Chicago White Sox Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (Lillian @ Mar 8, 2013 -> 05:28 AM) It may be hyperbole, but it's not my hyperbole. That is what the Sanchez' manager told K.W. He doesn't have to be Roberto Alomar to represent an improvement, considering the money the Sox are now spending on their SS. Look, I'm not saying that Alexei is terrible. I just don't think that he is a $10 million a year SS, and if they could get something of value for him, it seems to make sense to explore the possiblities, especially when they have a very promising young replacement like Sanchez. If the Sox can't get anything of value, or if they don't think that Sanchez is ready, then perhaps it would be better to wait, and hope for a rebound season from Alexei. However, I agree with Marty, in that I don't see Alexei finishing that contract in Chicago. Alexei makes $7 million this year, followed by $9.5 & $10 million in 2014 & 2015. For comparison, Stephen Drew signed a 1 year, $9.5 million deal coming off a 0 WAR season. Just goes to show you what even an average SS can get on the open market. Look, I'm not going to argue that Alexei's contract will look great if his bat doesn't improve, but as long as his defense remains strong it will never be an albatross. Defense simply holds too much value at the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Mar 7, 2013 -> 07:23 PM) At the expense of punting this season? Do you really think we have no chance to compete this year? And punting this season in April... With Sox fans who STILL bring up the White Flag trade after over 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Mar 7, 2013 -> 07:33 PM) Gillispie >>>>>>> than Alexi offensively. I don't really think you can draw that conclusion yet. Gillaspie has no major league track record to speak of. He's a high doubles guy who'd be playing in a part that takes away doubles with its small gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (Lillian @ Mar 7, 2013 -> 07:40 PM) I agree that the Sox should be not simply be dumping the contract, but looking for something worthwhile in return. My suggestion was one of the Cardinal's many RHP. The Sox are going to be looking for legit IF prospects. Bell himself said it was the weakest part of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Mar 7, 2013 -> 07:34 PM) Absolutely, he has turned into a terrible offensive player, and he is entering the decline phase of his career. He is easily the worst contract on the team. At this point now I get you are just trolling everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 8, 2013 -> 06:42 AM) I don't really think you can draw that conclusion yet. Gillaspie has no major league track record to speak of. He's a high doubles guy who'd be playing in a part that takes away doubles with its small gaps. Yeah, I think some people are jumping too quickly on the Gillaspie bandwagon. I'll admit I'm excited about the possibly of him becoming quality role player for us, but he's still a complete unknown at the major league level. Wanting to give him a starting job based on a strong spring training seems like a very bad idea to me. Plus he's never produced enough in the minors to suggest he should ever be a regular. Let's see how does in April & May and if all goes well we can find a way to get his bat into the lineup more. For now he remains an unknown quantity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Whenever I hear of Furcal, I recall his back injury, which sounds like it was very similar to Morel's, and that Furcal (like Todd Helton) had it surgically fixed and Brent chose not to, and now he is looking at being sent down or cut. If he had had the surgery, he would have likely been ready to go by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (oldsox @ Mar 8, 2013 -> 07:08 AM) Whenever I hear of Furcal, I recall his back injury, which sounds like it was very similar to Morel's, and that Furcal (like Todd Helton) had it surgically fixed and Brent chose not to, and now he is looking at being sent down or cut. If he had had the surgery, he would have likely been ready to go by now. Back surgery is never a sure thing for anyone. Plus, are you really going to use Rafael Furcal as a good example of someone who dealt with injuries and came out better for it? Furcal has spent a lot of time on a lot of disabled lists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteward Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) Whenever I hear of Furcal, I recall his back injury, which sounds like it was very similar to Morel's, and that Furcal (like Todd Helton) had it surgically fixed and Brent chose not to, and now he is looking at being sent down or cut. If he had had the surgery, he would have likely been ready to go by now. To your point, yesterday I heard Farmeo refer to Morel's "surgically repaired back." I thought "what?" I never heard that he had any surgery. That being the case, I entirely agree with your point. Morel's back is like a time bomb. It is only a matter of time before the problem resurfaces. And that is unfortunate for Brent and his ML career. The Sox can't allow that to become their problem though. From what we have seen thus far at least Conor Gilaspie can fit in as a platoon LH bat player at 3rd base with Kepp. If he hits North of .250, plays respectable D, his playing time will go up. If not, he may slide into the Minors. Meanwhile, this keeps up pressure on Beckham. He could see reduced playing time if Conor(or Morel) and Kepp are hitting and he isn't. As far as Alexei, get real with the trolling. He is become and outstanding defensive ss and has proven he can hit in the past. He needs to cut down on the home run swing and make some adjustments, but he has a decent eye and is an excellent athlete. And remember trolls, this isn't an Epstein fire sale. The Sox know Detroit has much better talent but they are not on board with tanking the team for 5 years while remodeling the stadium and banking minor league prospects. That's your boy's plan. Edited March 8, 2013 by southside_hitman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (oldsox @ Mar 8, 2013 -> 08:08 AM) Whenever I hear of Furcal, I recall his back injury, which sounds like it was very similar to Morel's, and that Furcal (like Todd Helton) had it surgically fixed and Brent chose not to, and now he is looking at being sent down or cut. If he had had the surgery, he would have likely been ready to go by now. Someone recommended a surgery for Morel? This is the first I've heard of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Maybe he was thinking JOE! CREDE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (southside_hitman @ Mar 8, 2013 -> 07:41 AM) To your point, yesterday I heard Farmeo refer to Morel's "surgically repaired back." I thought "what?" I never heard that he had any surgery. That being the case, I entirely agree with your point. Morel's back is like a time bomb. It is only a matter of time before the problem resurfaces. And that is unfortunate for Brent and his ML career. The Sox can't allow that to become their problem though. From what we have seen thus far at least Conor Gilaspie can fit in as a platoon LH bat player at 3rd base with Kepp. If he hits North of .250, plays respectable D, his playing time will go up. If not, he may slide into the Minors. Meanwhile, this keeps up pressure on Beckham. He could see reduced playing time if Conor(or Morel) and Kepp are hitting and he isn't. As far as Alexei, get real with the trolling. He is become and outstanding defensive ss and has proven he can hit in the past. He needs to cut down on the home run swing and make some adjustments, but he has a decent eye and is an excellent athlete. And remember trolls, this isn't an Epstein fire sale. The Sox know Detroit has much better talent but they are not on board with tanking the team for 5 years while remodeling the stadium and banking minor league prospects. That's your boy's plan. I wouldn't go that far. If he works with the medical staff and keeps up with the exercises there is no reason to think that he can't continue playing regularly. Of course there is never a guarantee but with his age and the fact that they got to it early is a big help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 [/b] At this point now I get you are just trolling everyone. I'm not a troll. I really don't like him as a player. He's an offensive black hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Alexei Ramirez is a worse contract than Adam Dunn? Even in the worst season of his career last year, Alexei had a higher WAR than Adam Dunn. Alexei had nearly a 5 win season in 2011. He doesn't need to be a great hitter to be valuable, because he plays the second most demanding position on the field and plays it really well. He sucked ass last year at the plate, but that's not a guarantee to happen again. Almost all projection systems have him putting up .270/.310/.380, which is perfectly acceptable from a very good fielding SS. I don't care about his WAR. Put Sanchez at SS, and you would get a similar defense-enhanced WAR. Big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Mar 8, 2013 -> 09:16 AM) I'm not a troll. I really don't like him as a player. He's an offensive black hole. Even Sanchez's minor league numbers aren't really any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I would trade them Ramirez for Taveras straight up or no deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) What I don't understand is you want to get rid of Ramirez because you don't think he's worth his salary, then put a rookie at SS, and then spend money signing Grady Sizemore, who hasn't been good or healthy in 4 years, and I'm thinking the lone reason is he is left handed. How does that improve the team in 2013? Many of these trade ideas seem to be helping other teams instead of the Sox. Sanchez might be a good player one day, but making him the everyday SS now would probably have one pining for Ramirez in a month. Not to mention, Ramirez' trade value is probably at a low right now. Edited March 8, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 8, 2013 -> 04:24 PM) Even Sanchez's minor league numbers aren't really any better. And his offense might be a question at this time. I think he needs more seasoning at AAA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 His career minor league OPS (granted, only two seasons) is .752. He put up 769 for the majority of last year in A ball and 564 in Charlotte. He's going to turn 21 June 29th. People are crazy to think his offense RIGHT NOW is going to be anywhere close to what Alexei Ramirez will put up at his very worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Mar 7, 2013 -> 07:33 PM) Gillispie >>>>>>> than Alexi offensively. Gillaspie's had a total of 48 ML PAs and he's been awful in them. What makes you think he'll be better than Alexei? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Because Alexei has claimed that his wrist really bothered him, after colliding with de Aza on July 28th, it's interesting to see if that might have been responsible for his numbers having been so far off the previous 3 seasons. Actually, he had a very good August, following the collision; AVG .290 OBP.321 SLG .480. So much for that hypothesis. If he rebounds, he's certainly an asset and probably worth this year's salary of $7.5 million. That's what I'm hoping will be the case. Next year, if Sanchez is ready, it would make sense to trade Alexei, as the last two years of that contract are pretty expensive. I appreciate the constructive comments from everyone, on both sides of the argument. I'm persuaded that it's probably too early to rush Sanchez, although he will probably be a very good player. Ramirez might have just had an off year, and apparently has trained very hard this off season. We can be optimistic that he will bounce back, and he is a great defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) Are they a likely playoff team with Ramirez this year? No Are they a likely playoff team with/because of Ramirez in 2014 or 2015? No. Building block beyond '15? No Edited March 8, 2013 by Marty34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Gillaspie's had a total of 48 ML PAs and he's been awful in them. What makes you think he'll be better than Alexei? His minor league track record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Mar 8, 2013 -> 05:04 PM) His minor league track record. Why is that so great? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 8, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) Are they a likely playoff team with Ramirez this year? No Are they a likely playoff team with/because of Ramirez in 2014 or 2015? No. Building block beyond '15? No If they're not trying to compete in 2013/14, why sign Peavy? Keppinger? Keeping Wise on the roster instead of trying Mitchell or Thompson? Heck, by that argument, Gordon Beckham should also be gone, but clearly they're rolling the dice based on the belief that he would put up better numbers than anyone in their minor league system, including both Sanchezes. Would you have preferred to have Brent Morel coming into 2013 as your starting 3B? And how many tickets would have been sold at this point had they 1) let Peavy go, 2) announced Morel as the incumbent, 3) dumped Alexei Ramirez for an unknown, 4) dumped Thornton/Crain and not signed Lindstrom? It would be a train wreck. Then you'd be turning around and saying JR should sell the franchise because he doesn't want to invest the money in say, Josh Hamilton, who would be lucky to play 130 games and would end up more of an albatross contract in his 30's than Dunn, Rios or John Danks. What's next? Now that we've signed Chris Sale to a very friendly, cost-controlled/projectable/insurable contract, we trade him off to the highest bidder for the top 3 players from another team's minor league system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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