North Korea

[HuskyCaucasian]

Maybe they'll screw with everyone and launch something at Beijing. You know, something totally out of the blue.

If they do that, North Korea will cease to exist.

[Quin]

If they do that, North Korea will cease to exist.

 

China is just holding North Korea back.

[Jenksismyhero]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-23...ns-warning.html

 

NK tells foreign embassies to get their people out of the country.

 

At this point, I think NK has gone beyond the typical threats right? I mean it usually seems like a threat followed by 4-5 months of silence. This has been a new threat a day for over a week right?

[Reddy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-23...ns-warning.html

 

NK tells foreign embassies to get their people out of the country.

 

At this point, I think NK has gone beyond the typical threats right? I mean it usually seems like a threat followed by 4-5 months of silence. This has been a new threat a day for over a week right?

at this point we have to shut them up. you just CAN'T let them do this and walk away scott-free. even if it is just to solidify his authority to his people. this s*** ain't a game.

[pettie4sox]

This is unreal. I see no viable options other than give it to their demands or go to war. Is there truly middle ground here? What can China do to tame their little chihuahua?

[Quin]

Time for CIA Agent Rodman to save the day.

[Y2HH]

This is unreal. I see no viable options other than give it to their demands or go to war. Is there truly middle ground here? What can China do to tame their little chihuahua?

 

If it were up to me, I'd send Wayne Brady in to choke a b****. But that's going a bit beyond thermonuclear, and may start an intergalactic war.

[RockRaines]

They should aim those nukes at Iran, do us all a favor.

[Jenksismyhero]

Time for CIA Agent Rodman to save the day.

 

Rodman already provided the solution - Obama just needs to make a phone call and start talking basketball.

 

By the way, I'm a HUGE fan of guys like Kerry, and Obama to a lesser extent, now openly talking about doing "anything" to secure our relationship with South Korea and protecting our interests there. Remember when these guys said they would just pick up the phone and schedule a face to face meeting? A little more difficult to say those things when you're a candidate as opposed to the President/Sec of State.

[lostfan]

Rodman already provided the solution - Obama just needs to make a phone call and start talking basketball.

 

By the way, I'm a HUGE fan of guys like Kerry, and Obama to a lesser extent, now openly talking about doing "anything" to secure our relationship with South Korea and protecting our interests there. Remember when these guys said they would just pick up the phone and schedule a face to face meeting? A little more difficult to say those things when you're a candidate as opposed to the President/Sec of State.

I'm not following where you're going with this

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm not following where you're going with this

 

That it's easier being a pacifist when your running a campaign against a guy/party that started the Iraq war. It's much more difficult to be that way when you actually have to confront countries like NK in the "real" world.

[lostfan]

That it's easier being a pacifist when your running a campaign against a guy/party that started the Iraq war. It's much more difficult to be that way when you actually have to confront countries like NK in the "real" world.

Eh... Obama never ran as a pacifist though, honestly not even anything close to it. The whole reason he got the nomination was because he was able to point to his opposition to the Iraq War as being really dumb before it became politically convenient to be against it like probably 1/3 of the professional left did. Kerry being one of them though, which you're more right about, he's a little more full of s*** on this topic.

[Balta1701]

That it's easier being a pacifist when your running a campaign against a guy/party that started the Iraq war. It's much more difficult to be that way when you actually have to confront countries like NK in the "real" world.

Here you witness an incredible example of the Republican caricature of the world and how detached from reality it is...in that a candidate who spent 2007-2008 declaring his intentions openly to send large numbers of additional U.S. forces to Afghanistan and stating that he would send U.S. forces into Pakistan if actionable intelligence on Bin Laden's location was available...is described as having campaigned on a pacifist platform.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah, "the Iraq War was an unmitigated disaster and an unquestionably dumb idea from the day it first brought up in Bush's SOTU speech" is not 'pacifism.' Nor is the idea that war is dumb and should always be the absolute last option and that there are other diplomatic policy tools to use besides missiles.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Here you witness an incredible example of the Republican caricature of the world and how detached from reality it is...in that a candidate who spent 2007-2008 declaring his intentions openly to send large numbers of additional U.S. forces to Afghanistan and stating that he would send U.S. forces into Pakistan if actionable intelligence on Bin Laden's location was available...is described as having campaigned on a pacifist platform.

 

Oh come on now, he gave stump speeches about how he would do everything possible to talk with the evildoers instead of using military threats. I said Obama did it to a lesser extent than Kerry, who basically said military threats were dumb and he'd just call up Kim Jong Il on the phone and set up a meeting.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[lostfan]

Oh come on now, he gave stump speeches about how he would do everything possible to talk with the evildoers instead of using military threats. I said Obama did it to a lesser extent than Kerry, who basically said military threats were dumb and he'd just call up Kim Jong Il on the phone and set up a meeting.

He said he'd do direct diplomacy whereas Republicans said (and still say) the mere thought of it is naive and dumb.

[lostfan]

Oh, speaking of negotiations. That seems to be what NK's beef is. http://www.salon.com/2013/04/05/north_kore...ally_happening/

 

Here's the cliff's notes if you don't want to read the whole thing: the Clinton Administration had high-level talks with them back in '94 and those talks were making progress, then before that finished the Bush administration came in with a totally different approach to diplomacy (i.e. no negotiations, "axis of evil," etc.) and scrapped the '94 agreement. NK responded by saying, in effect, "f*** this" and left the NPT went ahead with its nuclear testing. A few years later they realize they were f***ing up and went ahead with the 6-party talks per Condi and extended the '94 agreement. The Obama administration comes in and more or less waits for Kim Jong-Il to die because they thought his regime was going to collapse - it didn't - and NK tried to negotiate and offer steps to shut down its nuclear program in exchange for a declaration that the US has no hostile intent to NK. They ignored it (dumb). So that leads us to now.

[Steve9347]

Oh, speaking of negotiations. That seems to be what NK's beef is. http://www.salon.com/2013/04/05/north_kore...ally_happening/

 

Here's the cliff's notes if you don't want to read the whole thing: the Clinton Administration had high-level talks with them back in '94 and those talks were making progress, then before that finished the Bush administration came in with a totally different approach to diplomacy (i.e. no negotiations, "axis of evil," etc.) and scrapped the '94 agreement. NK responded by saying, in effect, "f*** this" and left the NPT went ahead with its nuclear testing. A few years later they realize they were f***ing up and went ahead with the 6-party talks per Condi and extended the '94 agreement. The Obama administration comes in and more or less waits for Kim Jong-Il to die because they thought his regime was going to collapse - it didn't - and NK tried to negotiate and offer steps to shut down its nuclear program in exchange for a declaration that the US has no hostile intent to NK. They ignored it (dumb). So that leads us to now.

Thank you.

[Balta1701]

Oh, speaking of negotiations. That seems to be what NK's beef is. http://www.salon.com/2013/04/05/north_kore...ally_happening/

 

Here's the cliff's notes if you don't want to read the whole thing: the Clinton Administration had high-level talks with them back in '94 and those talks were making progress, then before that finished the Bush administration came in with a totally different approach to diplomacy (i.e. no negotiations, "axis of evil," etc.) and scrapped the '94 agreement. NK responded by saying, in effect, "f*** this" and left the NPT went ahead with its nuclear testing. A few years later they realize they were f***ing up and went ahead with the 6-party talks per Condi and extended the '94 agreement. The Obama administration comes in and more or less waits for Kim Jong-Il to die because they thought his regime was going to collapse - it didn't - and NK tried to negotiate and offer steps to shut down its nuclear program in exchange for a declaration that the US has no hostile intent to NK. They ignored it (dumb). So that leads us to now.

He's not here right now for family reasons, but since I already went on this rant a few pages ago and got the "Take off the D/R blinders", someone has to give you your lecture as well.

Their nuclear program goes back to the 50's and 60's, due to the Soviets. Their nuclear programs recent "strides" were thanks to buying it from AQ Khan and Pakistan. It is the same set of "strides" that Iran made. Cash.

 

 

Every source out there has Khan seeding the NK program. Of course that was in the 90's so it couldn't have actually happened because there wasn't a Republican to blame then.

 

 

That is just sad. Look past the D's and R's, just once.

 

[Soxbadger]

A lot of the backdrop is that China is not 100% supporting NK anymore. So now NK has to act more insane to get leverage in negotiations, because they no longer have the universal backing of China.

[StrangeSox]

Well plus the new kid on the block trying to assert his domestic authority over the long-time officials there.

[StrangeSox]

Rodman already provided the solution - Obama just needs to make a phone call and start talking basketball.

 

By the way, I'm a HUGE fan of guys like Kerry, and Obama to a lesser extent, now openly talking about doing "anything" to secure our relationship with South Korea and protecting our interests there. Remember when these guys said they would just pick up the phone and schedule a face to face meeting? A little more difficult to say those things when you're a candidate as opposed to the President/Sec of State.

thought this was relevant from lostfan's link:

 

Before getting to those questions, everybody should take a deep breath. First, as anyone familiar with North Korea knows, any attack by the DPRK on the U.S. or its allies would be suicide for the country of 30 million: It would be met by a relentless counterattack by the most powerful military force the world has ever seen. Threats sound ominous, but at this point that’s all they seem to be: threats, designed to trigger a response in Washington that, in the mind of Kim and his military advisers, might lead to direct talks. (Remember his plaintive request to Dennis Rodman? “Obama should call me.”)

 

edit: the article does make is clear that, while Bush's Korea policy was inexplicably dumb, Obama's policy was bad as well.

Edited April 5, 2013 by StrangeSox

[Jenksismyhero]

Well plus the new kid on the block trying to assert his domestic authority over the long-time officials there.

 

Which I don't get. Is he not the supreme leader? I mean, I get the military officials have the "guns" but if Kim Jong Un/Il were thought of so highly, why not get rid of those officials? It's like they're trying to appease those guys when there shouldn't be any reason to do so.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[Jenksismyhero]

He said he'd do direct diplomacy whereas Republicans said (and still say) the mere thought of it is naive and dumb.

 

Which is crap because we still don't do direct diplomacy and haven't for a long time. It's pretty simple - we talked and they balked, we stopped talking and they balked. At the end of the day they keep providing weapons/training to terrorist groups and continue building their nuclear capabilities and we don't do anything about it but give them MORE money/food/oil whatever.

[StrangeSox]

Which I don't get. Is he not the supreme leader? I mean, I get the military officials have the "guns" but if Kim Jong Un/Il were thought of so highly, why not get rid of those officials? It's like they're trying to appease those guys when there shouldn't be any reason to do so.

 

That would quickly result in a military coup.