Sox trade RP Jeff Soptic for 3B Conor Gillaspie

[southsider2k5]

He has had four years to show that he can hit, and he hasn't.

What is the basis for thinking that this year will be any different? Perhaps a new Manto leg kick or

some other secret weapon we don't know about?

You don't have to look through the history of baseball to see trends.

AJ hit .300 or above 4 times in his first 6 years. You don't see too many players that even remain in the major leagues after hitting .205 after four years.

 

He hasn't had any real time. Being a rarely used back up player isn't a real chance to play.

[Kyyle23]

He has had four years to show that he can hit, and he hasn't.

What is the basis for thinking that this year will be any different? Perhaps a new Manto leg kick or

some other secret weapon we don't know about?

You don't have to look through the history of baseball to see trends.

AJ hit .300 or above 4 times in his first 6 years. You don't see too many players that even remain in the major leagues after hitting .205 after four years.

 

Those four years you are considering a trend are, in your own words, roughly one year of at bats.

 

That is not a trend, that is sparse chances to hit.

[LittleHurt05]

He has had four years to show that he can hit, and he hasn't.

What is the basis for thinking that this year will be any different? Perhaps a new Manto leg kick or

some other secret weapon we don't know about?

You don't have to look through the history of baseball to see trends.

AJ hit .300 or above 4 times in his first 6 years. You don't see too many players that even remain in the major leagues after hitting .205 after four years.

 

Four years? He has 273 career MLB at-bats, that's barely a half season's worth.

[hogan873]

Want to talk trends? In four seasons Flowers has had 410 major league at bats, roughly one full season worth of at-bats

for a starting catcher.

In 410 major league at-bats Flowers has hit .205 with 160 strike-outs.

Yes, trends. Flowers has no trend yet as he has not had a chance to play consistently at the major league level. His random at bats over the past few years sin't enough evidence to show that he's a .205 hitter. I highly doubt Flowers will hit only .205. I think with consistent play he can be a .250 hitter with good power (25+ HRs). Plus his defense, I'll take that AND the ability to re-sign Peavy.

[witesoxfan]

Let's recap:

 

-AJ's season wasn't an outlier because he hit 17 one time (8 years ago)

-We should have brought him back because Cubs fans hate him (all baseball fans hate him)

-Tyler Flowers is prone to weight gain because he is tall and big bodied, therefore he will suck (don't you guys remember Frank Thomas?! HE SUCKED BECAUSE HE GAINED WEIGHT!)

-Josh Phegley needs to be considered an option with his career minor league OPS of .685 (DYN-O-MITE!)

-We get to make up arbitrary numbers to defend ourselves (Flowers has 317 PAs and 107 K's; also 12 HR and 33 BB)

-AJ is a clutch hitter (though no numbers are provided to back it up)

-Tyler Flowers will never succeed in clutch situations because he is a girly man (nevermind that he hit a game winning homer last year)

-Tyler Flowers is a GIDP machine (I'd prefer he be a love machine)

-Hector Gimenez and Josh Phegley will destroy Flowers the Girly Man™ in Spring Training

-We can now count stints of 20 PA and 15 PA as full seasons (Flowers the Girly Man™ is a 4 year vet now! PAY HIM)

-Don't have to look through baseball history to see trends (though you can if you'd like)

-AJ hit .300 15 years ago in 13 ABs, so he must be a .300 hitter (but he will never hit a home run)

 

---------

 

I just facepalmed so hard I sniffed someone's butt in China

Edited February 28, 2013 by witesoxfan

[NorthSideSox72]

Let's recap:

 

-AJ's season wasn't an outlier because he hit 17 one time (8 years ago)

-We should have brought him back because Cubs fans hate him (all baseball fans hate him)

-Tyler Flowers is prone to weight gain because he is tall and big bodied, therefore he will suck (don't you guys remember Frank Thomas?! HE SUCKED BECAUSE HE GAINED WEIGHT!)

-Josh Phegley needs to be considered an option with his career minor league OPS of .685 (DYN-O-MITE!)

-We get to make up arbitrary numbers to defend ourselves (Flowers has 317 PAs and 107 K's; also 12 HR and 33 BB)

-AJ is a clutch hitter (though no numbers are provided to back it up)

-Tyler Flowers will never succeed in clutch situations because he is a girly man (nevermind that he hit a game winning homer last year)

-Tyler Flowers is a GIDP machine (I'd prefer he be a love machine)

-Hector Gimenez and Josh Phegley will destroy Flowers the Girly Man™ in Spring Training

-We can now count stints of 20 PA and 15 PA as full seasons (Flowers the Girly Man™ is a 4 year vet now! PAY HIM)

-Don't have to look through baseball history to see trends (though you can if you'd like)

-AJ hit .300 15 years ago in 13 ABs, so he must be a .300 hitter (but he will never hit a home run)

 

---------

 

I just facepalmed so hard I sniffed someone's butt in China

 

Bazooka.

 

[cabiness42]

-Tyler Flowers is a GIDP machine (I'd prefer he be a love machine)

 

If he was any good he could do both at the same time.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

If he was any good he could do both at the same time.

Tyler Flowers grinds out double plays every night after the game.

 

There's a whole mountain of possibilities for this theme.

 

[Kyyle23]

If he was any good he could do both at the same time.

 

I think Tyler Flowers just became Berzerker from Clerks

[southsider2k5]

If he was any good he could do both at the same time.

 

Jumping on Flowers for GDIP is pretty funny considering AJ's DP numbers annually. Last year was his first year under 10 since 2001. It was his first year under 13 since 2006. This is also the guy who led all of baseball in GDIP with 27 in 2004.

[Princess Dye]

Tyler Flowers! Give me your career 700 OPS with some defense, your minor league penchant for making pitchers throw a bunch of pitches.... and I'll prefer you to a 36 year old making a ton of dough. That is all.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Jose Paniagua

[Buehrle>Wood]

I welcome him to prove me wrong, but Flowers is a terrible baseball player and there was even speculation he would be cut from the team midseason last year. That's right, he couldn't cut it as a backup at the time, but here we are few months later with him as the starter.

[Kyyle23]

I welcome him to prove me wrong, but Flowers is a terrible baseball player and there was even speculation he would be cut from the team midseason last year. That's right, he couldn't cut it as a backup at the time, but here we are few months later with him as the starter.

 

I certainly dont remember this at all

[fathom]

I worry that Flowers is going to be a huge liability against the tough right handed pitchers in the division.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I certainly dont remember this at all

I remember because I was part of the discussion. People wanted him gone. Luckily we have archives. The game vs. Toronto right before the asb was rock bottom. Good place to see just how much the opinion on Flowers has apparently changed a lot in short time.

[Harry Chappas]

I remember because I was part of the discussion. People wanted him gone. Luckily we have archives. The game vs. Toronto right before the asb was rock bottom. Good place to see just how much the opinion on Flowers has apparently changed a lot in short time.

 

That is a lot different than speculation that he would be cut.

[Kyyle23]

I remember because I was part of the discussion. People wanted him gone. Luckily we have archives. The game vs. Toronto right before the asb was rock bottom. Good place to see just how much the opinion on Flowers has apparently changed a lot in short time.

 

you and a messageboard complaining about his performance is a hell of a lot different than speculation that he was gonna be cut

[ScottyDo]

Yeah, BleacherReport links or it didn't happen!

[hogan873]

you and a messageboard complaining about his performance is a hell of a lot different than speculation that he was gonna be cut

Using this logic, just about everyone was "close to being cut" last year.

[Kyyle23]

Using this logic, just about everyone was "close to being cut" last year.

 

Not Pauly.

 

 

NEVER FORGET!

[witesoxfan]

I remember because I was part of the discussion. People wanted him gone. Luckily we have archives. The game vs. Toronto right before the asb was rock bottom. Good place to see just how much the opinion on Flowers has apparently changed a lot in short time.

 

And then he put up an .840 OPS when given additional playing time in the second half.

[ScottyDo]

Using this logic, just about everyone was "close to being cut" last year.

I kind of like the framework of the plan, though. I am going to plant seeds of speculation now so that later I can say, "there was speculation".

 

I feel like midway through this season, they might fire Ventura and hire Oney Guillen as his successor. Can I get a second?

[Dick Allen]

Using this logic, just about everyone was "close to being cut" last year.

The White Sox would have about a $300 million payroll with only a couple of guys who were on the active roster making above minimum if all the DFA and release posts on this board ever came true.

[RockRaines]

He had a fine year but he also might be getting better with age.

AJ hit 17 home runs in '05 so hitting 9 more last season is not exactly like a PED power explosion.

His batting average last season was .278. He hit .300 or above three times in his career, hit fpor a better average in 2011,

and is a lifetime .284 hitter.

 

There are a lot of people and primarily Cub fans that dislike AJ, but that is all the more reason for Sox fans to admire his

competitiveness and desire to defeat opponents.

I would have let Peavy go, signed AJ and traded Flowers.

Flowers is a lumbering ox, a big guy that is prone to weight gain and may not prove to be durable over the course of

an entire season behind the plate. Just to compare body types, Fisk was also tall, but he was light and like a cat behind the plate.

And Phegley seems to be left out in these conversations, but he may prove to be better than Flowers over the long haul.

Flowers talks a big game so it is time for him to show us what he can do. I have heard some sportscasters suggest that his defense alone justifies starting him. A .225 batting average with 150+ K's coupled with slightly better than average defense is not going to cut it. And he is a load on the base path.

Aj had a chance to come back to the Sox at an affordable price. He chose to go to Texas.

[Buehrle>Wood]

you and a messageboard complaining about his performance is a hell of a lot different than speculation that he was gonna be cut

I meant to state here on this message board. Never said it had any merit. Just find it funny how the opinion on him has changed so quickly. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

 

And yes, wite, he did well down the stretch to change that opinion, but I think the catcher position has to be far and away the biggest concern going into the season.