max power Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 9, 2013 -> 12:20 PM) We've been down this road before. You can say that he has advocated trading for the likes or BJ Upton and Juan Pierre. OTOH, Marty has spent 80% of his time the last couple of years advocating that Ramirez and Viciedo be traded, and that KW was a bad GM. Still, he has defended Ozzie Guillen, so he's apparently not against all Hispanics, although he's been very quiet about Alex Rios. Maybe it's Marty's version of a backhand compliment that he realizes both Ramirez and Viciedo have more trade value than pretty much anyone on the Sox not named Chris Sale. It just gets to seem like a pattern/trend because he's ceaselessly picking on Ramirez earning just $7.5 million this season when the likes of Dunn, Konerko and John Danks are earning considerably more... Or perhaps it comes off as an anti-Cuban bias, who knows. So I would ask the opposite. Has he ever said anything positive about a Cuban player on the Sox? There's only two cubans on the team. You can't make a pattern out of two. In my mind, marty pretty much hates the white sox as they are whether he knows it or not and who he decides to pick on is pretty inconsequential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 QUOTE (southside_hitman @ Mar 9, 2013 -> 12:55 PM) "Ozzie Guillen on Peavy vs. Pierzynski: "'I always say when two white guys fight, the foreigners stay away from that,' said Guillen, a native of Venezuela. ‘I just got my (citizenship) two years ago. I want to stay away from that.'" As I mentioned earlier, I do not want to engage you in any discussion here, and I won't, but it is interesting that you want to engage me. Sorry dude, you are on my permanent ignore list. I don't understand how that can be understood to definitively be a racist comment. I mean, what ozzie said was pretty stupid, but those are just the thoughts of a single individual, who said a great number of stupid things through out his life and it is posted without comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 QUOTE (southside_hitman @ Mar 9, 2013 -> 12:55 PM) "Ozzie Guillen on Peavy vs. Pierzynski: "'I always say when two white guys fight, the foreigners stay away from that,' said Guillen, a native of Venezuela. ‘I just got my (citizenship) two years ago. I want to stay away from that.'" As I mentioned earlier, I do not want to engage you in any discussion here, and I won't, but it is interesting that you want to engage me. Sorry dude, you are on my permanent ignore list. First off, you come on to this website and are posting all of three months and less than 100 posts and have accused an admin and multiple other posters have being the same person and following you from another website. Second off, you have thrown around that others are trolling, again, only being here for a couple months and a handful of posts. Now, you accuse people(specifically me) of being racist. It is my job as an admin to ask what you feel is racist. I dont really see how my Ozzie Guillen quote portrays me as being racist towards hispanics, or any color for that matter. You and your tight tinfoil hat obviously decided that I am the person following you around from other websites, but I can assure you that I have no interest in "engaging" you for any other reason that discussing your opinions on the Sox, just like any other member on this site. Plus, I have been a member here for 8 years, and an admin for over 3. Seems like quite an epic troll job to be following you around for that long and also maintain a totally normal and sane personality on this site, dont you think? Multiple members of this site are friends with me on facebook, twitter, and even friends outside of the internet. Ask Steve, Jake, SS2K5, lostfan, knightni, or even the owner of this site Chisoxfn if i have any other name other than Kyle, since you seem to think my name is Bill. Most of them have seen my facebook page and have seen pictures of my 2(almost 3) children, wife, brother, father, etc. in short, you are 100 percent wrong about who you think I am. Put me on ignore, I dont give a s***. I suggest you take me off ignore to read this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 QUOTE (MAX @ Mar 9, 2013 -> 01:20 PM) I don't understand how that can be understood to definitively be a racist comment. I mean, what ozzie said was pretty stupid, but those are just the thoughts of a single individual, who said a great number of stupid things through out his life and it is posted without comment. I found it funny. Thats all. I always found Ozzie to be funny, he just devolved in the manager department when he decided he was the star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) 1) Ozzie was a very poor manager his last two years here. If there is any doubt, look at the record. 2) Lexi and Dayan struggle to get their OBPs above .300, so I could see why some advocate trading them. 3) KW presided over the worst minor league system in the game for many years, and we are still being affected by the fallout. If you care about your team's minor league system, the argument against KW as a good GM is a sensible one. The above points are facts, not racism. Edited March 9, 2013 by Andy the Clown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Mar 9, 2013 -> 03:02 PM) 2) Lexi and Dayan struggle to get their OBPs above .300, so I could see why some advocate trading them. Alexei's OBP for his career is .316 and it's been above .300 every year of his career except last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Alexei's OBP for his career is .316 and it's been above .300 every year of his career except last year. Wow, I guess you got me there. That completely changes my perception of him as a ballplayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 9, 2013 -> 12:20 PM) We've been down this road before. You can say that he has advocated trading for the likes or BJ Upton and Juan Pierre. OTOH, Marty has spent 80% of his time the last couple of years advocating that Ramirez and Viciedo be traded, and that KW was a bad GM. Still, he has defended Ozzie Guillen, so he's apparently not against all Hispanics, although he's been very quiet about Alex Rios. Maybe it's Marty's version of a backhand compliment that he realizes both Ramirez and Viciedo have more trade value than pretty much anyone on the Sox not named Chris Sale. It just gets to seem like a pattern/trend because he's ceaselessly picking on Ramirez earning just $7.5 million this season when the likes of Dunn, Konerko and John Danks are earning considerably more... Or perhaps it comes off as an anti-Cuban bias, who knows. So I would ask the opposite. Has he ever said anything positive about a Cuban player on the Sox? To build a case that someone is a racist and not directly call them one is a very cowardly thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 QUOTE (southside_hitman @ Mar 9, 2013 -> 11:03 AM) I noticed that there is a thread of intolerance shown towards people and players of color, black or brown, that runs through the threads and signature quotations some people have used here. There has been a lot of it against Ozzie, Kenny Williams and some of the current Latino players. That kind of things is really is intolerable, especially in a sport where it took until the mid- 1947 to even BEGIN a process of eliminating racial segregation and racial prejudice. As far as Alexei Ramirez, I am very impressed with his work ethic and that includes the work he put in with Viciedo training together in the of season. And, at least from what I have seen, he and Viciedo appear to have a good foundation in terms of their upbringing and their character. That not only makes them good people, but solid team players. I doubt you will see the kind of sleaze and criminality that Starlin Castro was involved with, allegedly date raping a young girl after dragging her home drunk to his f --- pad, and then grabbing the first plane out of the country the next morning. So yes, Alexei is a solid if not outstanding shortstop defensively, has occasional power, has been a clutch hitter, and is a very good teammate, especially to young players like Viciedo. He takes a big cut with one of the longer and heavier bats so he strikes out too much, but how many players can we say that about? Dunn, Flowers, Morel,... I've been reading your crap on here for quite a while, just biding my time and seeing how things play out. But this is nothing but a big steaming pile of BS ... which it seems to me is what you spew regularly. As far as I'm concerned, either contribute to the site in a manner that presents baseball viewpoints and stop with the personal attacks, or just go away! I speak my, and only my, opinion here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 QUOTE (southside_hitman @ Mar 9, 2013 -> 12:55 PM) "Ozzie Guillen on Peavy vs. Pierzynski: "'I always say when two white guys fight, the foreigners stay away from that,' said Guillen, a native of Venezuela. ‘I just got my (citizenship) two years ago. I want to stay away from that.'" As I mentioned earlier, I do not want to engage you in any discussion here, and I won't, but it is interesting that you want to engage me. Sorry dude, you are on my permanent ignore list. If that is your proof STFU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 QUOTE (southside_hitman @ Mar 9, 2013 -> 12:55 PM) "Ozzie Guillen on Peavy vs. Pierzynski: "'I always say when two white guys fight, the foreigners stay away from that,' said Guillen, a native of Venezuela. ‘I just got my (citizenship) two years ago. I want to stay away from that.'" As I mentioned earlier, I do not want to engage you in any discussion here, and I won't, but it is interesting that you want to engage me. Sorry dude, you are on my permanent ignore list. you can leave any time. please do. you won't be missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Honestly, I didn't read the whole thread. I'm just going to say that we as Sox fans have been spoiled by SS's over the last decade. Ramirez is absolutely fantastic defensively. He's so good that he makes Beckham look good. He has so much range up the middle and such a strong arm that it allows Beckham to cheat and make up for his lack of range. Ramirez really does make the tough play look routine. The only thing that frustrates me is that he's scared of contact so much that it hurts our pitcher's ability to hold runners. Anything he gives us with the bat is a bonus. He also happens to be a solid hitter, that hits better in RBI situations. He's the least of our problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Defensively, Beckham looks like one of the top 5 2B in baseball with or without Alexei. Edited March 11, 2013 by MAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 9, 2013 -> 02:50 PM) To build a case that someone is a racist and not directly call them one is a very cowardly thing to do. I built a case that you are selectively biased, but not necessarily racist. Those two particular words are commonly confused or interchanged, but definitely not synonyms by any stretch of the imagination. In this particular thread, I wasn't the one who opened up that particular discussion, nor your Horatio Alger/Ayn Randish-defense to begin the other thread. Edited March 11, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 10, 2013 -> 11:15 PM) I built a case that you are selectively biased, but not necessarily racist. Those two particular words are commonly confused or interchanged, but definitely not synonyms by any stretch of the imagination. In this particular thread, I wasn't the one who opened up that particular discussion, nor your Horatio Alger/Ayn Randish-defense to begin the other thread. You left an out in case you were called on it. You're still a coward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 06:40 AM) You left an out in case you were called on it. You're still a coward. Yet somehow giving up on the next two seasons before they're even played isn't, it is actually quite courageous? Edited March 11, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 A courageous act would be for you two to take this flamewar to PM and stop wasting people's time who think there might be worthwhile discussion in this thread. As for the Cardinals - Sox should deal for Allen Craig and then I will masturbate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 11:18 AM) Yet somehow giving up on the next two seasons before they're even played isn't, it is actually quite courageous? I'm floored that you are equating painting me as a racist to what I think the prospects are for the Sox over the next two years. I thought I had seen it all tying racism to jersey sales . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 07:40 AM) You left an out in case you were called on it. You're still a coward. Gee. Maybe I'll start my own sympathetic thread here about being the victim of personal attacks, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 After being called Joe Cowley, being called racist is a step in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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