North Korea

[Reddy]

I totally agree.

 

We should have been on this problem in 2002 and 2003 when they reprocessed those fuel rods, that was the key time, we stopped negotiating with them then, declared that negotiations were just aiding the enemy, and then turned our backs to deal with a different, um, issue. If we'd kept the fuel rods under seal, as they were until October, 2002 when the monitoring equipment was removed, we wouldn't have this problem right now.

 

We're still paying for that lunacy 10 years later.

 

this in spades.

[southsider2k5]

uh, what?

 

if we'd paid any attention to NK the last 10 years, we potentially wouldn't be at the point we're at now.

 

More like 60, but who is counting...

[Reddy]

More like 60, but who is counting...

 

no you're right, but obviously they've made big strides with their nuclear program in recent years while we were busy fighting two wars

[southsider2k5]

no you're right, but obviously they've made big strides with their nuclear program in recent years while we were busy fighting two wars

 

Their nuclear program goes back to the 50's and 60's, due to the Soviets. Their nuclear programs recent "strides" were thanks to buying it from AQ Khan and Pakistan. It is the same set of "strides" that Iran made. Cash.

[Reddy]

Their nuclear program goes back to the 50's and 60's, due to the Soviets. Their nuclear programs recent "strides" were thanks to buying it from AQ Khan and Pakistan. It is the same set of "strides" that Iran made. Cash.

 

exactly - and both countries made those strides while we were embroiled in two decade long wars

[southsider2k5]

exactly - and both countries made those strides while we were embroiled in two decade long wars

 

We were in decade long wars during the 90's?

[Balta1701]

Their nuclear program goes back to the 50's and 60's, due to the Soviets. Their nuclear programs recent "strides" were thanks to buying it from AQ Khan and Pakistan. It is the same set of "strides" that Iran made. Cash.

North Korea has been detonating plutonium bombs. Khan s old uranium enrichment equipment.

[southsider2k5]

North Korea has been detonating plutonium bombs. Khan s old uranium enrichment equipment.

 

You should try google once in a while.

 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/robcrill...th-koreas-bomb/

[Balta1701]

You should try google once in a while.

 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/robcrill...th-koreas-bomb/

Your own link talks about him selling uranium enrichment.

It also remains unclear whether the North used plutonium or enriched uranium to fuel the bomb. American officials believed that the country’s last two nuclear tests, in 2006 and 2009, used plutonium, and they fear a switch to uranium will allow the country a faster and harder-to-detect path to a bigger arsenal. While scientists are actively hunting for the airborne markers of a uranium test, it is not certain that gases needed to make that judgment escaped the test site.

Link yes, you should also try google.

[Balta1701]

North Korea’s third underground nuclear test last month was fueled by plutonium and was not a device that used enriched uranium, according to the Russian government.

 

Retired Col. Gen. Viktor Yesin, a consultant to the Russian Defense Ministry and former commander of strategic nuclear forces, told the Washington Free Beacon that Russia’s government had obtained new details of the Feb. 12 underground test.

 

Yesin said the North Koreans’ most recent test blast was “an implosion-type nuclear explosive device that used plutonium for fissile material.”

[southsider2k5]

Your own link talks about him selling uranium enrichment.

Link yes, you should also try google.

 

It also talks about the transfer of technology from Pakistan to Iran and to North Korea pretty clearly. That non sequitor doesn't really matter.

[Balta1701]

It also talks about the transfer of technology from Pakistan to Iran and to North Korea pretty clearly. That non sequitor doesn't really matter.

That uranium and plutonium are fundamentally different processes doesn't matter?

 

Sorry man. You can't make one into the other and they don't have a uranium bomb yet. Everything they've tested was stuff that was under un deal until 2002.

 

They certainly want one, but that enrichment cascade isn't easy. Woulda been great if we hadn't been busy in 2002 when they removed all the un monitoring equipment.

[southsider2k5]

That uranium and plutonium are fundamentally different processes doesn't matter?

 

Sorry man. You can't make one into the other and they don't have a uranium bomb yet. Everything they've tested was stuff that was under un deal until 2002.

 

They certainly want one, but that enrichment cascade isn't easy. Woulda been great if we hadn't been busy in 2002 when they removed all the un monitoring equipment.

 

Every source out there has Khan seeding the NK program. Of course that was in the 90's so it couldn't have actually happened because there wasn't a Republican to blame then.

[Reddy]

We were in decade long wars during the 90's?

 

Um... see when i said the last 10 years I assumed that meant back to 2003, maybe as far back as 2000 if you want.

[Balta1701]

Every source out there has Khan seeding the NK program. Of course that was in the 90's so it couldn't have actually happened because there wasn't a Republican to blame then.

He helped them make somethig they don't have working yet.

 

The hard step in making a plutonium bomb is building a nuclear reactor and machining the metal. Once you do build the reactor, it makes plutonium as a waste product. Separating it is easy because it is chemically different from the fuel rods. Machining it is then incredibly difficult, the metal is highly flammable and machining has to be precise. Incorrect machining can cause a bomb to "fizzle", to not go critical, which is exactly what happened in their first test. None of the products of this setup are remotely usable in a uranium bomb. The only similar step is enriching uranium to 20% in order o use in a reactor.

 

The easy step in a uranium bomb is building the bomb. It's simple to do. The near impossible part is enriching the uranium highly, to 98%. That was what Khan developed for Pakistan and sold to both Iran and Libya. If they had a successful uranium enrichment cascade in Korea, they'd have tested that bomb already. To build a uranium bomb we had to build Oak Ridge and employ 25,00 people. The Pakistanis spent 2 decades working on it.

 

Korea had plutonium sitting there, stripped the seals off, and in 3 years machined it to the point it fizzled. They have taken other things from Pakistan but it has not worked yet. You need fundamentally different technology for the 2 paths. Callig it a non sequitur is the same as saying Washington state and Tennessee are the same state, since the us built 2 totally different factories (Hanford and Oak Ridge) to build the 2 different weapons used.

[southsider2k5]

That is just sad. Look past the D's and R's, just once.

[southsider2k5]

Um... see when i said the last 10 years I assumed that meant back to 2003, maybe as far back as 2000 if you want.

 

That's my point. This didn't happen just during the 00's, so just reflexively blaming those wars, again, isn't accurate, no matter how convenient the narrative is.

[Reddy]

That's my point. This didn't happen just during the 00's, so just reflexively blaming those wars, again, isn't accurate, no matter how convenient the narrative is.

Well yeah, but 10 years ago they were 11 or 12 years away from having the capability to successfully weaponize nukes that could reach US targets. Now they're ... what? One year? You dont think this would have been easier to deal with a decade ago? Same question re: Iran.

[southsider2k5]

Well yeah, but 10 years ago they were 11 or 12 years away from having the capability to successfully weaponize nukes that could reach US targets. Now they're ... what? One year? You dont think this would have been easier to deal with a decade ago? Same question re: Iran.

 

This would have been easier to deal with in any of the past 7 decades.

[Kyyle23]

lets say KJU actually pushes the button to launch a rocket at Hawaii/guam/LA, the rocket fails miserably and is shot down/lands in the ocean pathetically. What do you think the reaction is from both China and the US?

[Texsox]

Nuclear Cleanup in Aisle 38, Nuclear Cleanup in Aisle 38.

 

Just like wars in the middle east help American businesses like Boots & Coots, Halliburton, etc. I wonder if there is a publicly traded company that would benefit from a couple nuclear weapons being detonated.

[cabiness42]

lets say KJU actually pushes the button to launch a rocket at Hawaii/guam/LA, the rocket fails miserably and is shot down/lands in the ocean pathetically. What do you think the reaction is from both China and the US?

 

If NK launches a missile at the US, they are getting wiped off the map pretty quickly, regardless of how successful the attack is or isn't. China is not going to stand in the way of a US retaliation against a direct attack.

 

The more dicey scenario is if NK attacks SK and not the US. How far does China let the US go in that case?

 

[Balta1701]

If NK launches a missile at the US, they are getting wiped off the map pretty quickly, regardless of how successful the attack is or isn't. China is not going to stand in the way of a US retaliation against a direct attack.

 

The more dicey scenario is if NK attacks SK and not the US. How far does China let the US go in that case?

If the North attacks the South, all hell will break loose.

 

North Korea has the entire population of Seoul within artillery range. 10 million people will be dead before anyone knows what happened. After that, the only questions will be whether the U.S. vaporizes the North completely or attempts a ground attack.

 

China won't want itself to be destroyed to defend the kind of massacre that would happen in the opening minutes of that conflict.

[Jake]

It would be rather contrary to what is considered appropriate in this age to simply wipe an entire country off the map. If we cared about the human rights abuses under KJI/KJU, then it wouldn't make much sense if we nuked those humans into oblivion.

[southsider2k5]

If the North attacks the South, all hell will break loose.

 

North Korea has the entire population of Seoul within artillery range. 10 million people will be dead before anyone knows what happened. After that, the only questions will be whether the U.S. vaporizes the North completely or attempts a ground attack.

 

China won't want itself to be destroyed to defend the kind of massacre that would happen in the opening minutes of that conflict.

 

Honestly, with as bad as things are in NK, I would be shocked if NKs military abilities were anything near what we have been told they are. I'd say there is a pretty good chance of things like ammunition shortages, malfunctioning/rotting equipment, and major desertion rates.