Sox trade RP Jeff Soptic for 3B Conor Gillaspie

[TaylorStSox]

Here's the thing...I took a second to actually put those numbers together. If he hits ~.210 with 20 HR's, I gave him about 25 2b (usually his 2b are close to his HR numbers) and ~55 BB in 550 PA's (could be a little low for him), those bad numbers still put him with a .674 OPS.

 

That's not great and yes it's a downgrade from AJ last year, but it's not terrifically bad either. 1/2 the teams in the league got a sub-.700 OPS from their catcher's spot. 8 teams got worse production last year than we'd hope would be worse case scenario for Flowers.

I hate to use "butthurt," but we know what this whining is really all about. I hope some of these guys have MLBTV so they can catch a bunch of Rangers games.

[Cali]

I don't want to generalize, (but I'm going to haha) cause I don't know how old everyone is, but it seems like a lot of older fans have a hard time letting veteran players go. One's that have either declined in play, priced themselves out, or are just too damn old to be viable options anymore, some older fans want on the team until they turn into dust on the field.

 

(And not just White Sox fans too, I know some Boston fans who still think Varitek should be playing)

 

No matter what kind of season Paulie has this year, I'm completely fine letting him go at the end of the season. Just like with AJ, I think some team will offer him more money than the Sox are willing to offer and everyone is going to freak out, but you gotta be smart. The front office values loyalty, but their not dumb either, they know what makes financial sense, and I tend to agree with them.

[Balta1701]

I don't want to generalize, (but I'm going to haha) cause I don't know how old everyone is, but it seems like a lot of older fans have a hard time letting veteran players go. One's that have either declined in play, priced themselves out, or are just too damn old to be viable options anymore, some older fans want on the team until they turn into dust on the field.

 

(And not just White Sox fans too, I know some Boston fans who still think Varitek should be playing)

 

No matter what kind of season Paulie has this year, I'm completely fine letting him go at the end of the season. Just like with AJ, I think some team will offer him more money than the Sox are willing to offer and everyone is going to freak out, but you gotta be smart. The front office values loyalty, but their not dumb either, they know what makes financial sense, and I tend to agree with them.

Problem with letting PK14 walk at the end of the year would be...not sure who plays 1b next year. Maybe Mitchell and Thompson play well enough at AAA that they earn callups, and Viciedo hits well enough that they put him back there, but Dunn is not going to be this team's everyday 1b next year.

 

And anyway, AJ can have more than just 1 standing O from the audience.

[Cali]

Problem with letting PK14 walk at the end of the year would be...not sure who plays 1b next year. Maybe Mitchell and Thompson play well enough at AAA that they earn callups, and Viciedo hits well enough that they put him back there, but Dunn is not going to be this team's everyday 1b next year.

 

And anyway, AJ can have more than just 1 standing O from the audience.

 

Yeah, I imagine if Paulie walks, you sign a stop gap, or move Keppinger to first. Barnum is still a few years away. Maybe Wilkins can come back from the dead...

[Balta1701]

Yeah, I imagine if Paulie walks, you sign a stop gap, or move Keppinger to first. Barnum is still a few years away. Maybe Wilkins can come back from the dead...

If the Sox are signing a stop-gap, it ought to be Konerko unless he decides to retire or has a terrible year this year. He's in his late 30's, ought to be on 1 year contracts...and we're kinda familiar with him. Since he's a righty he's also a good counterpoint with Dunn to share the 1b/DH spots.

[Kyyle23]

I never stated that his four season define him and you misquoted me.

I corrected the total at bats he has had over four seasons by 150 but you continue to bring it up as though it makes a difference. It doesn't. I explained that the statistic was misread by me since that number is right under his total at bats at baseball reference.com. But again, it doesn't matter. Flower's batting average still averages out to .205. If you extrapolate his strikeouts over a full season, he would have about 160 Ks and that concerns me. Additionally, I have watched Flowers over the past several years as we all have so my opinions as well as others have been formed over time, not just by a quick review of his poor offensive stats.

 

I have heard all sorts of excuses for his low batting average and those are just fine, but they do not remove the concerns that many Sox fans have. And those concerns are not just based upon poor offense but his durability given his size, his weight and the fact that he has not had a full season behind the plate in the major league.

 

Trying to turn this around or having multiple IDs singling me out as though I just invented this issue is baloney.

It is not up to me or any other Sox fan to prove why we are concerned about relying on Flowers as our starting catcher when it is obvious. The fact that some "think" he will improve and hit over .250 with 25-30 home runs is fine, and I hope that is right.

I am sure thousands of other Sox fans doubt that will happen. Try to accept differing opinions graciously rather than flipping into attack/troll mode.

 

As I have said, I do not acknowledge people who do that and I will not continue to go back and forth to try to get the last word in or to engage people in a worthless, time-consuming, circular argument. In the future, if you want someone to go back and forth with, pick on someone else.

 

Look, take your messiah complex elsewhere. If you don't want to engage in worthless circular arguments, than don't start worthless circular arguments. Don't call me a troll, and don't even begin to accuse me of having multiple IDs in order to attack your unsubstantiated and mostly conjectured argument.

 

 

Thank you

 

 

Also, I would love to see how you are misquoted.

 

Want to talk trends? In four seasons Flowers has had 410 major league at bats, roughly one full season worth of at-bats

for a starting catcher.

In 410 major league at-bats Flowers has hit .205 with 160 strike-outs.

 

Regarding AJ, nobody suggested that the reason to keep him was because of his "freak" home run number last season.

He is a .284 lifetime hitter - a consistent force in the line-up against RH pitchers.

And any Sox fan who has watched a lot of games over his career knows that AJ has been one of our most clutch hitters.

That is not a statistic but it is was an important asset that we have now lost.

By contrast, Flowers is an easy out when facing a strong reliever in clutch situations.

He will be buried in the lower part of the order and might lead the team in hitting into double plays.

And he isn't a load on the bases? OK, well that is your opinion, but in a head to head race, my money is on Monte TeO.

 

I hope that Hector G and Phegley have a great Spring because I do not believe that Flowers is going to cut it.

If he is on pace for his major league .205 average and 160 strike outs , that will not be enough for him to hold down a spot on the 25 man roster.

 

You have him penciled in for .205 with 160 strikeouts based on extrapolated numbers taken from 273 at bats over the course of 4 seasons. Show me how that doesnt define him in your mind.

[Cali]

If the Sox are signing a stop-gap, it ought to be Konerko unless he decides to retire or has a terrible year this year. He's in his late 30's, ought to be on 1 year contracts...and we're kinda familiar with him. Since he's a righty he's also a good counterpoint with Dunn to share the 1b/DH spots.

 

It would be nice, but I think Paulie will get more money from someone else and maybe another year.

[Reddy]

If/When PK leaves, you'll see Viciedo at 1B, especially with our glut of young outfielders.

[fathom]

If/When PK leaves, you'll see Viciedo at 1B, especially with our glut of young outfielders.

 

Or Dunn (if it's next year)

[Jerksticks]

I don't understand what's wrong with being down on Flowers. You can certainly use his numbers and eye tests to suggest he's going to suck. He's shown more suck than good so far.

 

Personally I think he's going to do just fine, but I'm no idiot- I realize the evidence suggests he might suck hard. You can't write off what he's shown us as "sample size" and "irregular playing time" caused suckiness. It's general suckfest with a lil hot streak mixed in. Even The Bridge dominated for a streak.

 

Nobody knows dick yet, but I'm glad we have Kep and Lidstrom.

[Kyyle23]

I don't understand what's wrong with being down on Flowers. You can certainly use his numbers and eye tests to suggest he's going to suck. He's shown more suck than good so far.

 

Personally I think he's going to do just fine, but I'm no idiot- I realize the evidence suggests he might suck hard. You can't write off what he's shown us as "sample size" and "irregular playing time" caused suckiness. It's general suckfest with a lil hot streak mixed in. Even The Bridge dominated for a streak.

 

Nobody knows dick yet, but I'm glad we have Kep and Lidstrom.

 

I dont think there is anything wrong in thinking that he could possibly suck. Me, Wite, SS2K5, balta have all said that there is a possibility that his K rate could manifest and bring him down. But I am not going to sit here and say he is going to suck and he will hit .205 with 160 Ks, and use that as a reason to keep AJ around. AJ has his flaws as well, defensively and offensively. He doesnt walk much and cant block balls anymore, and he isnt getting any younger.

 

I loved AJ, he had some big moments in a Sox uniform. Unfortunately it was time for both sides to move on. It provided financial flexibility for the Sox as well as gave a cheaper option a chance, and we needed to see if Flowers was the future or if he is a never-was. This team is trying to get young on the fly, and tough decisions needed to be made. AJ made the decision to take more money from a team that he felt has a little bit better shot to be competitive(although with the Angels and Oakland kicking down doors, maybe not).

 

We will see if it was sample size or general suckiness this season.

[southsider2k5]

I dont think there is anything wrong in thinking that he could possibly suck. Me, Wite, SS2K5, balta have all said that there is a possibility that his K rate could manifest and bring him down. But I am not going to sit here and say he is going to suck and he will hit .205 with 160 Ks, and use that as a reason to keep AJ around. AJ has his flaws as well, defensively and offensively. He doesnt walk much and cant block balls anymore, and he isnt getting any younger.

 

I loved AJ, he had some big moments in a Sox uniform. Unfortunately it was time for both sides to move on. It provided financial flexibility for the Sox as well as gave a cheaper option a chance, and we needed to see if Flowers was the future or if he is a never-was. This team is trying to get young on the fly, and tough decisions needed to be made. AJ made the decision to take more money from a team that he felt has a little bit better shot to be competitive(although with the Angels and Oakland kicking down doors, maybe not).

 

We will see if it was sample size or general suckiness this season.

 

And I have yet to see that Tyler's bat vs AJ's is why people want to make this switch. We are talking about a kid who is a way better defensive (pitch calling, pitching blocking, throwing, etc) player than AJ probably ever was. He is also signed about about 10% of what AJ made, which allowed us to address 3B and RHH. Plus the entire planet knows that unless AJ is juicing, there is no way in hell he repeats what he did last year.

[ScottyDo]

I don't understand what's wrong with being down on Flowers. You can certainly use his numbers and eye tests to suggest he's going to suck. He's shown more suck than good so far.

 

Personally I think he's going to do just fine, but I'm no idiot- I realize the evidence suggests he might suck hard. You can't write off what he's shown us as "sample size" and "irregular playing time" caused suckiness. It's general suckfest with a lil hot streak mixed in. Even The Bridge dominated for a streak.

 

Nobody knows dick yet, but I'm glad we have Kep and Lidstrom.

See, nobody suggested there was anything wrong with being down on Flowers, exactly. Even I think there's a good chance he won't cut it. The only reason there was an argument in the first place is because someone used poor reasoning, then got mad when people attacked the merit of his argument. You want to say his few and irregular at bats have been mostly poor so you're not confident in him? Cool. Just leave some room for flexibility (which you obviously do) because, as you say, nobody knows dick yet.

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that you can't really know anything until you give a promising prospect an extended look. The small and irregular sample size does not erase his performance by any means, but it obfuscates things quite a bit.

[justBLAZE]

I'm pretty sure it will be Dunn as the 1B for the last year on his deal. He will be getting more 1B time this year to prepare him, IMHO.

[Quin]

I just feel like Paulie retires in a Sox uniform.

 

Then again, I thought that for Buehrle (though that can still happen).

[Reddy]

Is this the longest minor leaguer I'd never heard of for minor leaguer I'd never heard of trade thread ever?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Is this the longest minor leaguer I'd never heard of for minor leaguer I'd never heard of trade thread ever?

 

PHT gets petty brutal every Feb/Mar. Almost as Brutal as Trey Songzzz acting ability. There's just nothing to talk about.

[Quin]

Is this the longest minor leaguer I'd never heard of for minor leaguer I'd never heard of trade thread ever?

 

Fun thing is that the topic of discussion is about neither.

[Princess Dye]

Fun thing is that the topic of discussion is about neither.

 

I'll bring us back to topic. Is anyone else worried about how Hawk tends to pronounce the name "Conor"

[Princess Dye]

if i remember right he says "Corner"

[ScottyDo]

I'll bring us back to topic. Is anyone else worried about how Hawk tends to pronounce the name "Conor"

I think Melton may have actually performed admirably in this regard, in that I didn't notice him butcher Gillaspie's name (my have called him Gillespie). If Melton can do it, anyone can. I'm pretty sure Melton's autograph reads "X"

[Princess Dye]

misspeltin' bill melton

[Texsox]

With the money that JR and Co. saved by not bringing back AJ, I can take a longer vacation, perhaps go out to dinner more often, and maybe buy first editions of On The Road and Dharma Bums.

What are y'all going to do with the money?

 

/ducking guys

[Balta1701]

With the money that JR and Co. saved by not bringing back AJ, I can take a longer vacation, perhaps go out to dinner more often, and maybe buy first editions of On The Road and Dharma Bums.

What are y'all going to do with the money?

 

/ducking guys

I'm going to watch Jake Peavy pitch.

[caulfield12]

I think Melton may have actually performed admirably in this regard, in that I didn't notice him butcher Gillaspie's name (my have called him Gillespie). If Melton can do it, anyone can. I'm pretty sure Melton's autograph reads "X"

 

 

The SD radio guys were wondering why the Sox didn't have anyone doing the Sunday ST game, no DJ and Farmer, and then went on to ask someone in the White Sox PR department if Harrelson was around the park and the response was "Heck (expletive), no!"