Direction?

[GreatScott82]

After listening to the score this morning, it made me wonder about the current direction of this team. If the Sox continue to tank and are 7 to 8 games back by July 1st, would should Hahn do?

 

KW said last season that the White Sox are in the process of a modified rebuild. This meant that the Sox would insert young guys into the every day roster in an attempt to still compete in the process. Last year it worked. In fact, it almost worked too well. They were about a week away from clinching the American League Central before falling short.

 

They let AJ go and inserted Flowers but they signed Keppinger and Peavy. They are bringing in veterans but yet involving younger talent. They traded away Quentin last year but kept guys like Rios and Dunn. Is this because they could not move their contracts or because they truly think they will be pivotal components to a winning team? The direction of this team is just flat out confusing.

 

Quite honestly, if this team falters in 2013, (And I'm not saying they well!, its only April!) I want to see a many changes for this MLB roster. With exception of our young pitching, there is not one guy I would not mind trading away for prospects. I know it sounds foolish to just gut the team, but why do a modified rebuild and win 80 games, when we can do it the right way and obtain better draft picks. Isn't that the goal essentially? To continue to acquire talent for our below average farm system?

 

Here is what I would do if they fall out of it early:

This Summer:

1) Trade Peavy- His contract is reasonable and he proved to be a bulldog last year. We can likely get some mid range prospects for him.

2) Trade Rios- He is our most attractive piece right now- Can hit, play defense, run the bases- his contract expires after 2014 so he will also be attractive at the deadline.

 

 

This Winter:

1) Say goodbye to Mr. White Sox- Paul Konerko. I am predicting that he will likely retire after this season. He had done it all for us but its time to move on.

2) Let Floyd, Crain walk via free agency.

3) See what the market looks like for guys like Ramirez and Beckham. Honestly, they have had more than enough time to prove they can hit consistently in the big leagues and have struggled for way too long. I am ready for a change in the infield!

4) Insert Carlos Sanchez to SS, move Keppinger to 2B and insert Connor Gilepsie to 3B.

5) Move Dayan Viciedo to 1B.

6) With the trades of Rios and the position transfer of Viciedo, this leaves two OF positions open. This would create room for guys like Trayce Thompson, Courtney Hawkins, Keenyn Walker & Jared Mitchell. Not to mention potential prospects that the Sox would get back in return from the trades of Rios and Peavy.

 

It is time to go young, open up some payroll flexibility and move on. Obviously, if the Sox do turn things around, they can think about doing these types of moves in the winter.....

 

 

[kitekrazy]

After listening to the score this morning, it made me wonder about the current direction of this team. If the Sox continue to tank and are 7 to 8 games back by July 1st, would should Hahn do?

 

KW said last season that the White Sox are in the process of a modified rebuild. This meant that the Sox would insert young guys into the every day roster in an attempt to still compete in the process. Last year it worked. In fact, it almost worked too well. They were about a week away from clinching the American League Central before falling short.

 

They let AJ go and inserted Flowers but they signed Keppinger and Peavy. They are bringing in veterans but yet involving younger talent. They traded away Quentin last year but kept guys like Rios and Dunn. Is this because they could not move their contracts or because they truly think they will be pivotal components to a winning team? The direction of this team is just flat out confusing.

 

Quite honestly, if this team falters in 2013, (And I'm not saying they well!, its only April!) I want to see a many changes for this MLB roster. With exception of our young pitching, there is not one guy I would not mind trading away for prospects. I know it sounds foolish to just gut the team, but why do a modified rebuild and win 80 games, when we can do it the right way and obtain better draft picks. Isn't that the goal essentially? To continue to acquire talent for our below average farm system?

 

Here is what I would do if they fall out of it early:

This Summer:

1) Trade Peavy- His contract is reasonable and he proved to be a bulldog last year. We can likely get some mid range prospects for him.

2) Trade Rios- He is our most attractive piece right now- Can hit, play defense, run the bases- his contract expires after 2014 so he will also be attractive at the deadline.

 

This Winter:

1) Say goodbye to Mr. White Sox- Paul Konerko. I am predicting that he will likely retire after this season. He had done it all for us but its time to move on.

2) Let Floyd, Crain walk via free agency.

3) See what the market looks like for guys like Ramirez and Beckham. Honestly, they have had more than enough time to prove they can hit consistently in the big leagues and have struggled for way too long. I am ready for a change in the infield!

4) Insert Carlos Sanchez to SS, move Keppinger to 2B and insert Connor Gilepsie to 3B.

5) Move Dayan Viciedo to 1B.

6) With the trades of Rios and the position transfer of Viciedo, this leaves two OF positions open. This would create room for guys like Trayce Thompson, Courtney Hawkins, Keenyn Walker & Jared Mitchell. Not to mention potential prospects that the Sox would get back in return from the trades of Rios and Peavy.

 

It is time to go young, open up some payroll flexibility and move on. Obviously, if the Sox do turn things around, they can think about doing these types of moves in the winter.....

 

I'd keep those two. You have to keep some good players.

 

They are bad at going young. Scouting and development are not going to happen overnight.

 

Let throw in the towel, so what if it's April. Get rid of Verlander, trade Fielder, fire Leyland....oh wait wrong team.

 

[Marty34]

There are only three players on the current roster who are important to a rebuild. Sale, Quintana, and Santiago. Danks is fourth on the list because of his contract. Realize Viciedo is a bust, keep Konerko through a rebuild if you want, doesn't matter and do with the rest of the roster what you will.

 

Deal by deadline: Peavy, Rios, De Aza, Floyd, Reed, Crain.

[caulfield12]

It's way too early to assume that Gillaspie's an everyday player based on a hot start.

 

Keppinger, on a good team, is more of a super sub. They still need a full-time 2B/SS.

 

Sanchez had a really good season last year, but he has to back it up in 2013 before he becomes a completely legit prospect. His age does work in his favor, but he's not the kind of dynamic, game-changing presence this team needs more of...he's more of a complementary piece, who does lots of things well but doesn't have a lot of pop (yet), and that's going to be an issue when you have three infielders who would be hard-pressed to put up 25-30 homers combined at USCF.

 

We're having so many issues right now with Dunn, Viciedo and Flowers striking out...and the low team OBP...one shudders to think what might happen with Mitchell/Walker/Thompson (2 of the 3) starting in the 2013 outfield. Right now, I would go with Walker and Thompson, simply because Mitchell's going to strike out the most and we need another player at the top of the order to spark the offense, and Walker's the more prototypical leadoff guy. (That said, it's scary to think what could happen if we bring up Thompson too early and he goes Joe Borchard on the Sox...thankfully, in this scenario, we wouldn't be in "must win now" mode and we would be able to extend some patience).

 

If that's the direction they do go in...it's going to be a 66-74 win team. And that's assuming Viciedo and Flowers are both around and have decent seasons offensively and don't end up as platoon players.

 

 

 

 

They need to dump Matt Thornton from the payroll as well. The sooner, the better.

 

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

There are only three players on the current roster who are important to a rebuild. Sale, Quintana, and Santiago. Danks is fourth on the list because of his contract. Realize Viciedo is a bust, keep Konerko through a rebuild if you want, doesn't matter and do with the rest of the roster what you will.

 

Deal by deadline: Peavy, Rios, De Aza, Floyd, Reed, Crain.

 

Ummm....Viciedo's a bust after 30 at-bats when he put up 25 homers and 78 RBI's last year and was close to a ML average left fielder at age 23.

 

That's fine. Then what is Tyler Flowers? And Beckham?

 

I'm not sure why we would be in a hurry to trade Addison Reed, unless some team out there's going to give up a ransom for him. He's super cheap still...and sure, you don't need a bona-fide closer when you have a rebuilding team, there's THAT argument. But something which is often overlooked is how difficult it is for a young team to have confidence it can win games when the bullpen collapses game after game.

 

Internally, they should assess between Jones and Reed who they REALLY envision being the closer for the next 2-3 years and deal the other if they can get something significant back.

 

And Lindstrom will have value if he continues to pitch this well....while not throwing 98-100 MPH anymore, he's a nice piece for a contending team if he's 100% healthy.

[greg775]

4) Insert Carlos Sanchez to SS, move Keppinger to 2B and insert Connor Gilepsie to 3B.

 

Is that the worst infield in White Sox history, combined with whomever takes over for Paulie at first? Wow.

[LittleHurt05]

Is that the worst infield in White Sox history, combined with whomever takes over for Paulie at first? Wow.

 

Beckham, Alexei, Morel was just as bad last April.

[spiderman]

There are only three players on the current roster who are important to a rebuild. Sale, Quintana, and Santiago. Danks is fourth on the list because of his contract. Realize Viciedo is a bust, keep Konerko through a rebuild if you want, doesn't matter and do with the rest of the roster what you will.

 

Deal by deadline: Peavy, Rios, De Aza, Floyd, Reed, Crain.

 

I don't think Quintana and Santiago are anything more than parts. Yes, both may have solid/good future's, and cheaper priced guys are needed to balance the payroll, so in no means, am I saying that they should be traded, but I'm cautious to say that these are building blocks either.

 

If the White Sox tank, everyone outside of Chris Sale are up for discussion, and I probably would be willing to deal guys like Peavy/Rios on a team going nowhere if (espeically in Peavy's case) if they can bring back 1 or 2 minor league prospects who can contribute in 2014 while at the same time, freeing up payroll. Let's face it - the minor league system's lack of talent is eventually going to catch up to an aging major league roster, and free agency shouldn't be a primary method of acuiring talent.

 

If the Sox were to tank this season, think of it as more of a chance to get Santiago in the rotation so that next season, the rotation remains fairly solid with Sale/Danks/Quintana/Santiago and some other minor league option.

 

Offensively is where the Sox need to start adding young pieces who can get on base, and it may take guys like Peavy/Floyd/Rios to do that.

[caulfield12]

DeAza's going to eventually fall into that Jenks/Crede/Beckham/Quentin category of getting more expensive as well...and his age and the wear and tear from playing so much, as Dominican players have more mileage on their bodies from having to prove themselves when they're younger to get signed and then hitting full year-round play at age 14-15-16.

 

Ideally, Johnson would get at least 3-4-5 starts this year as well, as he's the best replacement for Gavin Floyd/Peavy in the system.

 

Or Beck, longer range.

 

Quintana's going to have to put up another sub 4.00 ERA season (just like Buehrle had to face the doubters early in his career) before EVERYONE is confident he's part of the long-term plan going forward.

 

 

[knightni]

Viciedo is not a bust.

[kitekrazy]

Beckham, Alexei, Morel was just as bad last April.

 

Not too long ago it was Josh Fields, Teahen.

 

Direction so far

 

[fathom]

If the Sox continue to struggle this year, Peavy is far and away the best trade chip the Sox have. Call up the Dodgers and see what they're willing to give up for him.

[The Ginger Kid]

If the Sox continue to struggle this year, Peavy is far and away the best trade chip the Sox have. Call up the Dodgers and see what they're willing to give up for him.

What kind of talent does SF have? I bet Bochy would love to have him back.

[fathom]

What kind of talent does SF have? I bet Bochy would love to have him back.

 

That was another team I was thinking of since Lincecum might have a short leash there and is a FA after this season. With that said, I'm pretty sure Giants have a mediocre farm system now.

[caulfield12]

And yet somehow the Giants can take guys like Melky Cabrera, Angel Pagan, Gregor Blanco and Andres Torres and get positive results out of all those guys...

[The Ultimate Champion]

No way in hell you trade Peavy. The Jakemeister gave us a major sweetheart of a deal to stick around here & it would be a total b**** move to ship him off elsewhere unless he personally requested a deal. Besides, a rotation with 3-4 lefties in it cannot have 2 revolving doors/black holes in it from the right hand side, and if Peavy goes, that is what happens, and it makes it harder on everyone including the players (Q, Santiago) you're trying to develop. Plus we need more of Peavy's attitude and grit and fierce in-game ballsy competitor fireyness and less of what we've been seeing on nights like tonight, no way in hell you trade your leader.

[fathom]

No way in hell you trade Peavy. The Jakemeister gave us a major sweetheart of a deal to stick around here & it would be a total b**** move to ship him off elsewhere unless he personally requested a deal. Besides, a rotation with 3-4 lefties in it cannot have 2 revolving doors/black holes in it from the right hand side, and if Peavy goes, that is what happens, and it makes it harder on everyone including the players (Q, Santiago) you're trying to develop. Plus we need more of Peavy's attitude and grit and fierce in-game ballsy competitor fireyness and less of what we've been seeing on nights like tonight, no way in hell you trade your leader.

 

And what good would having that leader be on the roster next year that's in a rebuilding mode? If the Sox struggle this year, Peavy's much more valuable to the organization as one of the few impact trade chips they have.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Very few teams EVER get big-time hotshot prospects in large deals and then end up getting what they thought they had paid for. If you do the homework you can come up with some very good pieces out of Crain, Thornton, Floyd, possibly Paulie, etc. You trade Peavy & you are being a dickhead for one and you're probably losing the deal on the talent side of things for two, and third, you're removing a personality and a leader from a team whose current vets mostly have one foot out the door, and you're potentially killing your entire pitching staff to boot. Bad move.

 

Let's think here, who are our best pieces now? Sale, who no one would ever trade us anyway, and the type of player you have to draft. Q, Santiago, Gillaspie, and DeAza were all acquired for a combined low draft pick and Jeff Soptic, etc. We don't need to make huge deals to build a core.

[caulfield12]

It would set a bad precedent to deal Jake quickly, but a lot can change between now and midseason.

 

I think a LOT of it would depend on how comfortable he is here, what the atmosphere's like around the team and organization and attendance...if it gets to be all doom and gloom and they're struggling to draw 10-15,000 for weeknight games in the summer, then sure, you can imagine a scenario where Peavy would be the #1 trade target for other organizations.

 

Rios...if he keeps playing as well as he has for another half season, and with only 1 1/2 more years to go on his original Blue Jays deal (with a club option for 2015) would become suddenly quite attractive.

 

Right now, we're stuck with Dunn and Danks...but we can easily move pieces like Ramirez, Crain, Thornton, Floyd, Lindstrom, etc. Konerko, it's going to be a similar situation to the Peavy one, with the club and JR being more careful to avoid taking ANOTHER PR hit after already letting Buehrle and AJ go (at least the Buehrle decision was logical, but not having a capable replacement for AJ seems to be one of the glaring weaknesses from the offseason).

 

If we have to pair a bigger salary with the likes of a Nathan Jones or Addison Reed, then we'd be dumb to not at least consider any and all offers....but hopefully all this conjecture is at LEAST one full month from ending up in Phil Rogers TRIB articles.

Edited April 16, 2013 by caulfield12

[balfanman]

I really hate to say this and I know it's still early but.........I have the distinct feeling that this team is going to fall too far behind in the race, then get hot enough to almost crawl back in it. This, once again, gives our management the false perception that this really is a good team that just got off to a bad start so the only move they make at the deadline is giving up a decent prospect for some "past his prime" veteran. Then we have the usual late August - September swoon, leaving us fans pi**** off and one less respectable prospect to root for.

 

I think that I tend to be an optimist most of the time too.

[hogan873]

There are only three players on the current roster who are important to a rebuild. Sale, Quintana, and Santiago. Danks is fourth on the list because of his contract. Realize Viciedo is a bust, keep Konerko through a rebuild if you want, doesn't matter and do with the rest of the roster what you will.

 

Deal by deadline: Peavy, Rios, De Aza, Floyd, Reed, Crain.

Enough. I believe you are the only one on this site that thinks Viciedo is a bust. He's not. He had a decent year last year hitting 25 HRs. He needs to hit right-handers better, and that will probably come. Besides, he's not a drain on the payroll.

 

You don't like him, fine. But enough with the "he's a bust" and "platoon him with Juan Pierre."

[GreatScott82]

Enough. I believe you are the only one on this site that thinks Viciedo is a bust. He's not. He had a decent year last year hitting 25 HRs. He needs to hit right-handers better, and that will probably come. Besides, he's not a drain on the payroll.

 

You don't like him, fine. But enough with the "he's a bust" and "platoon him with Juan Pierre."

I agree. I think Viciedo should be one of the guys we keep once they start shipping out some veterans. He is very young and cheap! From what everyone is saying in the organization- it appears as if he may even be Pauly's replacement at 1B next year.

 

Guys I want to keep: Sale, Viciedo, Quintana, Santiago, Reed and Jones.

 

They can trade anyone else on this roster for all I care.

[Marty34]

Enough. I believe you are the only one on this site that thinks Viciedo is a bust. He's not. He had a decent year last year hitting 25 HRs. He needs to hit right-handers better, and that will probably come. Besides, he's not a drain on the payroll.

 

You don't like him, fine. But enough with the "he's a bust" and "platoon him with Juan Pierre."

 

I think it's premature to say he's not a bust. You don't spend two years waiting on a guy to develop as a LF'er and his K-to-BB ratio says it all.

[witesoxfan]

I have no problem dealing Peavy, but if you want positive PR, you ask Peavy first. If that's the way the season turns out - I don't think this thought has crossed anyone's mind except the eternal optimists on Soxtalk - then you essentially tell Peavy that you are going to sell off pieces this year and intend on going through a youth movement next year where you don't believe the team will compete. You state your intentions up front - we want you to make your own choice and we will respect your preference to stay even though we won't compete or we will attempt to move you to get you a World Series title and that we will accomodate to your wishes because you accomodated us.

[Balta1701]

I think it's premature to say he's not a bust. You don't spend two years waiting on a guy to develop as a LF'er and his K-to-BB ratio says it all.

For once, I'm going to agree with marty. The one thing he needed to work on this offseason was improving his approach. He's completely failed to do that so far. People are getting him out on balls he should be crushing because he can't square anything up, every swing seems defensive while he's down in the count.