The Ultimate Champion Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Per MLBTR post, and a link this time http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/03/cafa...en-dodgers.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Oh and yes I know BattleAxe is our guy to start the year but he doesn't count really, that experiment obviously isn't going to work. Santiago should be the guy if Danks misses good time. I'm not excited to see him in the bullpen anyway, seems a little bit of a waste and a low reward scenario overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I'll never understand why they didn't go into ST thinking that Santiago was going to be a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 24, 2013 -> 09:01 PM) I'll never understand why they didn't go into ST thinking that Santiago was going to be a starter. Because Ventura wasn't listening to the experts at SoxTalk who've more correctly diagnosed Danks?? This is just idiotic, since none of those guys would pitch better than Santiago in the AL, and none of them would be part of the long-term solution, either. I'm not expecting to see Mitchell or Walker traded for some journeyman veteran who will soak up additional resources and hurt our future as well. Edited March 25, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilihead Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I'd rather roll with Santiago/Axelrod/Castro as the #5 starter than give up anything of value for another starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I want Lilly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 QUOTE (Reddy @ Mar 24, 2013 -> 10:33 PM) I want Lilly. An old fly ball pitcher at the Cell? That could get ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 24, 2013 -> 10:01 PM) I'll never understand why they didn't go into ST thinking that Santiago was going to be a starter. Santiago went into ST thinking he was a starter. He told the guys on the Score that he was stretched out to 75 pitches before reporting to camp and "I'm not doing that to be a closer." Somewhere along the lines the plans changed. It doesn't make sense since it isn't a big deal to prepare a guy for a starting regimen and send him to a pen whereas doing the inverse is very difficult to do. He is by far our most MLB ready starter...I don't mind Axe, but he is just not a long-term option and Hector looks like he really could be. In general, Hector is a waste in the bullpen. It maximizes his weaknesses and minimizes his strengths. If they are certain John will be ready after a week or two, this isn't a big deal. If you might end up needing two months of a Danks replacement, you've f***ed up and getting Ted Lilly won't fix it. FWIW, I think this is bogus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilihead Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Santiago went into ST thinking he was a starter. He told the guys on the Score that he was stretched out to 75 pitches before reporting to camp and "I'm not doing that to be a closer." Somewhere along the lines the plans changed. It doesn't make sense since it isn't a big deal to prepare a guy for a starting regimen and send him to a pen whereas doing the inverse is very difficult to do. He is by far our most MLB ready starter...I don't mind Axe, but he is just not a long-term option and Hector looks like he really could be. In general, Hector is a waste in the bullpen. It maximizes his weaknesses and minimizes his strengths. If they are certain John will be ready after a week or two, this isn't a big deal. If you might end up needing two months of a Danks replacement, you've f***ed up and getting Ted Lilly won't fix it. FWIW, I think this is bogus. I can't remember the reason why, or where I heard this, but I heard something that Hector's screwball is a lot more effective when he in a starters role. Maybe it's because he can pepper it in more often in a start when he needs it every 3rd or 4th batter, rather than just *wanting* to use it in his 1-2 innings of relief because he may only get to see 3-6 hitters. I don't even know if that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Mar 25, 2013 -> 01:01 AM) I can't remember the reason why, or where I heard this, but I heard something that Hector's screwball is a lot more effective when he in a starters role. Maybe it's because he can pepper it in more often in a start when he needs it every 3rd or 4th batter, rather than just *wanting* to use it in his 1-2 innings of relief because he may only get to see 3-6 hitters. I don't even know if that makes sense. You're absolutely right. This is something that I always thought last year and he has confirmed this in interviews. It is generally true with pitchers, it is hard to use much of your repertoire in the span of a few batters. Hector's strength is not just his screwball but the vastness of his repertoire, but that's minimized out of the pen. He doesn't have a single great offspeed pitch, but each one is passable. As a reliever, he has to make himself basically a two pitch pitcher with only one great pitch. As a starter, he's a 4-5 pitch pitcher and you never know what's coming. He has said the screwball in particular can take an inning or so to start getting over the plate and coming out of the bullpen deterred him from using it since strikes are at such a premium coming out of the pen. No opportunity to waste a few pitches or a batter feeling for your offspeed pitch. As far as the Sox go, we don't need Hector in the bullpen either. A third lefty? He's not even that great at getting lefties out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Internal discussions doesn't mean they are pursuing these guys or even that they have any interest. They probably have internal discussions about hundreds of players in other organizations. I wouldn't get too excited or mad about this report. It most likely means nothing, and for the Santiago fans, maybe the "internal discussion" concluded with what they have is better than what they could get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 24, 2013 -> 10:01 PM) I'll never understand why they didn't go into ST thinking that Santiago was going to be a starter. Because Danks was throwing painfree prior to Spring training and was on the same schedule as everyone else. There was no reason to think that he wouldn't be ready. Unfortunately, his fastball hasn't returned as quickly as they would have liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I think I'd rather see Lilli than Lilly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 As a Dodgers fan that follows that team as closely as I follow the Sox..... none of those 3 are any better than what the Sox already have. I hope the convo goes a little something like this: Hahn: Hey, uh, so as you know one of our guys is down and we might need an extra starter. Colletti: Yea, I heard. That's tough, man. Hahn: Yea, so you wanna give me one of your starting pitchers for free? Seriously, I'm not giving you anything back and you can pay the pitcher's entire contract. Colletti: Well.... Hahn: Dude, seriously none of those three guys have any real surplus value on the trade market. Colletti: But... Hahn: When you signed Harang and Capuano last year, everyone was dumbfounded as to why you'd sign them for more than one year. Colletti: Ok. Take your pick. On a serious not, since I am terrible at rhetoical fake GM trade conversations... Lilly has had trouble staying healthy and there is no sure bet he'd make more than 10-15 starts. Harang isn't very good and since he left the Reds, has benfitted greatly from pitching in the large NL West parks. Capuano is all smoke and mirrors and was pretty bad the second half last year and on the road. Unless the Dodgers are literally giving the Sox a free starting pitcher for nothing in return AND paying their salary, I'ld take my chances with Alexrod or Santiago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Capuano's actually interesting, the other guys not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I dont see any truth in this. If anything we have almost too many starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I can't see it unless Danks is really hurt. I'm not talking about achy, I am talking about really injured to where he is going to miss significant time. It doesn't make any sense otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 25, 2013 -> 12:41 PM) I can't see it unless Danks is really hurt. I'm not talking about achy, I am talking about really injured to where he is going to miss significant time. It doesn't make any sense otherwise. I'd still rather have Santiago/Castro or even Axe get more starts if that's the case over a trade for any of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Danks DL is a certainty based on his velocity and who knows for how long. Hector has been getting lit-up in ST and clearly not a great option based on the looks of it .... Old school 4 man rotation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 QUOTE (La Marr Hoyt HOF @ Mar 25, 2013 -> 10:37 PM) Danks DL is a certainty based on his velocity and who knows for how long. Hector has been getting lit-up in ST and clearly not a great option based on the looks of it .... Old school 4 man rotation! Santiago looked sensational in the game that was televised on Friday night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 QUOTE (La Marr Hoyt HOF @ Mar 25, 2013 -> 03:37 PM) Danks DL is a certainty based on his velocity and who knows for how long. Hector has been getting lit-up in ST and clearly not a great option based on the looks of it .... Old school 4 man rotation! Depends if he was just working on secondary pitches or whatever. When he's on, he can be electric. The coaching staff understands him better than we do. Last year, he was trying to prove himself and focusing more on getting outs, versus using his full repertoire of pitches. But yeah, he was dominant in 3 innings Friday. Of course, it was at the very end of the game when mostly minor leaguers were playing, so also take THAT performance with a grain of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 as an avid fantasy baseball-er, there's no one i liked more at the end of drafts than Ted Lilly. gimme that WHIP any day of the week. I could get behind Cap too. Harang has never been good - even in Petco... that's telling you something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 QUOTE (Reddy @ Mar 25, 2013 -> 08:20 PM) as an avid fantasy baseball-er, there's no one i liked more at the end of drafts than Ted Lilly. gimme that WHIP any day of the week. I could get behind Cap too. Harang has never been good - even in Petco... that's telling you something I actually feel the complete opposite of all of this. Both Lilly and Capuano are soft-tossing lefties who I think would get lit up in the AL, while Harang actually has a bit of velocity left (about 88-91). On top of that, Harang has put up a 3.60 ERA and 170 innings the last 2 seasons. Of course, I'd rather have none of them than give up anything for them too. The Sox have enough starting pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 Theodore Roosevelt Lilly has a 4.52 ERA & 1.37 WHIP in his 7 years (912IP) in the AL. His fastball has always been pretty non-electric but the change and curve make it effective. Harang is garbage, rich man's Adam Russell IMO. Capuano is a decent 5th starter option too. I just don't see why the Sox would *not* want to put Santiago out there, in fact I don't know why they even went with Axelrod. It's a brutally easy decision to make and yet they're f***ing it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 25, 2013 -> 01:52 PM) I dont see any truth in this. If anything we have almost too many starters. We have 6, and with Danks hurt we now have 5. Nobody else counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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