South Region

[Rex Hudler]

Crean >>>>>>>>>>> Smart. That's all you need to know.

 

 

Seriously though, great game from Michigan.

 

You're an idiot!

[WilliamTell]

Great game Michigan!

[ZoomSlowik]

It's not half truth at all. It's not a freakin's secret that VCU struggles on offense if they can't create it with their defense. It doesn't take rocket science or a stat sheet or watching 7k basketball games to understand the obvious. I'm not sure what their is to argue about that.

 

Because it is only part of the story. Yes, they get a lot of points off their defense. They're also one of the top offensive rebounding teams in the country and have numerous athletes that can get to the rim. Their DEFENSE relies on turnovers a lot more than their offense, it's not very good if you take care of the ball.

Edited March 23, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[Jenksismyhero]

You're an idiot!

 

Hey dick, it was a joke. Relax.

[Buehrle>Wood]

McGary is a good player, but has a long way to go. This game was built for him, assuming he didn't get flustered, which he hasn't. He's basically a junk player (and I do not mean that as a slam). He plays with energy, crashes the boards and picks up bunnies from those rebounds and dump offs from penetrating guards. This is a game made for that type of player.

Yeah this. The hype will be high on him after today but he still has little basketball skill. Still a very valuable piece but there was a reason his high school fall was so well documented once people figured out he was limited.

[Rex Hudler]

Because it's just wrong. Yes, they get a lot of points off their defense. They're also one of the top offensive rebounding teams in the country and have numerous athletes that can get to the rim. Their DEFENSE relies on turnovers a lot more than their offense, it's not very good if you take care of the ball.

 

If you rely heavily on offensive rebounding, it tells me you aren't a very good shooting team. And as I stated, when they playing a better team, they struggle offensively, I could give a crap less what stats they pile up while playing the Topeka YMCA. Watch the games. This isn't rocket science. VCU's whole game is predicated on their havoc defense and wearing other teams down. Steals, turnovers and tired defenders and yes offensive rebounding (which is helped when the other teams get worn down) is where they get their offense.

 

Sometimes their is a cause and effect to get a result. Looking at the results only without the others can cloud the truth, especially when the level of competition increases. To further my point, VCU scored 51 against Wichita State, 58 against Duke, 65 against Missouri, and 62 & 56 against St. Louis. They scored 78 against Memphis and 84 against Butler. If you watched the Butler game, they were very good offensively, but that fed off the fact they shredded Butler defensively and Butler didn't know which was was up. Butler couldn't score with them, feeding right into their style.

 

Doesn't look like they were that great offensively against the better teams on their schedule, does it?

[Rex Hudler]

Hey dick, it was a joke. Relax.

 

No, it was a jab at me in a conversation you weren't involved in. If you had any credibility, I'd take it with a grain of salt. Instead, it just shows you don't know what the f*ck you are talking about. Do me and everyone a favor and just ignore everything I post. You'll come off as a little smarter.

[Rex Hudler]

Because it is only part of the story. Yes, they get a lot of points off their defense. They're also one of the top offensive rebounding teams in the country and have numerous athletes that can get to the rim. Their DEFENSE relies on turnovers a lot more than their offense, it's not very good if you take care of the ball.

 

I should have been more simple in my response. If you rely on offensive rebounds (missed shots) and have athletes that can get to the rim, it is pretty easy to understand why they can struggle so easily on offense when playing against a team that can match that. Again, my whole argument from the beginning is what they can do or not do against better competition.

[ZoomSlowik]

If you rely heavily on offensive rebounding, it tells me you aren't a very good shooting team. And as I stated, when they playing a better team, they struggle offensively, I could give a crap less what stats they pile up while playing the Topeka YMCA. Watch the games. This isn't rocket science. VCU's whole game is predicated on their havoc defense and wearing other teams down. Steals, turnovers and tired defenders and yes offensive rebounding (which is helped when the other teams get worn down) is where they get their offense.

 

Sometimes their is a cause and effect to get a result. Looking at the results only without the others can cloud the truth, especially when the level of competition increases. To further my point, VCU scored 51 against Wichita State, 58 against Duke, 65 against Missouri, and 62 & 56 against St. Louis. They scored 78 against Memphis and 84 against Butler. If you watched the Butler game, they were very good offensively, but that fed off the fact they shredded Butler defensively and Butler didn't know which was was up. Butler couldn't score with them, feeding right into their style.

 

Doesn't look like they were that great offensively against the better teams on their schedule, does it?

 

You said when they can't force turnovers, they struggle to score. Now you're including offensive rebounding in that, which has little to do with their defense.

 

They only forced 13 turnovers against Missouri and still got 65. That's not a "bad" offensive game. They got 62 against St. Louis despite only forcing 8 turnovers and shot 45% from the floor. That's not a "bad" offensive game. Since you already conceeded the Butler and Memphis games, that's a pretty mixed bag against quality opponents.

 

Michigan won this game because they abused VCU's defense, not because they played stellar defense themselves.

[Soxbadger]

lol

 

That game was fun

[Jenksismyhero]

No, it was a jab at me in a conversation you weren't involved in. If you had any credibility, I'd take it with a grain of salt. Instead, it just shows you don't know what the f*ck you are talking about. Do me and everyone a favor and just ignore everything I post. You'll come off as a little smarter.

 

lol, you're right about this.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[ZoomSlowik]

I should have been more simple in my response. If you rely on offensive rebounds (missed shots) and have athletes that can get to the rim, it is pretty easy to understand why they can struggle so easily on offense when playing against a team that can match that. Again, my whole argument from the beginning is what they can do or not do against better competition.

 

Look at your first post again:

 

That's the problem with VCU. They aren't great offensively and don't consistently make shots. If you can score against their pressure and handle it, they won't keep up. They're style is to wear you down so you can't score. For them to win against more talented teams, they have to make you play ugly and wear you down so you can't score well. Michigan is too good offensively. This wasn't a good match up for VCU.

 

Your point wasn't that they struggle to score against good, athletic teams, your point was that they're not a good offensive team and can't keep up with teams if they break your presssure. That's very different from what you're arguing later.

 

The second part, fine. Obviously Michigan wasn't a good matchup because of their offensive ability. But they're not so offensively challenged that Michigan should win by 25 every time they play.

Edited March 23, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[Soxbadger]

If they try and run against Michigan they are going to get blown out more times than not. Now maybe some of those games are 10, 15, 20. But that was one of the easiest games to pick in the tournament.

 

[ZoomSlowik]

If they try and run against Michigan they are going to get blown out more times than not. Now maybe some of those games are 10, 15, 20. But that was one of the easiest games to pick in the tournament.

 

Meh. VCU had their chances to stem the tide during that first half run, they missed numerous makeable shots shots in the paint (albiet some of them weren't easy). They're also usually better from 3 (they average 8 made 3's a game at a 36% clip). Michigan got a ton of transition opportunities off their missed shots, taking the ball out of the net a few more times would have an impact. If they played 100 times, I could see a lot of 72-66 type games.

Edited March 23, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[Rex Hudler]

Meh. VCU had their chances to stem the tide during that first half run, they missed numerous makeable shots shots in the paint (albiet some of them weren't easy). They're also usually better from 3 (they average 8 made 3's a game at a 36% clip). Michigan got a ton of transition opportunities off their missed shots, taking the ball out of the net a few more times would have an impact. If they played 100 times, I could see a lot of 72-66 type games.

 

That's the problem with stat guys. They don't play 100 times, they played once and got their asses handed to them. Stats often don't reflect reality with a small sample size. Stats are also inflated or deflated by the level of competition.

 

I'm not trying to insult you, I just disagree with trying to prove points using #'s exclusively. Stats are very good and important, when used in context.

[ZoomSlowik]

That's the problem with stat guys. They don't play 100 times, they played once and got their asses handed to them. Stats often don't reflect reality with a small sample size. Stats are also inflated or deflated by the level of competition.

 

I'm not trying to insult you, I just disagree with trying to prove points using #'s exclusively. Stats are very good and important, when used in context.

 

No s***, but that one game doesn't necessarily mean the same thing would happen every time. Or do you think Florida Golf Coast would kick the s*** out of Georgetown if it were a 7-game series?

 

 

[Kyyle23]

ok ladies, bring it down a notch. Dont want to be handing out suspensions in the middle of the tournament. No more namecalling

[Soxbadger]

No s***, but that one game doesn't necessarily mean the same thing would happen every time. Or do you think Florida Golf Coast would kick the s*** out of Georgetown if it were a 7-game series?

 

No because Georgetown has superior talent and doesnt have a system that is prone to being beaten by better athletes.

 

VCU on the other hand has inferior talent to Michigan and runs a system that is supposed to take advantage of superior athleticism.

 

It would behoove VCU to learn how to play grind out games, so when they face a team like Michigan they can slow it down and frustrate them.

[Rex Hudler]

No s***, but that one game doesn't necessarily mean the same thing would happen every time. Or do you think Florida Golf Coast would kick the s*** out of Georgetown if it were a 7-game series?

 

I'll answer that when they start playing 7-game series in college basketball. I've just seen VCU enough times (2-3x last year, 3-4x this year) to see them struggle offensively against better teams, the teams that can score against them. They win because of their defense, not because they are great on offense.

[ZoomSlowik]

No because Georgetown has superior talent and doesnt have a system that is prone to being beaten by better athletes.

 

VCU on the other hand has inferior talent to Michigan and runs a system that is supposed to take advantage of superior athleticism.

 

It would behoove VCU to learn how to play grind out games, so when they face a team like Michigan they can slow it down and frustrate them.

 

I'm not in any way arguing that Florida Golf Coast would win a series against Georgetown, I just used that as an extreme example of drawing conclusions from one game. However, I do think Georgetown was overrated and that running the Princeton offense has it's pitfalls.

 

A grinding offense does seem to work better against Michigan, but plenty of less talented teams have put up big point totals against them. If you execute on offense and force just enough mistakes and/or catch off-games from some of their guys. you can beat them.

 

I don't think VCU is a better team than them or anything, just that if they play well, they can make a game of it. I don't think you can draw good conclusions from a few games here and there.

 

 

[caulfield12]

That was the least shocking of the 2/15 defeats in NCAA history.

 

With GU now losing four consecutive times to double digit seeds, it seems surprising now when they don't lose those games (ever since the Final 4 team).

[ZoomSlowik]

I'll answer that when they start playing 7-game series in college basketball. I've just seen VCU enough times (2-3x last year, 3-4x this year) to see them struggle offensively against better teams, the teams that can score against them. They win because of their defense, not because they are great on offense.

 

WOW, THREE GAMES! If you want to make that argument, Michigan must really suck. I've watched them about 10 times and I've seen them struggle to score against tough defensive teams like OSU and Wisconsin and lose to Penn State.

 

I guess we don't have any recent examples of a VCU team that's inferior to this one beating any quality teams either.

 

I know I'm sounding like an ass with this post, but I get annoyed when people say "you have to watch the games" and then admit that they're working with a really small sample size. I must never watch basketball at all just because I use stats to back up my argument.

Edited March 23, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[Rex Hudler]

WOW, THREE GAMES! If you want to make that argument, Michigan must really suck. I've watched them about 10 times and I've seen them struggle to score against tough defensive teams like OSU and Wisconsin and lose to Penn State.

 

I guess we don't have any recent examples of a VCU team that's inferior to this one beating any quality teams either.

 

I know I'm sounding like an ass with this post, but I get annoyed when people say "you have to watch the games" and then admit that they're working with a really small sample size.

 

If you know what you are looking at, it's not hard to see how a team plays in that many games. Does it tell you everything? No. But they played the same way last year so don't discount that. Simply put, whether you like my sample size or not, I was right. You can try and pick apart every little thing I typed, but the bottom line is VCU is not a great offensive team, especially against better teams that can score with them. If their defense doesn't set the pace, their offense is nothing to write home about. If they played half court defense, they wouldn't be good enough for any of us to talk about them.

[ZoomSlowik]

If you know what you are looking at, it's not hard to see how a team plays in that many games. Does it tell you everything? No. But they played the same way last year so don't discount that. Simply put, whether you like my sample size or not, I was right. You can try and pick apart every little thing I typed, but the bottom line is VCU is not a great offensive team, especially against better teams that can score with them. If their defense doesn't set the pace, their offense is nothing to write home about. If they played half court defense, they wouldn't be good enough for any of us to talk about them.

 

They played about the same way when they went to the Final Four too, and that was a much weaker team.

[IlliniKrush]

Since Jay Bilas had VCU as a Final Four pick, I don't think it was terribly obvious that Michigan would beat VCU, and he watches a lot of basketball.