White Sox v Indians 4/12/13

[Soxfest]

#4(*&@^ This team frustrates the piss out of me. No reason what so ever to lose 1-0 to this s***ty Cleveland team. Can't execute any damn fundamentals, can't bunt, can't hit with RISP, managerial abomination, #@%%@#%$

They keep playing and Robin managing like this they will not see over .500 again this year.

[caulfield12]

DJ and Farmer don't even seem upset or surprised about this loss. Maybe some of the callers to the post-game show will be upset...if they can round up any fans that still care at this point.

 

Masterson 3-0. 0.69 ERA.

[Baron]

Most boring team since 2007, and it's not even close. This is what happens when you can't make up your mind whether or not to rebuild or go for it.

 

Tell you what. The day this team goes into full rebuild mode where we wont win for a long period of time is the time I stop giving a **** completely.

[caulfield12]

Didn't ANYONE tell Crain that Swisher's a NOTORIOUS first-pitch swinger????????????????

[fathom]

So what exactly is the plan going to be this season when the Sox have to face tough righties like Verlander, Scherzer, Masterson, etc? Ventura going to continue to trot out Viciedo in LF, Flowers/Gimenez at C and Keppinger at 2nd or 3rd? What a poorly constructed roster/lineup.

[DirtySox]

This is what happens when you can't make up your mind whether or not to rebuild or go for it.

 

Pretty much.

[Soxfest]

Oh you can smell the total rebuild posts coming soon.

Rebuild or no rebuild it is becoming clear Robin is not the guy to lead them. I have lost all faith in him.

[Baron]

So what exactly is the plan going to be this season when the Sox have to face tough righties like Verlander, Scherzer, Masterson, etc? Ventura going to continue to trot out Viciedo in LF, Flowers/Gimenez at C and Keppinger at 2nd or 3rd? What a poorly constructed roster/lineup.

 

 

I was never a fan of our catcher situation. Its really no surprise that Flowers has issues at the plate. But according to some people on here that wasnt important.

[caulfield12]

Oh you can smell the total rebuild posts coming soon.

 

 

Rebuild from/with what? They don't have anyone to trade...

 

Fathom's point stands. They got away with it in 2008 because they hit with Danks, Floyd, Alexei and Quentin. From that point on, Beckham has been a bust (mostly) and there's just not been enough of an injection of talent.

 

There's been a Santos here or a Quintana there, but those are just band-aids covering up the endemic problem.

 

At some point, the lack of talent in this organization was going to be exposed...

[Baron]

Rebuild from/with what? They don't have anyone to trade...

 

Fathom's point stands. They got away with it in 2008 because they hit with Danks, Floyd, Alexei and Quentin. From that point on, Beckham has been a bust (mostly) and there's just not been enough of an injection of talent.

 

There's been a Santos here or a Quintana there, but those are just band-aids covering up the endemic problem.

 

At some point, the lack of talent in this organization was going to be exposed...

 

I dont disagree with any of that

[flavum]

Can we just retract the Sox and Cubs, and bring the Rays to Chicago?

 

Solve a lot of problems.

[caulfield12]

Rebuild or no rebuild it is becoming clear Robin is not the guy to lead them. I have lost all faith in him.

 

 

Leaving in starting pitchers too long.

 

Lack of knowledge about his own roster (Alexei sac bunting tonight when he simply fails 75-85% of the time in that situation).

 

Horrible fundamentals and simple mistakes, some mental, some physical. The team either looks poorly prepared to play or simply lacking in talent across the board (offensively) or both.

 

Everything he has done since August last year has made Ozzie Guillen look quite good again (the 2004-2008 Ozzie).

 

No clue what to do with Hector Santiago. No clue that trotting out Axelrod to get ripped is going to make late season match-ups with DET pointless.

Edited April 13, 2013 by caulfield12

[fathom]

If the Sox tank the rest of the way, they can draft Carlos Rondon and go for the all LHP starting rotation in 3 years of Sale, Danks, Quintana, Santiago, Rondon!!

[justBLAZE]

I already want to give up my tickets for Friday. I'm sorry but there is nothing fun about this team. So frustrated right now.

[caulfield12]

Can we just retract the Sox and Cubs, and bring the Rays to Chicago?

 

Solve a lot of problems.

 

At least the Cubs rallied after they blew the save today, lol.

[jhonnydanks]

Step away. Drink a beer. Get 'em tomorrow. The sky is not falling. Quite the collection of fatalists we have here.

[Baron]

Step away. Drink a beer. Get 'em tomorrow. The sky is not falling. Quite the collection of fatalists we have here.

 

Good post

[The Ultimate Champion]

Good God you f***in people are craaaay

 

First, Robin is a player's manager. Rios has had his head in the game ever since Robin got here. This is why you keep Robin.

 

Secondly, we don't exactly have a world of talent here to begin with. I try to be as optimistic as anyone once the games are underway but coming out of ST it was pretty clear that as an organization we were middle of the pack at best and would need players to take steps and/or need to make outside additions to be a division champ. We're 10 games into the season and are 4-6, and most of our losses are games we could have won. None of this should be surprising, we're pretty much acting like a middle of the pack club.

 

Third, there are potential positives all over the place. Gillaspie is one, Santiago about to "take" the fifth starter role is another (actually he may be about to "take" John Danks' spot in the long-term picture, as we can handle 4 lefties for a couple months after Floyd is traded), and the absolute BEST thing about Tyler Flowers isn't the power or walks, it is the fact that he has had to fail, learn, and rebound/overcome his entire career, ever since the steroid bust in Atlanta's system. Tyler has had to learn how to catch, how to hit a fastball, etc. and he has worked his way into this spot. He may still be a good player since he kind of has been an overachiever, and just like I've said since the getgo, all you people expecting an improvement over AJ are grossly underrating the job AJ did here just as much as always. Catching is difficult. Overall, the Sox need to see what they have at multiple positions and right now they are doing that. The season is 10 games old for f***s sake, there may be light at the end of the tunnel re: long-term talent on the ballclub.

 

Fourthly, as I said initally, yall are craaaay. Stop being so craaay. It's annoying. 10 GAMES!!! ITS 10 GAMES!!!!!!!

[fathom]

Good God you f***in people are craaaay

 

First, Robin is a player's manager. Rios has had his head in the game ever since Robin got here. This is why you keep Robin.

 

Secondly, we don't exactly have a world of talent here to begin with. I try to be as optimistic as anyone once the games are underway but coming out of ST it was pretty clear that as an organization we were middle of the pack at best and would need players to take steps and/or need to make outside additions to be a division champ. We're 10 games into the season and are 4-6, and most of our losses are games we could have won. None of this should be surprising, we're pretty much acting like a middle of the pack club.

 

Third, there are potential positives all over the place. Gillaspie is one, Santiago about to "take" the fifth starter role is another (actually he may be about to "take" John Danks' spot in the long-term picture, as we can handle 4 lefties for a couple months after Floyd is traded), and the absolute BEST thing about Tyler Flowers isn't the power or walks, it is the fact that he has had to fail, learn, and rebound/overcome his entire career, ever since the steroid bust in Atlanta's system. Tyler has had to learn how to catch, how to hit a fastball, etc. and he has worked his way into this spot. He may still be a good player since he kind of has been an overachiever, and just like I've said since the getgo, all you people expecting an improvement over AJ are grossly underrating the job AJ did here just as much as always. Catching is difficult. Overall, the Sox need to see what they have at multiple positions and right now they are doing that. The season is 10 games old for f***s sake, there may be light at the end of the tunnel re: long-term talent on the ballclub.

 

Fourthly, as I said initally, yall are craaaay. Stop being so craaay. It's annoying. 10 GAMES!!! ITS 10 GAMES!!!!!!!

 

Good post, but I think Manto deserves a ton of credit for getting Rios into a comfortable stance and making him stick to it.

 

[Harry Chappas]

Robin having a rough go of it early on.

 

[Baron]

Cant agree more with that post

[caulfield12]

Good God you f***in people are craaaay

 

First, Robin is a player's manager. Rios has had his head in the game ever since Robin got here. This is why you keep Robin.

 

Secondly, we don't exactly have a world of talent here to begin with. I try to be as optimistic as anyone once the games are underway but coming out of ST it was pretty clear that as an organization we were middle of the pack at best and would need players to take steps and/or need to make outside additions to be a division champ. We're 10 games into the season and are 4-6, and most of our losses are games we could have won. None of this should be surprising, we're pretty much acting like a middle of the pack club.

 

Third, there are potential positives all over the place. Gillaspie is one, Santiago about to "take" the fifth starter role is another (actually he may be about to "take" John Danks' spot in the long-term picture, as we can handle 4 lefties for a couple months after Floyd is traded), and the absolute BEST thing about Tyler Flowers isn't the power or walks, it is the fact that he has had to fail, learn, and rebound/overcome his entire career, ever since the steroid bust in Atlanta's system. Tyler has had to learn how to catch, how to hit a fastball, etc. and he has worked his way into this spot. He may still be a good player since he kind of has been an overachiever, and just like I've said since the getgo, all you people expecting an improvement over AJ are grossly underrating the job AJ did here just as much as always. Catching is difficult. Overall, the Sox need to see what they have at multiple positions and right now they are doing that. The season is 10 games old for f***s sake, there may be light at the end of the tunnel re: long-term talent on the ballclub.

 

Fourthly, as I said initally, yall are craaaay. Stop being so craaay. It's annoying. 10 GAMES!!! ITS 10 GAMES!!!!!!!

 

Gillaspie still has to hit for power to be a regular. We'll see.

 

Santiago, I've been advocating that since Day 1.

 

Flowers, no idea...not encouraged particularly, we've always known he'll be an all or nothing hitter, along with Dunn and Viciedo....the biggest concern right now, besides hitting with RISP, is the OBP (for the entire team and organizational focus, for that matter).

 

As far as the point about Rios...it's hard to say how much of it is simply Ozzie being gone, how much is Ventura, how much is Manto, how much is the position switch back to RF. In the end, Rios isn't part of the long-term/big board plan, either.

 

You're never going to see me saying "Gee, Ventura's done a great job" simply because he's not Ozzie and the team was due to respond to ANYONE who wasn't Ozzie in the first half of 2012. What he have seen out of Ventura in terms of in-game management/strategy/tactics/decision-making has been perhaps the most discouraging factor of all....looking at the results in August, September and now April again.

 

Luckily, it's easier to change managers than on-field personnel.

Ventura won't be fired, but you can easily see him walking away if the team struggles again this season.

Edited April 13, 2013 by caulfield12

[The Ultimate Champion]

Gillaspie still has to hit for power to be a regular. We'll see.

 

Santiago, I've been advocating that since Day 1.

 

Flowers, no idea...not encouraged particularly, we've always known he'll be an all or nothing hitter, along with Dunn and Viciedo....the biggest concern right now, besides hitting with RISP, is the OBP (for the entire team and organizational focus, for that matter).

 

As far as the point about Rios...it's hard to say how much of it is simply Ozzie being gone, how much is Ventura, how much is Manto, how much is the position switch back to RF. In the end, Rios isn't part of the long-term/big board plan, either.

 

You're never going to see me saying "Gee, Ventura's done a great job" simply because he's not Ozzie and the team was due to respond to ANYONE who wasn't Ozzie in the first half of 2012. What he have seen out of Ventura in terms of in-game management/strategy/tactics/decision-making has been perhaps the most discouraging factor of all....looking at the results in August, September and now April again.

 

Luckily, it's easier to change managers than on-field personnel.

Ventura won't be fired, but you can easily see him walking away if the team struggles again this season.

Rios has the skillset to be a part of the long-term (next 3-4 years) plan. His contract would need to be re-worked, but if Alex can go 2+ seasons in a row without taking a month off mentally, then you can think about that. It's too early though, Alex's head has been in the game for 1 year plus half a month.

 

The team OBP isn't a concern when you are factoring in Dunn, who is a prime candidate for a Linebrink-style exit after the season, and other players like Flowers & Viciedo who won't be on the next great Sox team without picking their games up.

 

The Sox are seeing what they have. You are craaay caulfield, I mean really, what are you looking for out of Robin? He's not a game manager, he's a player's manager. We aren't good enough yet where we need both. Last year's Robin could do what exactly? His team didn't hit the baseball and eventually some of his starters ran out of gas. Robin took that dogs*** 2011 squad, subtracted a bunch of talent, and came up with a much better team. And this year at least we've been in the games. s*** pickles, tonight I thought was a good performance: Rios keeping the hit streak alive, Gillaspie with another hit, excellent start by Quintana. If Veal had made an appearance and found a way to throw the damn ball over the plate I'd have been thrilled. You craaay.

 

[greg775]

this offense is so fundamentally flawed it makes you wonder what we teach guys in the minor leagues, just awful and people don't want to see an all or nothing baseball team

I was telling a guy tonight that we should bunt all the time in spring training just in case it might spill over in a game that might actually count. The vision of Lexi trying to bunt there will haunt me the next 24 hours. My god.

 

So what exactly is the plan going to be this season when the Sox have to face tough righties like Verlander, Scherzer, Masterson, etc? Ventura going to continue to trot out Viciedo in LF, Flowers/Gimenez at C and Keppinger at 2nd or 3rd? What a poorly constructed roster/lineup.

Fathom is on fire in this thread with some great posts.

 

Is there any way this team can step it up defensively and our pitching can dominate and we win with pitching and defense? I can't see this team scoring more than 3-4 runs on the road very often.

[The Ginger Kid]

Put this one in the ROBIN VENTURA hasn't improved a lick as a manager body of evidence.

 

 

Absolutely awful start to the season for Ventura, as he and the team have picked up where they left off last season.

 

 

Rebuild or no rebuild it is becoming clear Robin is not the guy to lead them. I have lost all faith in him.

 

Sucks to lose. Sucks worse to fire a sawed off shotgun at everything that moves, especially the guy making out the lineup card.

 

Q pitched great. This team is built around pitching. Hitting will come around. 10 games in and we're a little under .500 after facing a red hot Nats team and a red hot starter in Masterson.

 

Still, I'd DFA Dunn in a heartbeat