Alexei called most underrated SS in AL

[Jake]

There is some chance that by some measure, Carlos Sanchez could produce more per dollar than Alexei. But that's not the question -- we need a certain level of production there and whether it costs $9M is not really very important. Alexei is signed at market value and has outproduced his contract significantly every year until last year (when he matched it) according to fangraphs. The value is of his year-to-year consistency is even harder to quantify. Alexei Ramirez is about our 9th biggest problem offensively and defensively.

[caulfield12]

We can talk about "opportunity cost" all we want right now...investing the $27 million of theoretical savings into signing DR talent and Venezuelans and Asians, BUT....

 

what's the cost of

1) punting on the season and White Flagging it by trading Ramirez and plugging in someone who's not yet ready and will definitely struggle and,

2) messing up Sanchez's natural development in the first place and possibly destroying him as a prospect

3) putting even more pressure on Keppinger and Beckham defensively

4) making Peavy on this roster pointless and a waste of money, since we DEFINITELY won't win the AL Central in 2013 with just any random player at SS?

5) back to point 1, what god-awful attendance and revenue numbers would result if the FO takes that position?

Edited March 12, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

We can talk about "opportunity cost" all we want right now...investing the $27 million of theoretical savings into signing DR talent and Venezuelans and Asians, BUT....

 

what's the cost of

1) punting on the season and White Flagging it by trading Ramirez and plugging in someone who's not yet ready and will definitely struggle and,

2) messing up Sanchez's natural development in the first place and possibly destroying him as a prospect

3) putting even more pressure on Keppinger and Beckham defensively

4) making Peavy on this roster pointless and a waste of money, since we DEFINITELY won't win the AL Central in 2013 with just any random player at SS?

5) back to point 1, what god-awful attendance and revenue numbers would result if the FO takes that position?

 

Selling their starting SS in spring training, after resigning Jake Peavy in the off-season? This town would meltdown, and justifiably so.

[Chicago White Sox]

That's making it too easy. As of today, what would it be.

Right now our best alignment is Keppinger at 3B, Ramirez at SS, & Beckham at 2B with Carlos Sanchez as insurance at AAA. We need see how all these guys do this year before we worry about next year. All four guys are question marks to some extent and their performances this year will guide Hahn's decisions next off-season.

 

If I had to guess right now, I think Sanchez replaces Beckham next year, Alexei rebounds at the plate this season and remains at SS, we go out and trade for a legit 3B, and Keppinger is moved to a super-utility role. IMO, you underestimate Ramirez's defense, especially the value it provides us given the amount of resources we've committed to our pitching staff in the near future. As long as he can get his OPS back into the low .700's, I think he's worth his contract.

[lostfan]

I wish Alexei was still that Silver Slugger guy we had like 3 years ago.

[Marty34]

Right now our best alignment is Keppinger at 3B, Ramirez at SS, & Beckham at 2B with Carlos Sanchez as insurance at AAA. We need see how all these guys do this year before we worry about next year. All four guys are question marks to some extent and their performances this year will guide Hahn's decisions next off-season.

 

If I had to guess right now, I think Sanchez replaces Beckham next year, Alexei rebounds at the plate this season and remains at SS, we go out and trade for a legit 3B, and Keppinger is moved to a super-utility role. IMO, you underestimate Ramirez's defense, especially the value it provides us given the amount of resources we've committed to our pitching staff in the near future. As long as he can get his OPS back into the low .700's, I think he's worth his contract.

 

I think it's a question whether he can get his OPS back to 700+, he's 31. Moreover, the 2014 position player situation for the Sox could be a big problem. They could be looking at needing a new catcher, 1B, 2B, SS, not to mention being saddled with Dunn for another year.

 

[caulfield12]

I think it's a question whether he can get his OPS back to 700+, he's 31. Moreover, the 2014 position player situation for the Sox could be a big problem. They could be looking at needing a new catcher, 1B, 2B, SS, not to mention being saddled with Dunn for another year.

 

Don't forget an Alex Rios who's two years older and no longer in his prime or moveable until mid-season 2014 at best.

 

Carlos Sanchez, right now, on the Big Board would have to be penciled into the #2 spot on the depth chart behind both Ramirez and Beckham for 2014. Obviously, that could change as early as June/July of this year.

 

Viciedo can easily slide to 1B. That's not a big deal at all after all the defensive position changes he's gone through.

 

 

STILL, as the old axiom or Royals Failure 101 goes, PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING.

 

It's much easier to fix a line-up offensively than to address a bad starting rotation.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2013 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

I think it's a question whether he can get his OPS back to 700+, he's 31. Moreover, the 2014 position player situation for the Sox could be a big problem. They could be looking at needing a new catcher, 1B, 2B, SS, not to mention being saddled with Dunn for another year.

We potentially have $30 - $35 million coming off the books next year between Konerko, Floyd, Crain, Lindstrom, & Thornton. Maybe we bring back one of those three relievers, but otherwise I think they can be replaced internally. At quick glance, we probably need about $10 - $12 million for raises, and that's assuming we keep Beckham around. Cutting him loose is an easy way to save money if we need to.

 

IMO, we should have enough money to replace Konerko's bat via free agency. Fixing the rest of the offense is going to be a more daunting task, yet I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a few changes between now and next year. IMO, Viciedo and Flowers (assuming he develops) are the only two guys in our current lineup that could be part of our long-term core (2015 and beyond). The rest of this core will need come from our minor league system, the free agent market, and trades.

[caulfield12]

IMO, Viciedo and Flowers (assuming he develops) are the only two guys in our current lineup that could be part of our long-term core (2015 and beyond).

 

And possibly DeAza, although the odds are that Mitchell/Walker/Thompson replaces him as he becomes more expensive in arbitration...

[Chicago White Sox]

IMO, Viciedo and Flowers (assuming he develops) are the only two guys in our current lineup that could be part of our long-term core (2015 and beyond).

 

And possibly DeAza, although the odds are that Mitchell/Walker/Thompson replaces him as he becomes more expensive in arbitration...

Yeah, I just figured with those three guys, Viciedo, & eventually Hawkins, we'll probably look to move De Aza in the next year or two if we can get something of value for him. As solid as he's been for us, he turns 29 in April and I'd probably avoid committing long-term money for a guy who might need to move to a corner in a few years.

[peteward]

The f***. He had an OPS of .650 last year and people try to say "oh, well, if you ignore the first three months... and the last month... he was good!". Yeah, that's half the f***ing season, and every game counts.

God, the desire to phallate Ramirez around here because of a good glove is ridiculous.

Dude hit 140 OPS points below his rookie season. Dude has 711 OPS over the last four years. Dude's also 32 this year. f*cking statistics of f*cking shortstops ranked by OPS 2012

 

Another juvenile and vulgar post. I'm seeing a pattern.

[caulfield12]

The opposite is true, as well.

 

The desire to celebrate the "chicks dig the long ball," three run homers and a cloud of dust offense from say 2000-2004 and the 2008 team is out of style, too.

 

The White Sox have always done the best when they had solid defense and Top 5 starting pitching. Period.

 

 

[Steve9347]

Another juvenile and vulgar post. I'm seeing a pattern.

I am a passionate being - and if you call that vulgar, you ain't seen nothin'!

Edited March 13, 2013 by Steve9347

[peteward]

I am a passionate being - and if you call that vulgar, you ain't seen nothin'!

 

"Phallate" Ramirez?

I am seeing a pattern among a few posters, a juvenile argumentative style

like kids quarreling among themselves in the back seat of a car or a couple of pimply teenage Cub fans

who just learned how to swear and are coupling that with their North side dude-speak.

 

The White Sox do not have many players who are rated in the top ten at their respective positions. If my memory serves me well, the "Shredder" at MLBTV only had Konerko, AJ and Alexei rated among the top 10 players at their respective positions based on their performance up to this season. In any case, this was their respective ratings at short stop:

 

The Shredder

 

1. T. Tulowitzki (COL)

2. J. Reyes (MIA)

3. Y. Escobar (TOR)

4. A. Cabrera (CLE)

5. A. Ramirez (CHW)

6. S. Drew (ARI)

7. J. Peralta (DET)

8. J. Hardy (BAL)

9. E. Aybar (LAA)

10. Jeter (NYY)

 

Shean's List

 

1. Tulowitzki

2. Reyes

3. Andrus

4. Escobar

5. Cabrera

6. Castro

7. Ramirez

8. Hardy

9. Aybar

10. Rollins

 

Larry Bowa's List

 

1. Tulowitzki

2. AYBAR

3. Reyes

4. Ramirez

5. Cabrera

6. Rollins

7. Hardy

8. Jeter

9. Gonzalez

10. Andrus

 

It is bad enough that the Sox will not have AJ, a top ten rated catcher, this season.

Why would we want to trade another top player from a team that we hope can

at least compete against the Tigers after they have overwhelmed everyone else in the Division

with the level of talent they have?

 

 

 

[Jake]

"Phallate" Ramirez?

I am seeing a pattern among a few posters, a juvenile argumentative style

like kids quarreling among themselves in the back seat of a car or a couple of pimply teenage Cub fans

who just learned how to swear and are coupling that with their North side dude-speak.

 

The White Sox do not have many players who are rated in the top ten at their respective positions. If my memory serves me well, the "Shredder" at MLBTV only had Konerko, AJ and Alexei rated among the top 10 players at their respective positions based on their performance up to this season. In any case, this was their respective ratings at short stop:

 

The Shredder

 

1. T. Tulowitzki (COL)

2. J. Reyes (MIA)

3. Y. Escobar (TOR)

4. A. Cabrera (CLE)

5. A. Ramirez (CHW)

6. S. Drew (ARI)

7. J. Peralta (DET)

8. J. Hardy (BAL)

9. E. Aybar (LAA)

10. Jeter (NYY)

 

Shean's List

 

1. Tulowitzki

2. Reyes

3. Andrus

4. Escobar

5. Cabrera

6. Castro

7. Ramirez

8. Hardy

9. Aybar

10. Rollins

 

Larry Bowa's List

 

1. Tulowitzki

2. AYBAR

3. Reyes

4. Ramirez

5. Cabrera

6. Rollins

7. Hardy

8. Jeter

9. Gonzalez

10. Andrus

 

It is bad enough that the Sox will not have AJ, a top ten rated catcher, this season.

Why would we want to trade another top player from a team that we hope can

at least compete against the Tigers after they have overwhelmed everyone else in the Division

with the level of talent they have?

 

The word "pimply" made me love this post

[southsider2k5]

"Phallate" Ramirez?

I am seeing a pattern among a few posters, a juvenile argumentative style

like kids quarreling among themselves in the back seat of a car or a couple of pimply teenage Cub fans

who just learned how to swear and are coupling that with their North side dude-speak.

 

The White Sox do not have many players who are rated in the top ten at their respective positions. If my memory serves me well, the "Shredder" at MLBTV only had Konerko, AJ and Alexei rated among the top 10 players at their respective positions based on their performance up to this season. In any case, this was their respective ratings at short stop:

 

Do they wear their hats to the back?

 

[caulfield12]

Do they wear their hats to the back?

 

 

That's the best way to get a tan in the bleachers while also protecting your neck from sunburn, lol.

 

 

However, it is super cool when a cute girl is wearing a Sox cap backwards or at an angle...the Korean style is with the completely straight bill and the New Era sticker still attached.

 

The White Sox cap was definitely the most popular one there (in South Korea), or at least top 3. Japan, not as popular. Maybe the memories of Iguchi and Gong Takatsu have faded.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2013 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

"Phallate" Ramirez?

I am seeing a pattern among a few posters, a juvenile argumentative style

like kids quarreling among themselves in the back seat of a car or a couple of pimply teenage Cub fans

who just learned how to swear and are coupling that with their North side dude-speak.

 

The White Sox do not have many players who are rated in the top ten at their respective positions. If my memory serves me well, the "Shredder" at MLBTV only had Konerko, AJ and Alexei rated among the top 10 players at their respective positions based on their performance up to this season. In any case, this was their respective ratings at short stop:

 

The Shredder

 

1. T. Tulowitzki (COL)

2. J. Reyes (MIA)

3. Y. Escobar (TOR)

4. A. Cabrera (CLE)

5. A. Ramirez (CHW)

6. S. Drew (ARI)

7. J. Peralta (DET)

8. J. Hardy (BAL)

9. E. Aybar (LAA)

10. Jeter (NYY)

 

Shean's List

 

1. Tulowitzki

2. Reyes

3. Andrus

4. Escobar

5. Cabrera

6. Castro

7. Ramirez

8. Hardy

9. Aybar

10. Rollins

 

Larry Bowa's List

 

1. Tulowitzki

2. AYBAR

3. Reyes

4. Ramirez

5. Cabrera

6. Rollins

7. Hardy

8. Jeter

9. Gonzalez

10. Andrus

 

It is bad enough that the Sox will not have AJ, a top ten rated catcher, this season.

Why would we want to trade another top player from a team that we hope can

at least compete against the Tigers after they have overwhelmed everyone else in the Division

with the level of talent they have?

 

Is this list heading into the 2012 season or 2013? Reyes is listed with Miami.

[Kyyle23]

Is this list heading into the 2012 season or 2013? Reyes is listed with Miami.

 

Not only him, Stephen Drew and Yunel Escobar also listed with past teams

[caulfield12]

Surely, it's heading into 2012.

 

So you could push him down at least 3-5 places in the rankings.

 

That said, right now....what players do we have in the Top Ten at their positions?

 

DeAza in CF is probably middle ten. Rios, for most of last year, but nobody would expect a repeat. AJ, offensively...for sure. Konerko, he can't be ranked in the top ten anymore. Viciedo was MLB average for LF in terms of OPS but there's a lot of room for improvement. Keppinger, maybe if you base it solely on 2012, but not on his last three years, as he's been more of a super-utility guy.

[Steve9347]

Where does Ozzie Smith rank on "The Shredder's" outdated list? Seriously, why am I supposed to care what this cheap thought about Alexei before last year?

[caulfield12]

Where does Ozzie Smith rank on "The Shredder's" outdated list? Seriously, why am I supposed to care what this cheap thought about Alexei before last year?

 

 

The same reason you would have cared before the 2012 season where Alex Rios was ranked....

 

Or after his bad/inconsistent 2004, where Paul Konerko was ranked coming into 2005, etc.

 

How can we suddenly say Alexei Ramirez is done when plenty of players like AJ, Konerko and Rios have rebounded when they were the same age or much

older?

 

If anything, Alexei is the opposite of the Carlos Lee/Ordonez/Fielder/Cabrera type of body that breaks down over age more quickly. And it's not like Ramirez has been stealing 50 bags a season, like a Pods....and he's hesistant about contact and diving usually, so his body hasn't taken as much of a pounding.

[southsider2k5]

The same reason you would have cared before the 2012 season where Alex Rios was ranked....

 

Or after his bad/inconsistent 2004, where Paul Konerko was ranked coming into 2005, etc.

 

How can we suddenly say Alexei Ramirez is done when plenty of players like AJ, Konerko and Rios have rebounded when they were the same age or much

older?

 

If anything, Alexei is the opposite of the Carlos Lee/Ordonez/Fielder/Cabrera type of body that breaks down over age more quickly. And it's not like Ramirez has been stealing 50 bags a season, like a Pods....and he's hesistant about contact and diving usually, so his body hasn't taken as much of a pounding.

 

We do seem to have a knack for players coming back from the dead.

[balfanman]

We do seem to have a knack for players coming back from the dead.

 

Is this a Jermaine Dye reference?

[Kyyle23]

What does Master Splinter think of 2013 shortstops