Direction?

[Marty34]

Seriously, what are you going to get for anyone besides Sale on the Sox roster that would be useful by the time they had a team worthy of the MLB logo on their back shoulder after a rebuild?

 

Why do you whine about the Sox being bad, but only want them to get worse?

 

Why do you turn to personal attacks?

[southsider2k5]

Depends how important winning is for him at this stage of his career. If this goes south I could see him wanting to go a lot of places.

 

This is a guy who wanted to stay in SD when they were in a full fire sale mode. It is also a guy who passed up a chance to the hit the free market and go to any team he wanted to for a massively undermarket contract with the White Sox.

[southsider2k5]

Why spend money to try to stay in the middle though? Better to save resources as you rebuild. That option isn't perfect either of course.

 

If you do a full rebuild, there won't be any resources to save.

[Eminor3rd]

Why spend money to try to stay in the middle though? Better to save resources as you rebuild. That option isn't perfect either of course.

 

I don't think that's how it is though -- it's spending money as necessary to make sound investments in improving your team every year. Ideally, the money you spend nds up being on resources that produce long-term value. So it's NOT going for broke on the free agent market unless you have the chance to acquire a good buy, and it's NOT trading everyone for whatever you can get unless you feel like you are getting the better end of the deal. Very rarely do teams go from horrible to winners, much more frequently they go from decent to better, to winners.

[greg775]

The direction of this team? It should be to get the starting pitchers fixed. Tell them to get their heads out of their asses and start doing the job on the mound.

 

I do think the loss of Beckham hurts our lineup a lot. Flowers and Dunn are automatic outs and Kepp has been lousy. Taking out what is potentially a decent bat really turns us into a minor league offense IMO.

[Chicago White Sox]

First off, I think it's way too early to talk about unloading.

 

Second, the starting pitching can still be a strength for us the next two years. Sale, Peavy, Danks, & Quintana are all under team control. Santiago hopefully will get a chance in our rotation at some point this season. Plus there's a decent chance Erik Johnson will be ready next year. We have more than enough options to put together a strong rotation, which is always the hardest part of fielding a competitive team.

 

Obviously the offense will be an issue, especially if Paulie leaves or retires. However, we should have some money to work with given that Konerko, Floyd, Thornton & Crain all could be gone. Honestly, I expect a lot of changes this coming offseason from an offensive standpoint. It's pretty clear that Hahn wante a more consistent offense given his moves for Keppinger & Gillaspie. Hopefully with some time he can accomplish that.

[Marty34]

I don't think that's how it is though -- it's spending money as necessary to make sound investments in improving your team every year. Ideally, the money you spend nds up being on resources that produce long-term value. So it's NOT going for broke on the free agent market unless you have the chance to acquire a good buy, and it's NOT trading everyone for whatever you can get unless you feel like you are getting the better end of the deal. Very rarely do teams go from horrible to winners, much more frequently they go from decent to better, to winners.

 

True, but this seems to corrolate with age. They have to get younger.

[Eminor3rd]

I do think the loss of Beckham hurts our lineup a lot.

 

I just want to let that line sink in. Who would have expected THAT to be said at any point this year?

[Balta1701]

True, but this seems to corrolate with age. They have to get younger.

When they bring someone up to try to develop them you'll just get tired of them and want to trade them.

[Eminor3rd]

True, but this seems to corrolate with age. They have to get younger.

 

Definitely. That's what I mean about making sound long-term investments. The downside is that you have to wait for those opportunities to come rather than just deciding to go Blue Jays/Marlins one year. We would have to be content that the changes our team makes for next year may simply not be enough for next year. But, if those changes don't hurt us AFTER next year, then we'll be improving from a better base from then on.

[hogan873]

The direction of this team? It should be to get the starting pitchers fixed. Tell them to get their heads out of their asses and start doing the job on the mound.

 

I do think the loss of Beckham hurts our lineup a lot. Flowers and Dunn are automatic outs and Kepp has been lousy. Taking out what is potentially a decent bat really turns us into a minor league offense IMO.

I have to diagree here. Gillaspie has been fine so far. I don't know if he can keep it up, but so far he's doing better than Beckham has. Defensively, yes, it hurts a bit. But in the lineup? No.

[Balta1701]

Definitely. That's what I mean about making sound long-term investments. The downside is that you have to wait for those opportunities to come rather than just deciding to go Blue Jays/Marlins one year. We would have to be content that the changes our team makes for next year may simply not be enough for next year. But, if those changes don't hurt us AFTER next year, then we'll be improving from a better base from then on.

And yet this entire thread comes about because no one, not a single person here, has been content with the results of making moves this offseason that were designed to build the foundation rather than winning immediately. Playing kids while they struggle, not letting guys like Gavin Floyd go until you have a trade partner and a replacement, not spending money on the big FA splash, filling holes but not doing so with guys so expensive they can't be replaced.

[southsider2k5]

I have to diagree here. Gillaspie has been fine so far. I don't know if he can keep it up, but so far he's doing better than Beckham has. Defensively, yes, it hurts a bit. But in the lineup? No.

 

I agree. Gillespie has been a great find so far. If we are willing to jump off of cliffs because of the start of guys like Adam Dunn, we should probably start voting Gillespie to the All-Star team.

[Marty34]

When they bring someone up to try to develop them you'll just get tired of them and want to trade them.

 

Why, because I have formed an opinion on Viciedo?

[kitekrazy]

Does anyone have any insight that this organization is capable of rebuilding? What changes have been made in scouting, development, ect?

My impression is far more negative with guys like Viciedo. They were impressed with his hitting and overlooked everything else. That's seems to be the Sox philosophy. They don't develop baseball players nor do they draft them.

 

If they trade guys like Rios or Peavy it should be for guys who are ready to play.

 

Get the the impression if the organization was an NFL team they wold be more impressed by the Combine than film footage.

Edited April 16, 2013 by kitekrazy

[kitekrazy]

I agree. Gillespie has been a great find so far. If we are willing to jump off of cliffs because of the start of guys like Adam Dunn, we should probably start voting Gillespie to the All-Star team.

 

LOL! Everyone seems to have forgotten about the 2012 Tigers. It took the last two months of the season to finally live up to expectations.

 

[Marty34]

Definitely. That's what I mean about making sound long-term investments. The downside is that you have to wait for those opportunities to come rather than just deciding to go Blue Jays/Marlins one year. We would have to be content that the changes our team makes for next year may simply not be enough for next year. But, if those changes don't hurt us AFTER next year, then we'll be improving from a better base from then on.

 

My view is to salvage anything on this team aside from Sale, Santiago, and Quintana to start rebuilding that offense. Between Rios, Peavy, De Aza, Reed, Crain, and Konerko hopefully they can find at least 2 everyday starters.

[oldsox]

I agree...I mean there isn't much to gain by trading these young players right now anyways...you may be able to move some of the vets if they are desired by other clubs if things look bad at the break...but we can't possibly know these things now...this team is in a funk, but it's getting a lot of attention because it is coming right at the beginning of the season. This team is better than this, especially if Alex is going to hit this way again this year.

I disagree. Talent-wise with position players, it is in the lower third of MLB. Easily, IMO.

[hogan873]

My view is to salvage anything on this team aside from Sale, Santiago, and Quintana to start rebuilding that offense. Between Rios, Peavy, De Aza, Reed, Crain, and Konerko hopefully they can find at least 2 everyday starters.

I assume you mean get rid of when you say "salvage." So, trade away a decent lead-off guy who plays decent defense, a good starting pitcher who eats innings, a guy who is the team's best offense producer, two good bullpen arms, and a power hitting first baseman/DH for maybe two starters? Okay. Who and for what positions? How much money are the Sox going to have to eat? Who ends up in CF? Who ends up in RF? Who fills the gaps left in the bullpen? Do the Sox even win 65 games?

[witesoxfan]

I disagree. Talent-wise with position players, it is in the lower third of MLB. Easily, IMO.

 

And the pitching staff is, bare minimum, top 10 in the majors with the potential to be top 5. The team is better than this are you are nitpicking a weakness to try and prove a rather weak and hollow point.

[Marty34]

I assume you mean get rid of when you say "salvage." So, trade away a decent lead-off guy who plays decent defense, a good starting pitcher who eats innings, a guy who is the team's best offense producer, two good bullpen arms, and a power hitting first baseman/DH for maybe two starters? Okay. Who and for what positions? How much money are the Sox going to have to eat? Who ends up in CF? Who ends up in RF? Who fills the gaps left in the bullpen? Do the Sox even win 65 games?

 

I can't answer your questions and to me they're not very important. The Sox desperately need cheap offensive talent regardless of position.

[bmags]

And the pitching staff is, bare minimum, top 10 in the majors with the potential to be top 5. The team is better than this are you are nitpicking a weakness to try and prove a rather weak and hollow point.

 

Which is incredibly hard to do. And to me it's all the more amazing that we could have such mediocre teams with such great pitching year to year. Ultimately, that's a failure.

[Eminor3rd]

I can't answer your questions and to me they're not very important. The Sox desperately need cheap offensive talent regardless of position.

 

But I think this process has started. Rushing it will only ensure you get less value out of the assets you use -- both talent and dollars. And those questions of positions are extremely important, ESPECIALLY if you advocated a scorched-Earth approach to rebuilding because if you don't have them covered, where are you when the core you want exists in a few years? You still have a bunch of other positions to fill and you dumped all of your tradeable assets for pennies on the dollar.

[Balta1701]

Which is incredibly hard to do. And to me it's all the more amazing that we could have such mediocre teams with such great pitching year to year. Ultimately, that's a failure.

Yeah I know there's a ballpark effect built in, but in terms of ERA, the Sox haven't had "Great pitching" the last 3 years, they've had mediocre pitching. Each of the last 3 years the Sox have been 8th or tied for 8th in the AL in ERA. Compare that to 2009, they were 2nd in the AL in ERA.

 

They've invested a lot in their pitching staff in both money and talent and it has not produced great pitching year to year. A whole lot of that, FWIW, is Jake Peavy and his associated injury, which has hurt every one of those years.

[mmmmmbeeer]

There's absolutely no need for an all-out rebuild. If the Tigers weren't as loaded as they are, with many prognosticators declaring them the best team in MLB preseason, we wouldn't worry nearly as much about a sluggish start. While we obviously have a few holes, they surely aren't bad enough that we should just scrap it all except for Chris Sale.