Sports Media discussion

[ptatc]

Part of it stems from the interview that was on his show when the whole thing happened, so there's a stronger connection there.

All of stems from the way Coach K treated HIM at Duke. HE absolutely has hated college coaches since then. HE believes they all have too much power and will do evil things with it. HE was taking shots at NU for hiring Collins because Collins picked Duke over NU. HE will always attack college coaches as much as possible and will not consider any other side.

[StrangeSox]

All of stems from the way Coach K treated HIM at Duke. HE absolutely has hated college coaches since then. HE believes they all have too much power and will do evil things with it. HE was taking shots at NU for hiring Collins because Collins picked Duke over NU. HE will always attack college coaches as much as possible and will not consider any other side.

yeah but a lot of them do

[Steve9347]

All of stems from the way Coach K treated HIM at Duke. HE absolutely has hated college coaches since then. HE believes they all have too much power and will do evil things with it. HE was taking shots at NU for hiring Collins because Collins picked Duke over NU. HE will always attack college coaches as much as possible and will not consider any other side.

You're right. Bernstein has a problem with coaches. But he doesn't go around making up stories to hurt their reputations. He's simply reporting something that Steve Alford did that is reprehensible.

[iamshack]

link?

 

thef*ck? You're just making things up.

I am?

 

Everything that comes out of your big mouth is made-up.

 

Do we have to provide links for everything we post if you happen to disagree with us?

[Kyyle23]

Oh, well, that's not really a personally vendetta as much as it is a good stance against assholes.

 

No, this is personal with Bernstein. He also has a vendetta against assholes, but with Alford it is much in the same breath as Paterno/Sandusky in Bernsteins eyes. He wants to see them burn

[iamshack]

You're right. Bernstein has a problem with coaches. But he doesn't go around making up stories to hurt their reputations. He's simply reporting something that Steve Alford did that is reprehensible.

Considering how Bernstein himself treats other people in his professional work, he just isn't the best person to be carrying forth this particular message.

 

He isn't simply reporting this.

 

He is using his forum to obsessively pound on Alford in the face of plenty of other things to report.

 

Fine, that is great, I recognize his right to do so. But he's doing so partially for his own agenda, and folks are simply pointing that out.

[Dick Allen]

Yes it was.

 

 

Alford: PP, did you rape this girl?

 

PP: No, coach! She's just lying!

 

Alford: Are you sure?

 

PP: Yeah, coach!

 

Alford: Whew! I thought we had a real problem here! I'll just get the christian athlete association to tell this liar to keep her mouth shut.

 

 

 

Steve Alford: Moral coward, or dumbest man on the planet? You decide!

False accusations, especially college-aged women for that particular crime are pretty common. But I'm glad you have the scoop on how the conversation went. Alford has at least one daughter. If you really think he would trade rape for a few wins, IMO you are way off. He trusted his player, something that if he didn't do, and Pierce wound up innocent, he would have been ripped for that.

[StrangeSox]

False accusations, especially college-aged women for that particular crime are pretty common.

 

Nah, but this sort of assumption gets into an entirely different issue which I've intentionally avoided.

 

But I'm glad you have the scoop on how the conversation went.

 

Yeah, it was a hypothetical to illustrate the absurdity of your argument that the ONLY thing he did wrong was trusting the wrong guy. This is apologia straight from the PSU playbook. Even if he did believe Pierce (because he was also under the false victim-blaming assumption that many of them aren't really victims at all!), it still doesn't come close to excusing his efforts to silence the girl.

 

Alford has at least one daughter.

 

I guess that means he couldn't possibly cover up for a rapist? Joe Paterno had kids who were little boys once, too, but that didn't stop him and the rest of the PSU apparatus from protecting Sandusky.

 

If you really think he would trade rape for a few wins, IMO you are way off. He trusted his player, something that if he didn't do, and Pierce wound up innocent, he would have been ripped for that.

 

I know he made an effort to cover up the allegations of a rape. I don't care if he trusted Pierce, he never, ever should do that. It's disgusting that you think trusting the accused justifies using behind-the-scenes pressure to silence an alleged victim.

[StrangeSox]

Considering how Bernstein himself treats other people in his professional work, he just isn't the best person to be carrying forth this particular message.

 

He isn't simply reporting this.

 

He is using his forum to obsessively pound on Alford in the face of plenty of other things to report.

 

Fine, that is great, I recognize his right to do so. But he's doing so partially for his own agenda, and folks are simply pointing that out.

 

But other folks like Dick Allen are trying to justify actions taken to silence a rape victim because 'trust'

[Steve9347]

I am?

 

Everything that comes out of your big mouth is made-up.

 

Do we have to provide links for everything we post if you happen to disagree with us?

Well, this is made up. You don't even know the size of my mouth.

[iamshack]

But other folks like Dick Allen are trying to justify actions taken to silence a rape victim because 'trust'

Yeah, I understand. I was just explaining all the stuff I was making up.

[southsider2k5]

But other folks like Dick Allen are trying to justify actions taken to silence a rape victim because 'trust'

 

No one has tried to justify it. That is exactly what I am talking about with weak arguments. Quit making stuff up. Questioning the Berstein is not excusing anything.

[Dick Allen]

But other folks like Dick Allen are trying to justify actions taken to silence a rape victim because 'trust'

I'm not trying to justify it, and as I stated if you asked Alford to give you an honest answer, he would regret having any role in that, but Alford believed his player was being accused of something he didn't do. Hard to believe I'm sure. Only time it's ever happened, I'm sure. If believing someone who turned out to be lying to you makes one a scumbag, everyone is a scumbag.

[StrangeSox]

No one has tried to justify it. That is exactly what I am talking about with weak arguments. Quit making stuff up. Questioning the Berstein is not excusing anything.

 

Oh shut up. Dick is not "questioning Bernstein" here, he's trying to make excuses for Alford's actions. He's trying to tell me his only mistake was trust. I don't even have to bother to find a post a page or two back to quote because he does it right after yours!

 

I'm not trying to justify it, and as I stated if you asked Alford to give you an honest answer, he would regret having any role in that, but Alford believed his player was being accused of something he didn't do. Hard to believe I'm sure. Only time it's ever happened, I'm sure. If believing someone who turned out to be lying to you makes one a scumbag, everyone is a scumbag.

 

Bulls***. You said his mistake was trusting Pierce. When I called you out on that, you stood by it.

 

No, his major mistake was pressuring the girl to keep quiet. Not that he trusted the player until proven otherwise--I don't think anyone would really give one s*** about that. This is specifically about his actions to cover this up. Regardless of whether or not he believed Pierce or now regrets the incredibly s***ty actions he took is not relevant to your claim that "the only" mistake was trusting Pierce. You only confirm this again with your last line, as if the only reason he's criticized is for believing his player. Even when denying that you're excusing his actions, you can't help but try to excuse his actions.

Edited April 3, 2013 by StrangeSox

[Jenksismyhero]

No one has tried to justify it. That is exactly what I am talking about with weak arguments. Quit making stuff up. Questioning the Berstein is not excusing anything.

 

The problem is the way you phrased your initial response. You're making it seem like there's no good reason for Bernstein to bring this up, when there is a good reason, even if it is for selfish financial reasons. No one is claiming that Bernstein is a saint doing this for the purpose of advancing awareness of sexual assaults. His motives are irrelevant. It's good thing to remind other people about assholes that try to cover s*** up for the sake of their job/program.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Oh shut up. Dick is not "questioning Bernstein" here, he's trying to make excuses for Alford's actions. He's trying to tell me his only mistake was trust. I don't even have to bother to find a post a page or two back to quote because he does it right after yours!

 

 

 

Bulls***. You said his "only mistake" was trusting Pierce. When I called you out on that, you stood by it.

 

No, his major mistake was pressuring the girl to keep quiet. Not that he trusted the player until proven otherwise--I don't think anyone would really give one s*** about that. This is specifically about his actions to cover this up. Regardless of whether or not he believed Pierce or now regrets the incredibly s***ty actions he took is not relevant to your claim that "the only" mistake was trusting Pierce. You only confirm this again with your last line, as if the only reason he's criticized is for believing his player. Even when denying that you're excusing his actions, you can't help but try to excuse his actions.

And why did he pressure the girl? Because he trusted and believed Pierce which turned out to be a huge mistake.

 

Pierce was immediately suspended after he was charged and did sit out a season.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Dick Allen

[StrangeSox]

And why did he pressure the girl? Because he trusted and believed Pierce which turned out to be a huge mistake.

 

Right, so trusting Pierce was a mistake that is completely forgivable. Issuing a statement that you support your players, believe he is innocent and that an investigation will clear him is a 100% reasonable thing to do.

 

But, uh, you keep forgetting a critical part. You know, the part where Alford decided to pressure the girl into silence. The part where he tried to prevent a legitimate investigation into a sexual assault from taking place. The part where he abused his power and position to attempt to silence the voice of a victim. The part where he was a moral monster. That is his mistake, not trusting Pierce. Plenty of people believe friends and family members to be innocent without trying to silence the alleged victims, because that is an unquestionably s***ty and immoral thing to do.

 

I really hope you have some sort of blinders in this case and don't actually think Alford's actions are legit simply because he "trusted the wrong person" when applied broadly. Because that's a pretty f***ed view.

[Steve9347]

And why did he pressure the girl? Because he trusted and believed Pierce which turned out to be a huge mistake.

 

Pierce was immediately suspended after he was charged and did sit out a season.

Why did a grown man ensure that a college girl who was sexually assaulted kept her mouth shut? Because of trust?

 

He could have had video evidence that nothing happened and still been outside his duties and rights by strong-arming that girl, through a religious outfit no less.

 

That's despicable. What's more despicable is that people so quickly shrug it off as no big deal and would say he was duped by Pierce. Alford had no right to arrange any sort of confrontation with the abused girl in this situation. It's not that hard a fact to understand.

[StrangeSox]

I don't know how he didn't get charged with obstruction of justice, to be honest.

[Jenksismyhero]

I don't know how he didn't get charged with obstruction of justice, to be honest.

 

He didn't prevent her from going to the police. He just got the teams religious person to tell her there was a prayer meeting and then when she got there and there wasn't a prayer meeting they told her Jesus doesn't like tattletales.

[StrangeSox]

how is that not a crime though? it's pretty clearly intimidation.

[Jenksismyhero]

how is that not a crime though? it's pretty clearly intimidation.

 

Eh. It's immoral, I don't think it's illegal. She ended up reporting him and filing charges so...

[StrangeSox]

Wouldn't tehre be some sort of "witness intimidation" protection for a victim?

[Dick Allen]

Right, so trusting Pierce was a mistake that is completely forgivable. Issuing a statement that you support your players, believe he is innocent and that an investigation will clear him is a 100% reasonable thing to do.

 

But, uh, you keep forgetting a critical part. You know, the part where Alford decided to pressure the girl into silence. The part where he tried to prevent a legitimate investigation into a sexual assault from taking place. The part where he abused his power and position to attempt to silence the voice of a victim. The part where he was a moral monster. That is his mistake, not trusting Pierce. Plenty of people believe friends and family members to be innocent without trying to silence the alleged victims, because that is an unquestionably s***ty and immoral thing to do.

 

I really hope you have some sort of blinders in this case and don't actually think Alford's actions are legit simply because he "trusted the wrong person" when applied broadly. Because that's a pretty f***ed view.

One other thing to consider is the girl was a student/athlete. The athletic department probably was more involved because of it. I don't find his actions legit, I believe he should have stayed out of it, let the others handle it,but he cared about his player and knew if he was convicted of this crime he didn't believe his player committed would ruin the guy's life. If you think a person close to you is being falsely accused of rape, wouldn't you think the person accusing them is lying? But again, it all came down to trusting what Pierre Pierce had to say. If he truly thought he was lying, he would have thrown him off the team. Why isn't Bernstein going after the University or the AD? They didn't even throw him out of school.

[Steve9347]

One other thing to consider is the girl was a student/athlete. The athletic department probably was more involved because of it. I don't find his actions legit, I believe he should have stayed out of it, let the others handle it,but he cared about his player and knew if he was convicted of this crime he didn't believe his player committed would ruin the guy's life. If you think a person close to you is being falsely accused of rape, wouldn't you think the person accusing them is lying? But again, it all came down to trusting what Pierre Pierce had to say. If he truly thought he was lying, he would have thrown him off the team. Why isn't Bernstein going after the University or the AD? They didn't even throw him out of school.

How does the girl being an athlete have anything to do with a fake prayer meeting?