomore year, too, so I would have been forced to play two years of college basketball.

[southsider2k5]

Wasn't there debate over who should go #1, Rose or Beasley?

 

Sort of, but only the guys looking for shock value really talked about Beasley.

[southsider2k5]

Steve,

 

Even private employers cant discriminate based on race/religion/sex.

 

http://www.eeoc.gov/employers/coverage_private.cfm

 

http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/qanda.html

 

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;

 

 

Considering the law is almost 50 years old, and no one has been able to take down the NBA or NFL with it, they have a reason to be able to set an age limit that stands up in a court of law.

[southsider2k5]

Nah, how about we cut the people generating all of that money in on the revenue stream? Why should the coaches and administration and everyone else involved who isn't an athlete get access to all of that money, but the people actually playing the games shouldn't?

 

Then go to the D league or Europe.

[southsider2k5]

I don't really know that I matured all that much during my freshman year, certainly not enough to matter if I was suddenly going to be handed $10M+ at 18 instead of 19.

 

I was 18 at the start of my sophomore year, too, so I would have been forced to play two years of college basketball.

 

No. One year past high school is the rule.

[StrangeSox]

Then go to the D league or Europe.

 

yeah that's still not an actual argument in favor of the NCAA rules

 

The NCAA runs a multi-billion dollar commercial operation where a majority of its labor is unpaid and is forbidden from having other income. Telling me that other leagues exist doesn't do anything to justify the NCAA's rules.

Edited February 14, 2013 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

No. One year past high school is the rule.

 

It's an AND, not an OR rule:

 

Current rules

 

The current eligibility rules were established under the NBA's 2005 collective bargaining agreement (CBA), which expired in 2011, resulting in a lockout. The new CBA, approved in December 2011, made no changes to the draft rules, but called for the NBA and its players union to form a committee to discuss draft-related issues.[8][9] The basic rules that started in the 2006 draft are:

 

All drafted players must be at least 19 years old during the calendar year of the draft.[10] To determine whether a player is eligible for a given year's draft, subtract 19 from the year of the draft. If the player was born during or before that year, he is eligible.

 

Any player who is not an "international player", as defined in the CBA, must be at least one year removed from the graduation of his high school class.[10]

 

The "one year out of high school" requirement is in addition to the age requirement. For example, although O. J. Mayo turned 19 in November 2006, six months before his high school graduation, he was not eligible until the 2008 draft, a year after his high school class graduated. Stern stated the rules were business-related and not a "social program", citing the need to see players perform against higher competition before they are evaluated for valuable draft picks.[9]

 

I guess I turned 19 during the calender year so I'd have been good, but someone who went to college early wouldn't have been. That'd be a rare situation, though.

[Soxbadger]

Considering the law is almost 50 years old, and no one has been able to take down the NBA or NFL with it, they have a reason to be able to set an age limit that stands up in a court of law.

 

Things change. At one point in the history of the US many of the players in the NBA would not have even had the right to vote.

 

Just because something is old, just because its been around, does not mean its right. Until Curt Flood baseball didnt have free agents.

 

Its tough, because no one wants to be the guy who fights their employer, there are a lot of consequences.

[StrangeSox]

Things change. At one point in the history of the US many of the players in the NBA would not have even had the right to vote.

 

Just because something is old, just because its been around, does not mean its right. Until Curt Flood baseball didnt have free agents.

 

Its tough, because no one wants to be the guy who fights their employer, there are a lot of consequences.

Free agents will ruin the purity of the sport!

 

Allowing professional athletes will ruin the Olympics!

[Soxbadger]

And the other part that is being lost, is that its more about having a legitimate justification. At least in the NFL they are saying its for the safety of the players, most of those guys are staying in college 3+ years. That is a legitimate time commitment.

 

That being said, I do think there should be at minimum some sort of insurance for college athletes in case of injury. That isnt just exclusive basketball or football.

[Kyyle23]

Maurice Clarett lost to the NFL trying to get in early, didnt he?