Sox trade RP Jeff Soptic for 3B Conor Gillaspie

[witesoxfan]

Any objective baseball fan would say that Sabean has the edge. Look at his credentials, his record. But it was not a rip. Just a comment.

 

"November 14, 2003: Traded by the Minnesota Twins with cash to the San Francisco Giants for Boof Bonser, Francisco Liriano and Joe Nathan.

December 16, 2004: Released by the San Francisco Giants."

 

Guess who made those moves?

 

For the longest time frame, Brian Sabean was considered a joke of a GM who was fortunate enough to have Barry Bonds in his lineup to take his mediocre teams into the 90+ win territory. It wasn't wrong, because that's exactly what was happening in San Francisco. Now, whether through luck, good scouting, good development, or a little of all 3, he's won 2 out of 3 World Series and most of that has had to do with absurdly good starting pitching, a lot of luck, and an incredibly good catcher. That's really it. They don't have a lot of offensive talent anywhere else on that roster, and this offseason, he guaranteed Angel Pagan (as in, the 31 year old Angel Pagan whose game relies primarily upon his speed, defense, and average) $40 million over the next 4 years.

 

I would say Brian Sabean is a mediocre GM - not good, not bad, but mediocre. The Giants have an incredible scouting department, and a great developmental team in the minor leagues, but Brian Sabean is not a good GM. If he has power over the scouting and development - great, he is a good evaluator of scouting and development talent. He is still not a good GM; he is a mediocre GM.

 

Rick Hahn has been the GM for less than 6 months. How about you let him get beyond 0-0 as a GM before you evaluate him?

 

[southsider2k5]

I don't think there is any doubt that he has left his team with some gaping holes, even with the streak of good pitchers that the Giants have produced.

[peteward]

If the Gila monster keeps hitting and can handle the hot corner defensively, this will prove to be Hahn's best move yet.

 

My only issue with what Rick H. has done is the decision to let AJ go.

This all came back to me yesterday when I saw AJ's interview after the Texas game. He seemed pretty sad about the whole situation and mentioned the Sox fans who he will always have a connection to. There is just a lot of mutual admiration.

 

I don't understand why the Sox would not sign AJ to a one year deal. I know, it was a lot of money and he is near the end of his career. But consider the numbers he put up last season.

And I am tired of hearing people knock AJ's defense while understating his offense. He handled the pitching staff well and improved a bit last season in terms of throwing out runners. AJ was one of the most clutch hitters

we have had. In late innings he would seldom strike out when we needed him to put the ball in play.

He was a Cub killer in the Crosstown Series.

Now can Flowers battle up there when we simply need him to put the bat on the ball?

Or is he simply an Adam Dunn from the Right side?

My opinion is that AJ would really have helped us this season.

 

Beyond the financial and other considerations that went into the decision, I hate when a team lets a player like AJ go, a guy who has created so much fan interest and allegiance over a long period of time. It makes it seem like the team lacks loyalty to its players, after expecting and receiving the same loyalty from them for so many years. And to some, it just makes them look cheap.

Edited February 27, 2013 by southside_hitman

[witesoxfan]

If Tyler Flowers is Adam Dunn from the right side of the plate and he continues to play great defense, he's going to be one of the best catchers in the league.

[southsider2k5]

If the Gila monster keeps hitting and can handle the hot corner defensively, this will prove to be Hahn's best move yet.

 

My only issue with what Rick H. has done is the decision to let AJ go.

This all came back to me yesterday when I saw AJ's interview after the Texas game. He seemed pretty sad about the whole situation and mentioned the Sox fans who he will always have a connection to. There is just a lot of mutual admiration.

 

I don't understand why the Sox would not sign AJ to a one year deal. I know, it was a lot of money and he is near the end of his career. But consider the numbers he put up last season.

And I am tired of hearing people knock AJ's defense while understating his offense. He handled the pitching staff well and improved a bit last season in terms of throwing out runners. AJ was one of the most clutch hitters

we have had. In late innings he would seldom strike out when we needed him to put the ball in play.

He was a Cub killer in the Crosstown Series.

Now can Flowers battle up there when we simply need him to put the bat on the ball?

Or is he simply an Adam Dunn from the Right side?

My opinion is that AJ would really have helped us this season.

 

Beyond the financial and other considerations that went into the decision, I hate when a team lets a player like AJ go, a guy who has created so much fan interest and allegiance over a long period of time. It makes it seem like the team lacks loyalty to its players, after expecting and receiving the same loyalty from them for so many years. And to some, it just makes them look cheap.

It is very possible that the Sox have a better catcher on their roster at 1/10th the cost. It also allowed them to bring back Jake Peavy, which was much more important to this team.

 

[hogan873]

If the Gila monster keeps hitting and can handle the hot corner defensively, this will prove to be Hahn's best move yet.

 

My only issue with what Rick H. has done is the decision to let AJ go.

This all came back to me yesterday when I saw AJ's interview after the Texas game. He seemed pretty sad about the whole situation and mentioned the Sox fans who he will always have a connection to. There is just a lot of mutual admiration.

 

I don't understand why the Sox would not sign AJ to a one year deal. I know, it was a lot of money and he is near the end of his career. But consider the numbers he put up last season.

And I am tired of hearing people knock AJ's defense while understating his offense. He handled the pitching staff well and improved a bit last season in terms of throwing out runners. AJ was one of the most clutch hitters

we have had. In late innings he would seldom strike out when we needed him to put the ball in play.

He was a Cub killer in the Crosstown Series.

Now can Flowers battle up there when we simply need him to put the bat on the ball?

Or is he simply an Adam Dunn from the Right side?

My opinion is that AJ would really have helped us this season.

 

Beyond the financial and other considerations that went into the decision, I hate when a team lets a player like AJ go, a guy who has created so much fan interest and allegiance over a long period of time. It makes it seem like the team lacks loyalty to its players, after expecting and receiving the same loyalty from them for so many years. And to some, it just makes them look cheap.

You cannot look at AJ's performance last year as anything but an outlier. True, it would have been nice to have AJ back, but not for $7 million or so. And him being a Cub killer, that's great, but that doesn't matter for 158 games this year.

 

I like that Flowers is going to get the opportunity to a starter. If he can hit .250ish while belting 30+ HRs, along with his defense he will be one of the better catchers in the league.

[Dick Allen]

If the Gila monster keeps hitting and can handle the hot corner defensively, this will prove to be Hahn's best move yet.

 

My only issue with what Rick H. has done is the decision to let AJ go.

This all came back to me yesterday when I saw AJ's interview after the Texas game. He seemed pretty sad about the whole situation and mentioned the Sox fans who he will always have a connection to. There is just a lot of mutual admiration.

 

I don't understand why the Sox would not sign AJ to a one year deal. I know, it was a lot of money and he is near the end of his career. But consider the numbers he put up last season.

And I am tired of hearing people knock AJ's defense while understating his offense. He handled the pitching staff well and improved a bit last season in terms of throwing out runners. AJ was one of the most clutch hitters

we have had. In late innings he would seldom strike out when we needed him to put the ball in play.

He was a Cub killer in the Crosstown Series.

Now can Flowers battle up there when we simply need him to put the bat on the ball?

Or is he simply an Adam Dunn from the Right side?

My opinion is that AJ would really have helped us this season.

 

Beyond the financial and other considerations that went into the decision, I hate when a team lets a player like AJ go, a guy who has created so much fan interest and allegiance over a long period of time. It makes it seem like the team lacks loyalty to its players, after expecting and receiving the same loyalty from them for so many years. And to some, it just makes them look cheap.

I wish he brought AJ back as well. I think they could have brought Peavy back and assumed the financial hit for one season, but we will see what happens. If AJ hits 30 homers and has a huge year and Flowers struggles, Hahn is going to get skewered by a lot of people. If AJ hits like a 37 year old catcher with a lot of mileage and Flowers has a good year, he will be lauded.

[cabiness42]

I wish he brought AJ back as well. I think they could have brought Peavy back and assumed the financial hit for one season, but we will see what happens. If AJ hits 30 homers and has a huge year and Flowers struggles, Hahn is going to get skewered by a lot of people. If AJ hits like a 37 year old catcher with a lot of mileage and Flowers has a good year, he will be lauded.

 

I would bet on the latter.

 

[Dick Allen]

I would bet on the latter.

I understand the reasoning, I just think AJ has altered his approach and should hit for more power from here on out. If Flowers struggles and the Sox are short a LH bat, and AJ puts up good numbers, even some praising the move now will call him an idiot.

 

The thing is, if the choice was AJ or Peavy, Hahn took the bigger gamble. Peavy was more than $20 million more expensive.

[hogan873]

I understand the reasoning, I just think AJ has altered his approach and should hit for more power from here on out. If Flowers struggles and the Sox are short a LH bat, and AJ puts up good numbers, even some praising the move now will call him an idiot.

 

The thing is, if the choice was AJ or Peavy, Hahn took the bigger gamble. Peavy was more than $20 million more expensive.

Monetary value alone. There's a risk with both; AJ with his age and possible (probable) regression, and Peavy with his health. I think the Peavy move made more sense, and if he pitches like he did last year (which seems reasonable), he's more than worth the money.

[Balta1701]

Monetary value alone. There's a risk with both; AJ with his age and possible (probable) regression, and Peavy with his health. I think the Peavy move made more sense, and if he pitches like he did last year (which seems reasonable), he's more than worth the money.

Of course, it's also possible that they were able to partially insure Peavy's deal again, that would make the risk on his deal even less if that were the case.

[Jake]

I don't think money had much, if anything, to do with whether they brought AJ back. Eventually, you need good players under you control for the foreseeable future. AJ is old -- you'd be happy if he was still serviceable in 3 years. Flowers, due to age alone, could last you up to 10 years from today (the age we'd be super happy to see AJ still playing). You need that to develop a franchise...young guys, regardless of cost, that will be on your team for a long time. You can only buy back so many mid-30's year old players before the rug comes out from under you.

[southsider2k5]

I wish he brought AJ back as well. I think they could have brought Peavy back and assumed the financial hit for one season, but we will see what happens. If AJ hits 30 homers and has a huge year and Flowers struggles, Hahn is going to get skewered by a lot of people. If AJ hits like a 37 year old catcher with a lot of mileage and Flowers has a good year, he will be lauded.

 

Aj isn't going to have a year like last year again. That was an absolute freak year for him.

[southsider2k5]

I don't think money had much, if anything, to do with whether they brought AJ back. Eventually, you need good players under you control for the foreseeable future. AJ is old -- you'd be happy if he was still serviceable in 3 years. Flowers, due to age alone, could last you up to 10 years from today (the age we'd be super happy to see AJ still playing). You need that to develop a franchise...young guys, regardless of cost, that will be on your team for a long time. You can only buy back so many mid-30's year old players before the rug comes out from under you.

 

Don't forget, there could also be clubhouse issues there as to why it was time for AJ to move along.

[peteward]

Aj isn't going to have a year like last year again. That was an absolute freak year for him.

 

He had a fine year but he also might be getting better with age.

AJ hit 17 home runs in '05 so hitting 9 more last season is not exactly like a PED power explosion.

His batting average last season was .278. He hit .300 or above three times in his career, hit fpor a better average in 2011,

and is a lifetime .284 hitter.

 

There are a lot of people and primarily Cub fans that dislike AJ, but that is all the more reason for Sox fans to admire his

competitiveness and desire to defeat opponents.

I would have let Peavy go, signed AJ and traded Flowers.

Flowers is a lumbering ox, a big guy that is prone to weight gain and may not prove to be durable over the course of

an entire season behind the plate. Just to compare body types, Fisk was also tall, but he was light and like a cat behind the plate.

And Phegley seems to be left out in these conversations, but he may prove to be better than Flowers over the long haul.

Flowers talks a big game so it is time for him to show us what he can do. I have heard some sportscasters suggest that his defense alone justifies starting him. A .225 batting average with 150+ K's coupled with slightly better than average defense is not going to cut it. And he is a load on the base path.

 

 

 

 

[Quin]

He had a fine year but he also might be getting better with age.

AJ hit 17 home runs in '05 so hitting 9 more last season is not exactly like a PED power explosion.

His batting average last season was .278. He hit .300 or above three times in his career, hit fpor a better average in 2011,

and is a lifetime .284 hitter.

 

There are a lot of people and primarily Cub fans that dislike AJ, but that is all the more reason for Sox fans to admire his

competitiveness and desire to defeat opponents.

I would have let Peavy go, signed AJ and traded Flowers.

Flowers is a lumbering ox, a big guy that is prone to weight gain and may not prove to be durable over the course of

an entire season behind the plate. Just to compare body types, Fisk was also tall, but he was light and like a cat behind the plate.

And Phegley seems to be left out in these conversations, but he may prove to be better than Flowers over the long haul.

Flowers talks a big game so it is time for him to show us what he can do. I have heard some sportscasters suggest that his defense alone justifies starting him. A .225 batting average with 150+ K's coupled with slightly better than average defense is not going to cut it. And he is a load on the base path.

 

So...he hit 17 homers 8 years ago? Seriously? That's your example?

 

And AJ's days of being agile are long, long gone.

 

[hogan873]

He had a fine year but he also might be getting better with age.

AJ hit 17 home runs in '05 so hitting 9 more last season is not exactly like a PED power explosion.

His batting average last season was .278. He hit .300 or above three times in his career, hit fpor a better average in 2011,

and is a lifetime .284 hitter.

 

There are a lot of people and primarily Cub fans that dislike AJ, but that is all the more reason for Sox fans to admire his

competitiveness and desire to defeat opponents.

I would have let Peavy go, signed AJ and traded Flowers.

Flowers is a lumbering ox, a big guy that is prone to weight gain and may not prove to be durable over the course of

an entire season behind the plate. Just to compare body types, Fisk was also tall, but he was light and like a cat behind the plate.

And Phegley seems to be left out in these conversations, but he may prove to be better than Flowers over the long haul.

Flowers talks a big game so it is time for him to show us what he can do. I have heard some sportscasters suggest that his defense alone justifies starting him. A .225 batting average with 150+ K's coupled with slightly better than average defense is not going to cut it. And he is a load on the base path.

AJ hit 18 HRs in 2005. Then in the next 6 years he hit 16, 14, 13, 13, 9, and 8. If anything, he was trending downwards in power. 2012 was a freak year for AJ in the power department. He may have altered his approach, but I would be surprised to see him hit more than 16 or 18 HRs this year.

 

As far as Flowers, he's not as much of a base clogger as you suggest. Plus, he's young and has potential. Who knows how much longer AJ has in the majors as a catcher. The Sox made the right choice by not signing AJ to a multi-year contract worth $7 million per year.

[Chicago White Sox]

He had a fine year but he also might be getting better with age.

AJ hit 17 home runs in '05 so hitting 9 more last season is not exactly like a PED power explosion.

His batting average last season was .278. He hit .300 or above three times in his career, hit fpor a better average in 2011,

and is a lifetime .284 hitter.

 

There are a lot of people and primarily Cub fans that dislike AJ, but that is all the more reason for Sox fans to admire his

competitiveness and desire to defeat opponents.

I would have let Peavy go, signed AJ and traded Flowers.

Flowers is a lumbering ox, a big guy that is prone to weight gain and may not prove to be durable over the course of

an entire season behind the plate. Just to compare body types, Fisk was also tall, but he was light and like a cat behind the plate.

And Phegley seems to be left out in these conversations, but he may prove to be better than Flowers over the long haul.

Flowers talks a big game so it is time for him to show us what he can do. I have heard some sportscasters suggest that his defense alone justifies starting him. A .225 batting average with 150+ K's coupled with slightly better than average defense is not going to cut it. And he is a load on the base path.

There is so much wrong with this post, but I'll just pick the line that bothers me the most.

 

You'd really pick AJ over Peavy? A 36/37 year old catcher coming off an outlier of a season over a possible top of the rotation starter? Without Peavy or a viable replacement we're not competing for s***, and I have no idea where you think Peavy's replacement would come from.

 

Loyalty is a great quality and should be rewarded, but only with some level of reason. When you start using stats from seven years prior as support AJ's power surge last wasn't an outlier, you've demonstrated you've lost the ability to reason with this particular player.

[peteward]

AJ hit 18 HRs in 2005. Then in the next 6 years he hit 16, 14, 13, 13, 9, and 8. If anything, he was trending downwards in power. 2012 was a freak year for AJ in the power department. He may have altered his approach, but I would be surprised to see him hit more than 16 or 18 HRs this year.

As far as Flowers, he's not as much of a base clogger as you suggest.

 

Want to talk trends? In four seasons Flowers has had 410 major league at bats, roughly one full season worth of at-bats

for a starting catcher.

In 410 major league at-bats Flowers has hit .205 with 160 strike-outs.

 

Regarding AJ, nobody suggested that the reason to keep him was because of his "freak" home run number last season.

He is a .284 lifetime hitter - a consistent force in the line-up against RH pitchers.

And any Sox fan who has watched a lot of games over his career knows that AJ has been one of our most clutch hitters.

That is not a statistic but it is was an important asset that we have now lost.

By contrast, Flowers is an easy out when facing a strong reliever in clutch situations.

He will be buried in the lower part of the order and might lead the team in hitting into double plays.

And he isn't a load on the bases? OK, well that is your opinion, but in a head to head race, my money is on Monte TeO.

 

I hope that Hector G and Phegley have a great Spring because I do not believe that Flowers is going to cut it.

If he is on pace for his major league .205 average and 160 strike outs , that will not be enough for him to hold down a spot on the 25 man roster.

Edited February 28, 2013 by southside_hitman

[cabiness42]

Yeah, I heard that every hitter in the history of major league baseball continues his numbers from his first 400 at bats throughout his entire career. None of them ever improve.

[southsider2k5]

He had a fine year but he also might be getting better with age.

AJ hit 17 home runs in '05 so hitting 9 more last season is not exactly like a PED power explosion.

His batting average last season was .278. He hit .300 or above three times in his career, hit fpor a better average in 2011,

and is a lifetime .284 hitter.

 

There are a lot of people and primarily Cub fans that dislike AJ, but that is all the more reason for Sox fans to admire his

competitiveness and desire to defeat opponents.

I would have let Peavy go, signed AJ and traded Flowers.

Flowers is a lumbering ox, a big guy that is prone to weight gain and may not prove to be durable over the course of

an entire season behind the plate. Just to compare body types, Fisk was also tall, but he was light and like a cat behind the plate.

And Phegley seems to be left out in these conversations, but he may prove to be better than Flowers over the long haul.

Flowers talks a big game so it is time for him to show us what he can do. I have heard some sportscasters suggest that his defense alone justifies starting him. A .225 batting average with 150+ K's coupled with slightly better than average defense is not going to cut it. And he is a load on the base path.

 

The difference between homer totals in the teens and in the high twenties is HUGE.

[southsider2k5]

AJ hit 18 HRs in 2005. Then in the next 6 years he hit 16, 14, 13, 13, 9, and 8. If anything, he was trending downwards in power. 2012 was a freak year for AJ in the power department. He may have altered his approach, but I would be surprised to see him hit more than 16 or 18 HRs this year.

 

As far as Flowers, he's not as much of a base clogger as you suggest. Plus, he's young and has potential. Who knows how much longer AJ has in the majors as a catcher. The Sox made the right choice by not signing AJ to a multi-year contract worth $7 million per year.

 

AJ is one of the slowest guys in all of baseball. He isn't more of a base clogger than AJ.

[peteward]

Yeah, I heard that every hitter in the history of major league baseball continues his numbers from his first 400 at bats throughout his entire career. None of them ever improve.

 

He has had four years to show that he can hit, and he hasn't.

What is the basis for thinking that this year will be any different? Perhaps a new Manto leg kick or

some other secret weapon we don't know about?

You don't have to look through the history of baseball to see trends.

AJ hit .300 or above 4 times in his first 6 years. You don't see too many players that even remain in the major leagues after hitting .205 after four years.

 

 

[peteward]

AJ is one of the slowest guys in all of baseball. He isn't more of a base clogger than AJ.

 

Except you are wrong. AJ was one of our best base runners, not the fastest, but one of the best.

[southsider2k5]

Except you are wrong. AJ was one of our best base runners, not the fastest, but one of the best.

 

The baserunning ability is fine. He doesn't have the speed for it to matter.