Is Ventura a good game manager?

[caulfield12]

The promblem has never been keeping good players it has been about acquiring good players. If Chairman Reinsdorf is not going to pay for free-agents, he needs to spend money on better scouting and development.

 

 

Rios/Danks/Carlos Quentin/Ramirez/Floyd...all added within a two year period at little to no for the White Sox.

 

Unfortunately, Swisher/Gio is the one that's hurting the most of all, right now.

 

 

 

I think many are starting to lose faith in Buddy Bell. First, Mark Teahen. All of these young outfield prospects we've been hyping are regressing or not taking a step forward, to the point where you could plug any of them as starters in the outfield of 2014 or 2015.

 

When you have four prospects like that miss...you just can't afford for that to happen. At least one of them has to make it and become an above average (or close to All-Star level) player.

 

Otherwise, you're having to overspend in the FA market. You're limited in international spending. And you're buying the Jeff Keppingers of the world at their highest value instead of following the traditional Sox path of reclamation projects bought at the cheapest acquisition price possible. Bad combination....it's a perfect tsunami that works against rebuilding, when the players you're trying to trade have limited value, with the exception of the pitchers that you need to build a rotation around in order to be competitive.

Edited April 22, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

The promblem has never been keeping good players it has been about acquiring good players. If Chairman Reinsdorf is not going to pay for free-agents, he needs to spend money on better scouting and development.

 

It hasn't been a problem because they have learned the lesson to maintain a respectable team. If there were to go away, so would the fans, and so would the payroll.

[LittleHurt05]

I get the distinct impression that people tired of the 78-85 win teams last year. They'd rather see a 70-win team that has promise than whatever is out there now.

 

You don't have a very good feel on the Sox fanbase. A fair weather fanbase is not gonna support a 70-win team. They don't care about promise or the future, they care about Wins.

[greg775]

I like listening to his postgame comments on mlb.com. He's not a dummy. He just has unreliable veteran players (pitchers).

[caulfield12]

I like listening to his postgame comments on mlb.com. He's not a dummy. He just has unreliable veteran players (pitchers).

 

The bullpen issues (Lindstrom/Veal/Crain) in Sunday's game wouldn't be so magnified were in not for our putrid offense.

 

Even with the best starting pitching in baseball, we can't win more than 85 games with the offensive issues that are patently obvious up and down the line-up, from 1-9.

Edited April 22, 2013 by caulfield12

[greg775]

The bullpen issues (Lindstrom/Veal/Crain) in Sunday's game wouldn't be so magnified were in not for our putrid offense.

 

Even with the best starting pitching in baseball, we can't win more than 85 games with the offensive issues that are patently obvious up and down the line-up, from 1-9.

 

Yes. The Sox lineup is not outstanding with Beckham and Viciedo in it. Without them, it's got to be one of the weakest lineups any pitcher could hope to face. The only way this lineup is above average is if Paulie and Dunn get red-hot at the same time IMO.

[joeynach]

Having Rios steal 3rd base with 1 out and 2 strikes on Adam Dunn today...not sure where he comes up with that.

 

Yes, this drove me crazy as well and is a gleaming example of why I think RV is a bad game manager. How on earth do you call for a Rios steal of 3rd on a two strike count with the highest swing and miss rate player in the history of the world at the plate......and with the one of the best defensive catchers in baseball behind the plate in Mauer. Even if Dunn doesn't strike out, we all know he a true three outcome player so its not likely Dunn is going to hit a single and Rios is going to score, he will most likely hit the ball out of the park or just strikeout that will most likely lead to a double play so WTF is RV thinking. Thats the point, is he thinking about these things, is he even aware of Dunn's tendencies from a statistical point of view, something Fangraphs pointed out last year as a true three outcome player. Drives me crazy to think the man in control of my favorite team could be a baseball dinosaur when it comes to the strategy and thinking part of the game.

[joeynach]

Winning a World Series is much harder when you can't keep your good players around because the stadium is empty.

 

No we have proved this point over and over, the White Sox payroll is not dependent upon ticket sales. The White Sox themselves have proved this old baseball adage false as they have adapted to proverbial low attendance while finding other revenue sources to keep payroll at or above league average for years now.

[joeynach]

I get the distinct impression that people tired of the 78-85 win teams last year. They'd rather see a 70-win team that has promise than whatever is out there now.

 

I would too, If I saw a 70 win team out there that looked like it had an upward direction and promise of well talented youthful core I would be fine with trotting out a 70 win team for a few years. I don't see that with this team, I see a few nice pieces, but I see too many of the same flawed hitters and pitchers. Pitchers with explosive stuff with the same achillies heel of control issues, Hitters with plenty of power with same Achilles heel of poor plate discipline (high K, low BB rate).

[joeynach]

How will you avoid further erosion of their ticket and advertising base? 1.96 million isn't nothing. "The Kids can Play" year was 1.34 million in attendance.

 

It would erode further for sure, but if any team can adapt to lower than expected attendance and still produce steady revenue and thus decent payroll its the White Sox. They have mastered this skill and they don't even have one of those crazy TV deals. Id say they have learned how to drive revenue from non team performance related sources so maintaining a good cash flow if they were to rebuild doesn't scare me nor should it scare management all that much.

[joeynach]

Yes. The Sox lineup is not outstanding with Beckham and Viciedo in it. Without them, it's got to be one of the weakest lineups any pitcher could hope to face. The only way this lineup is above average is if Paulie and Dunn get red-hot at the same time IMO.

 

Funny, I was talking about this with my friend at Bacardi at the Park today. We look at the Sox lineup now and we see a ton of easy outs and weak offensive production. A lot of free swining, a lot of strikeouts, a lot of struggling to get on base and put the ball in play. We were saying the Sox look like one of those teams who in fantasy baseball you just pick up the SP thats available that week that is facing them b/c they are just one of those light hitting teams now. The metrics would probably confirm, Im sure the White Sox have the worst team OBP in the league and a majority of their lineup with well below average wOBA, probably wOBA's below .300 which is dismal.

[caulfield12]

It would erode further for sure, but if any team can adapt to lower than expected attendance and still produce steady revenue and thus decent payroll its the White Sox. They have mastered this skill and they don't even have one of those crazy TV deals. Id say they have learned how to drive revenue from non team performance related sources so maintaining a good cash flow if they were to rebuild doesn't scare me nor should it scare management all that much.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Reminds me of the scare tactics over hyperinflation resulting if there's more quantitative easing (and rising national debt) and we don't go with austerity measures instead.

 

A preponderance of the evidence points to the White Sox being a tremendously profitable enterprise. They'll be getting an additional $25 million next year because of the national baseball contract (as will all the other teams).

 

Even if they went back to that $65 million 2005 payroll, they'd be in no danger of leaving Chicago. In fact, their lease and the guaranteed 1.5 million in attendance/tickets sold means the taxpayers have no other choice but the White Sox at USCF until at least 2029.

[joeynach]

Agreed.

 

Reminds me of the scare tactics over hyperinflation resulting if there's more quantitative easing (and rising national debt) and we don't go with austerity measures instead.

 

A preponderance of the evidence points to the White Sox being a tremendously profitable enterprise. They'll be getting an additional $25 million next year because of the national baseball contract (as will all the other teams).

 

Even if they went back to that $65 million 2005 payroll, they'd be in no danger of leaving Chicago. In fact, their lease and the guaranteed 1.5 million in attendance/tickets sold means the taxpayers have no other choice but the White Sox at USCF until at least 2029.

 

Isn't it amazing that we as fans recognize that the White Sox as an organization place a priority on fiscal responsibility as a means of stability. They never over extend themselves, yet they never go off the proverbial grid. They speak publicly about their financial stability and importance in maintaining their organization from a sound financial perspective all the time. The strange thing to me is the White Sox could be one of the more risk taking organizations in baseball in they wanted to (financially speaking). They hold no debt, the public financed their stadium, they have a sweetheart lease with a contract that allows them to do what they want to the park and the surrounding area yet keep almost all if not all of their revenue privately. If any team out there can afford to actually be less fiscally prudent and just go baseball crazy from time to time.....it would be the White Sox.

[southsider2k5]

No we have proved this point over and over, the White Sox payroll is not dependent upon ticket sales. The White Sox themselves have proved this old baseball adage false as they have adapted to proverbial low attendance while finding other revenue sources to keep payroll at or above league average for years now.

 

You do realize that if the Sox sell off, things like advertisers will flee along with attendance, right?

[Marty34]

You do realize that if the Sox sell off, things like advertisers will flee along with attendance, right?

 

You do realize he Sox would make money hand over fist under any scenario where they cut payroll 20-30%

[caulfield12]

Yes, but that extra $25 million coming in next year from the new national network contract might help ease the pain a little bit.

 

There's always the chance that if they did lose some of their traditional advertisers, a new tier of opportunities would be opened up for companies that have never done any advertising or promotions with the Sox.

 

Every coin has two sides, as they say. The White Sox have already gone through this before, losing a lot of the dollars they picked up from the World Series title when the team tanked in 2007 and the 2008 global financial crisis hit.

 

And, when the Sox got back into contention, a lot of fans and advertisers would be back on the bandwagon.

 

The White Sox tv ratings were up significantly last year, and that definitely helped ComCast as they could charge more for advertising during Sox games...and ComCast is 40% controlled by Reinsdorf, et al.

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

You do realize he Sox would make money hand over fist under any scenario where they cut payroll 20-30%

 

Not true at all. They would need to get to Astros range to make the big bucks.

[Balta1701]

Not true at all. They would need to get to Astros range to make the big bucks.

Except having 1200 people tuning in for a game would destroy them the next time the TV deal came up for renewal.

[southsider2k5]

Except having 1200 people tuning in for a game would destroy them the next time the TV deal came up for renewal.

 

Also very true.

[Dick Allen]

The White Sox are not going to have a total rebuild anytime soon, and considering how they have judged HS and college talent lately, it's a pretty good thing. It's not like they have the next Frank Thomas or Paul Konerko, or Robin Ventura or Magglio Ordonez in the pipeline.

 

It is amazing to me some people think a total rebuild can happen in a few years. If everything went perfectly perhaps. But things don't go perfectly most of the time.

 

The whiners would actually have something to whine about for years. At least this board isn't as bad as WSI who moan about fireworks being too quiet, stripes on pants, ushers not smiling at them, scoreboards being too small...They are playing poorly right now, but they will get better, and it's not like they are 10 games out.

 

 

[hogan873]

The White Sox are not going to have a total rebuild anytime soon, and considering how they have judged HS and college talent lately, it's a pretty good thing. It's not like they have the next Frank Thomas or Paul Konerko, or Robin Ventura or Magglio Ordonez in the pipeline.

 

It is amazing to me some people think a total rebuild can happen in a few years. If everything went perfectly perhaps. But things don't go perfectly most of the time.

 

The whiners would actually have something to whine about for years. At least this board isn't as bad as WSI who moan about fireworks being too quiet, stripes on pants, ushers not smiling at them, scoreboards being too small...They are playing poorly right now, but they will get better, and it's not like they are 10 games out.

Yet. The team looks really bad right now, especially the offense. I agree that they will play better. But when and who? I'm very concerned about Adam Dunn right now. He's batting below .100, and he's still in the 4 or 5 hole. He's on pace to have a year as bad or worse than 2011.

 

Detroit is a better team, and unless the Sox turn it around quickly, they will be 10 games out soon.

[Balta1701]

Yet. The team looks really bad right now, especially the offense. I agree that they will play better. But when and who? I'm very concerned about Adam Dunn right now. He's batting below .100, and he's still in the 4 or 5 hole. He's on pace to have a year as bad or worse than 2011.

 

Detroit is a better team, and unless the Sox turn it around quickly, they will be 10 games out soon.

Keppinger will be a lot better before it's all said and done. He's making good contact and putting together a .180 BABIP. That's one of those things that happens to people during a baseball season.

[cabiness42]

Nobody is a good game manager when his players have a .271 OBP.

[Balta1701]

Nobody is a good game manager when his players have a .271 OBP.

I gave Ventura credit for how well prepared his players appeared in every aspect of the game coming out of ST last year, so I feel no qualms about saying that part of this number relates to how prepared his players were coming out of ST this year.

[southsider2k5]

The White Sox are not going to have a total rebuild anytime soon, and considering how they have judged HS and college talent lately, it's a pretty good thing. It's not like they have the next Frank Thomas or Paul Konerko, or Robin Ventura or Magglio Ordonez in the pipeline.

 

It is amazing to me some people think a total rebuild can happen in a few years. If everything went perfectly perhaps. But things don't go perfectly most of the time.

 

The whiners would actually have something to whine about for years. At least this board isn't as bad as WSI who moan about fireworks being too quiet, stripes on pants, ushers not smiling at them, scoreboards being too small...They are playing poorly right now, but they will get better, and it's not like they are 10 games out.

 

Especially because no one can actually document where this has happened in a short period of time. We are talking about the better part of a decade here, in all likelihood. If people aren't going now, they sure as hell aren't going when we are starting a team that should be in Birmingham.