Should Verlander's new megacontract affect Sox thinking?

[caulfield12]

And when he (Verlander) showed up at Comerica Park and saw those statues out there in left-center field, you'd better believe he was thinking that he wanted to prove he deserved one of them himself.

 

He'll get one now. He's committed to the Tigers now through his age-36 season, which gives him seven more years to add to a legacy that already includes 124 wins (you bet he'd like to take a shot at 300), six straight 200-inning seasons (probably would have been seven if the Tigers had allowed him to do it as a rookie), three strikeout crowns in the last four years and first- and second-place finishes in the Cy Young voting the last two years.

 

On the way to all that, he has thrown a ton of pitches, 1,000 more than any other pitcher in the game over the last six years (and that doesn't even include the postseason).

 

Some would say that all those pitches will take a toll, that all those pitches are one more reason why he won't make it to the end of this contract as an elite pitcher, a reason that the Tigers shouldn't have signed him for this long or that other teams should actually be happy that they won't be able to bid for Verlander on the free-agent market.

 

The problem with that theory is that Verlander has already proven he can do things other guys can't. Who's to say that can't continue?

 

Besides, there's no doubting that, right now, having Verlander atop the Tigers' rotation makes them one of the elite teams in baseball, perhaps even the best. There's every reason to believe that will still be true two years from now.

 

The Tigers had a choice. They could pay up by Verlander's opening day deadline, or they could take a major risk that, after 2014, Verlander would be pitching (and winning) for somebody else.

 

They couldn't sign Verlander to a shorter contract. Believe me, if they could have, they would have.

 

Verlander had a choice, too. He could play it out and see if he could get even more, or he could sign now and commit to the Tigers.

 

He could hope for more money, or he could go for a statue.

 

The statue won out.

 

 

 

Danny Knobler, cbssports.com

 

 

[kev211]

7 years to a power pitcher? Lol

[Jake]

The way I see it is this -- they were always going to keep him. He's never going to cost more than this, this is his peak value. He very well could have hurt himself before the end of the current contract though and remained on the Tigs for a far lower price. So in my mind, even if Justin remains just as good, they are paying as much as fathomably possible to have him do that. They have also vastly increased the chance that this is a tremendous waste of money, even if that chance isn't tremendously high.

[caulfield12]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/justin-verlan...-203513113.html

 

Jeff Passan in favor of the move.

[ScottyDo]

This poll is confusing. Nothing has changed for 2013. Seems like a Diamond League post to me

[ScottyDo]

But, more helpfully, the counter move is to have already signed Chris Sale to long-term team friendly contract

[caulfield12]

It's pretty simple.

 

Verlander and Miguel Cabrera are the two most important players in the AL Central, maybe the entire AL, right now.

 

Knowing that Verlander's going to be around not just 2013 and 2014 but well into the future...could change the organizational thinking of the White Sox.

 

The odds are diminished of both the White Sox beating the Tigers head-to-head or taking a Wild Card spot (look at the AL East, Angels/A's/Rangers/Mariners, the continued improvement of the AL Central with the Royals and Twins now turning the corner on a youth movement)...that would be one conclusion.

 

The White Sox are in a very tough spot. They're probably not good enough right now to win the division unless everything goes perfectly right, and that's adding some pieces at midseason (like we did with Liriano, Youk and Myers).

 

It doesn't mean that it's ALL doom and gloom...but I just can't imagine Axelrod being part of our long-term future...we really need to push the envelope with guys such as Santiago and Trayce Thompson/Hawkins that have the highest upside, instead of taking that unsatisfying middle road of being competitive but not quite good enough.

 

Yet we can't begin to think about tearing down the team in any significant way until halfway through the season. I think looking at the schedule, a lot of Sox fans are thinking about a 2007/09/10/11 start to the season and how realistic being a comeback team in the 2nd half would be, based on team history and the ages of players like Konerko, Dunn, Rios, Peavy, Keppinger, Ramirez, etc.

 

 

[caulfield12]

It's pretty simple.

 

Verlander and Miguel Cabrera are the two most important players in the AL Central, maybe the entire AL, right now.

 

Knowing that Verlander's going to be around not just 2013 and 2014 but well into the future...could change the organizational thinking of the White Sox.

 

The odds are diminished of both the White Sox beating the Tigers head-to-head or taking a Wild Card spot (look at the AL East, Angels/A's/Rangers/Mariners, the continued improvement of the AL Central with the Royals and Twins now turning the corner on a youth movement)...that would be one conclusion.

 

The White Sox are in a very tough spot. They're probably not good enough right now to win the division unless everything goes perfectly right, and that's adding some pieces at midseason (like we did with Liriano, Youk and Myers).

 

It doesn't mean that it's ALL doom and gloom...but I just can't imagine Axelrod being part of our long-term future...we really need to push the envelope with guys such as Santiago and Trayce Thompson/Hawkins that have the highest upside, instead of taking that unsatisfying middle road of being competitive but not quite good enough.

 

Yet we can't begin to think about tearing down the team in any significant way until halfway through the season. I think looking at the schedule, a lot of Sox fans are thinking about a 2007/09/10/11 start to the season and how realistic being a comeback team in the 2nd half would be, based on team history and the ages of veteran players like Konerko, Dunn, Rios, Peavy, Keppinger, Ramirez, etc.

Edited March 30, 2013 by caulfield12

[ScottyDo]

Well, I can tell you that it's not all cheers and cartwheels in southeast Michigan right now. Having grown up in Ann Arbor, most of my friends are Tigers fans. They're mostly excited about Verlander's legacy, and they're pretty happy that the window remains open from 2013-2015, but from 2016 on they will have over $50MM per year committed to Verlander and Fielder alone, which worries even Tigers fans. There is a massive, massive possibility -- one might even call it a probability -- that they will end up regretting one or both of these signings down the road. I don't know that it changes my approach much if I'm the Sox, as Verlander was already under control beyond this year anyway. The landscape hasn't changed all that much, in my view.

 

Remember when Johan Santana was a lock to be the best pitcher in history (he said, hyperbolically)? Yeaaaah....imagine him signing this deal a few years back. There's a very real possibility that the Tigers will rue this day, so why panic if you're Hahn? Do what you were going to do to make a solid competitor.

[ScottyDo]

Also, not sure the Axelrod thing has much to do with this. Wringing hands over who functions as our spot starter is not exactly "pushing the envelope". Even the best possible decision with perfect information will probably be inconsequential in the long run. That said, I don't get the decision to start Axe over Santiago either.

[caulfield12]

If we tried to trade Dylan Axelrod today, he would fetch the same in return as Lucas Harrell or Phil Humber.

 

We have three or four distinct advantages with our organization right now, maybe 4.

 

1) Cuban connection...but we didn't go after Puig or Soler

2) Minor/major league outfield depth....DeAza/Viciedo/Mitchell/Walker/Thompson/Hawkins

3) Starting pitching goes 6-7 deep, especially if Danks is 100%, plus 3-4 minor leaguers behind them (Castro, Molina, Rienzo, Johnson)

4) Bullpen/bullpen depth (Septimo, Veal, Santiago, Omogrosso, etc.)

5) I'll add one more....the chance to have a fresh start and get rid of Williams, JR., Silverio, etc. But still, Buddy Bell is the constant.

 

Somehow, one of those four areas has to be leveraged to our benefit soon in order to become more competitive.

Edited March 30, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

I'm confused. Did someone think Verlander was going somewhere?

[Harry Chappas]

How are the Phillies digging the halladay contract.

[flavum]

How are the Phillies digging the halladay contract.

 

It hasn't really been bad for them, and it wasn't a mega-year deal.

 

As for Verlander, it'll basically make him a Tiger for life. Good for them. Hopefully we'll have the same thing in Chris Sale.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I sense that overall the Sox thinking is to acquire as much talent as possible in the most cost-efficient manner possible, and to put the best possible team on the field each and every season while still building for the future.

 

That's so wrong. It is always foolish to concern yourself with your own matters, especially when others around you are doing more interesting things. f*** the hamburger in front of me, I'd rather go hungry watching that guy eat his steak. Why? Because he's better than me. IMO the proper approach for Sox brass should be to hold an emergency meeting every time a division rival acquires, promotes or extends a good MLB player or prospect and at that point decide whether it's best to play any games at all or instead to shift the focus to monster truck rallies. And right now, after the Verlander deal, all I can hear in my head is Gene Honda shouting "Sunday! Sunday! Sunday!" because we're totally f***ed and the sky is black and holy s*** we're doomed and Jerry needs to sell among other things.

[The Ultimate Champion]

That Posey contract BTW is absolutely horrible. That's a lot of future money to a catcher.

[ScottyDo]

I sense that overall the Sox thinking is to acquire as much talent as possible in the most cost-efficient manner possible, and to put the best possible team on the field each and every season while still building for the future.

 

That's so wrong. It is always foolish to concern yourself with your own matters, especially when others around you are doing more interesting things. f*** the hamburger in front of me, I'd rather go hungry watching that guy eat his steak. Why? Because he's better than me. IMO the proper approach for Sox brass should be to hold an emergency meeting every time a division rival acquires, promotes or extends a good MLB player or prospect and at that point decide whether it's best to play any games at all or instead to shift the focus to monster truck rallies. And right now, after the Verlander deal, all I can hear in my head is Gene Honda shouting "Sunday! Sunday! Sunday!" because we're totally f***ed and the sky is black and holy s*** we're doomed and Jerry needs to sell among other things.

This!

[caulfield12]

I sense that overall the Sox thinking is to acquire as much talent as possible in the most cost-efficient manner possible, and to put the best possible team on the field each and every season while still building for the future.

 

That's so wrong. It is always foolish to concern yourself with your own matters, especially when others around you are doing more interesting things. f*** the hamburger in front of me, I'd rather go hungry watching that guy eat his steak. Why? Because he's better than me. IMO the proper approach for Sox brass should be to hold an emergency meeting every time a division rival acquires, promotes or extends a good MLB player or prospect and at that point decide whether it's best to play any games at all or instead to shift the focus to monster truck rallies. And right now, after the Verlander deal, all I can hear in my head is Gene Honda shouting "Sunday! Sunday! Sunday!" because we're totally f***ed and the sky is black and holy s*** we're doomed and Jerry needs to sell among other things.

 

I don't remember saying anything about selling the team.

[elrockinMT]

There isn't any voting choice about "so what". I am not arguing that Verlander is probably the premier right handed pitcher in at least the AL, if not baseball, but I am not sure of spending this kind of money for that number of years is good business. Of course it is if Detroit wins it all every year

[joeynach]

Yeah the sox should get out of the CSN Chicago deal as soon as they can and pursue a new TV rights deal that will influx the organization with hunreds of millions in revenue so they too can go off the deep end with player contracts and free agents. Adapt or die.

[Balta1701]

Yeah the sox should get out of the CSN Chicago deal as soon as they can and pursue a new TV rights deal that will influx the organization with hunreds of millions in revenue so they too can go off the deep end with player contracts and free agents. Adapt or die.

2019.

[caulfield12]

Umm....they already own 40% of ComCast.

[max power]

Umm....they already own 40% of ComCast.

I thought 20% of it can be attributed to the white sox? The other 20% is for the bulls no? Different ownership groups. Different teams. Different payrolls.

[GreatScott82]

As long as JR is still around, the White Sox will never sign a stud pitcher to a 6-7 year deal. I was honestly shocked they gave Danks a 5 year deal.... (And i'm sure he is upset with himself by doing so if you look at Danks current health status).

 

I don't blame JRs current mindset of not typically going beyond 4 years for a pitcher. The wear and tear risk is just too big. Hopefully we can continue to develop young starters so we can disperse the money elsewhere on the roster. I really hope Quintana can develop into a gem and the organization can develop one more youngster into a quality starter. (Santiago, Snodgress, Rienzo, Molina, Castro etc...)

 

 

[caulfield12]

As long as JR is still around, the White Sox will never sign a stud pitcher to a 6-7 year deal. I was honestly shocked they gave Danks a 5 year deal.... (And i'm sure he is upset with himself by doing so if you look at Danks current health status).

 

I don't blame JRs current mindset of not typically going beyond 4 years for a pitcher. The wear and tear risk is just too big. Hopefully we can continue to develop young starters so we can disperse the money elsewhere on the roster. I really hope Quintana can develop into a gem and the organization can develop one more youngster into a quality starter. (Santiago, Snodgress, Rienzo, Molina, Castro etc...)

 

True enough.

 

You have to have enough of those "young veterans" on 2-3-4 year deals, though, to maintain your future cost predictability.

 

One of the biggest complaints about that 2005-2008 era of White Sox baseball was having so much money tied up into the starting rotation with Garcia, Buehrle, Contreras, Javy and Garland, who had a $29 million/3 year contract from 2006-2008.

 

When your so-called fifth starter is making almost $10 million per season, and this is well before the huge media deals and the Dodgers going nuts spending-wise, you know there is a strategic imbalance in your payroll.

 

That's why we've been very very lucky with Quintana's rise and all those bullpen guys, not to mention Santiago, who almost literally came out of nowhere as well between his high school background and emergence in winter ball from obscurity.