cabiness42 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Right so the US govt can not even say you either plea to death penalty or no deal. Its he pleas guilty with or without a recommendation. Which is why your hypothetical was funny. He could plead guilty to the crime and still argue in the sentencing phase that he doesn't deserve the death penalty. There's no logical reason why he would do it, but it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 No they have an obligation to make the best decision given the current circumstances. If they think that more exposure will in the end cause more harm, they can take a plea deal to make sure that it does not happen. The govt doesnt even have to prosecute if it doesnt want. They can do whatever they want, its their case. No where in the law does it say that the US govt MUST prosecute a criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 It's not about probability of guilt or acquittal, it's about creating a media frenzy with a month-long trial, re-kindling all the horrible emotions that resulted from the attack, creating risk for people wanting to kill this 19-year-old when he is transported to and from the courthouse everyday during said trial, etc. It's still early in the information-gathering process, but I don't see this being anything close to a month-long trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 08:50 PM) i don't know if he is or isn't a citizen, but there's no way this guy is going to simply be deported. He's not. His brother was. So he could get deported although I heavily doubt that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 09:25 PM) He's not. His brother was. So he could get deported although I heavily doubt that. No Im 99% sure the younger brother is the US citizen. http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/04/19/bombi...-us-citizenship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 No they have an obligation to make the best decision given the current circumstances. If they think that more exposure will in the end cause more harm, they can take a plea deal to make sure that it does not happen. The govt doesnt even have to prosecute if it doesnt want. They can do whatever they want, its their case. No where in the law does it say that the US govt MUST prosecute a criminal. At this point, I don't see a major downside to having a trial. I think people have watched too many legal dramas. The government has an obligation to not only these victims but future victims of other crimes because sentences to past similar crimes are used by judges in future sentencing procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 09:26 PM) No Im 99% sure the younger brother is the US citizen. http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/04/19/bombi...-us-citizenship I had read that one of them was a citizen before, NVM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 09:27 PM) At this point, I don't see a major downside to having a trial. I think people have watched too many legal dramas. The government has an obligation to not only these victims but future victims of other crimes because sentences to past similar crimes are used by judges in future sentencing procedures. Right the govt has to protect its people. And you cant have terrorist propaganda that says "Even if you surrender they will kill you, so you should suicide bomb, you should never surrender." We want them to surrender peacefully, we have to give some sort of incentive to that. We need to be able to tell terrorists "If you turn yourselves in, it will be better than killing yourself and others." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Right the govt has to protect its people. And you cant have terrorist propaganda that says "Even if you surrender they will kill you, so you should suicide bomb, you should never surrender." We want them to surrender peacefully, we have to give some sort of incentive to that. We need to be able to tell terrorists "If you turn yourselves in, it will be better than killing yourself and others." Your incentive to surrender is that you get a trial. If you don't surrender you get killed on the spot. But you've been arguing that life in prison is more punishment then the death penalty, so without the death penalty shouldn't the bad guys have LESS incentive to surrender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 09:24 PM) It's still early in the information-gathering process, but I don't see this being anything close to a month-long trial. It would be an extremely long trial. Simple murder trials can take multiple weeks; here, you have multiple crime scenes, multiple charges, etc. Not to mention how long jury selection would take, which be a long ass process. Edited April 20, 2013 by maggsmaggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 09:31 PM) Your incentive to surrender is that you get a trial. If you don't surrender you get killed on the spot. But you've been arguing that life in prison is more punishment then the death penalty, so without the death penalty shouldn't the bad guys have LESS incentive to surrender? No because if they are considering surrender they are implicitly valuing life over death. Many terrorists dont care about living, so they are willing to die regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 f*** the barbaric death penalty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I may be a sheep that got lost, but I actually hope Hell exists so they can both burn there for f***ing eternity. Asshole f***face coward pieces of s***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 09:53 PM) f*** the barbaric death penalty I'd argue keeping a 19 year old in a federal max prison, most likely 23 hours a day in a jail cell, for the next 50-60 years is MORE barbaric. That said, f*** this guy. Hang him in a public square. He's not worth the cost of keeping alive in jail for the rest of his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 10:09 PM) I'd argue keeping a 19 year old in a federal max prison, most likely 23 hours a day in a jail cell, for the next 50-60 years is MORE barbaric. That said, f*** this guy. Hang him in a public square. He's not worth the cost of keeping alive in jail for the rest of his life. Yeah that's also barbaric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 10:12 PM) Yeah that's also barbaric. But you know whats even MORE barbaric? Setting off bombs in a crowd and mutilating/killing hundreds of innocent people, and then assassinating an innocent cop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 10:16 PM) But you know whats even MORE barbaric? Setting off bombs in a crowd and mutilating/killing hundreds of innocent people, and then assassinating an innocent cop. Yep! I prefer the moral high ground, though. Having the state kill this person on my behalf doesn't actually do anything for me. Nor does subjecting him to 60 years of solitary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 09:28 PM) Right the govt has to protect its people. And you cant have terrorist propaganda that says "Even if you surrender they will kill you, so you should suicide bomb, you should never surrender." We want them to surrender peacefully, we have to give some sort of incentive to that. We need to be able to tell terrorists "If you turn yourselves in, it will be better than killing yourself and others." These moments are when we should let our justice system WORK. Show the world that we handle things civilly, methodically, and we don't let our emotions cause the rules to change. The rules outlaw blowing people up and we don't need to bend them to enforce them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 10:23 PM) Yep! I prefer the moral high ground, though. Having the state kill this person on my behalf doesn't actually do anything for me. Nor does subjecting him to 60 years of solitary. I say put him in general population. I see romance in his future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 From the evidence I have seen, it seems like the older brother was the brains & motive behind the operation and he convinced his little brother to join the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 10:53 PM) From the evidence I have seen, it seems like the older brother was the brains & motive behind the operation and he convinced his little brother to join the cause. There's very little evidence, but from what we have that seems likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 10:47 PM) I say put him in general population. I see romance in his future. a friend of mine suggested putting him in a yankee jersey in the middle of fenway park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted April 20, 2013 Author Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 08:48 PM) Maximum penalty is life sentence solitary confinement. Its objectively provable that solitary confinement is terrible. There is a possibility that dieing is great. I dont want to take that risk. LOL dying is great? I don't think life in hell is great. QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 09:28 PM) Right the govt has to protect its people. And you cant have terrorist propaganda that says "Even if you surrender they will kill you, so you should suicide bomb, you should never surrender." We want them to surrender peacefully, we have to give some sort of incentive to that. We need to be able to tell terrorists "If you turn yourselves in, it will be better than killing yourself and others." We're not a country that should bargain with terrorists. You're already dealing with crazy people as it is. You get a justice system to play it out if you surrender. You can just as easily argue that the death penalty could help be a bigger deterrent beforehand. Don't want to die? OK, don't kill innocent people. Anyway, he doesn't deserve to take another breath. It's your opinion that solidarity is worse, many people don't share that opinion with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (Reddy @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 08:23 PM) lol, with every post this guy is really out to convinve the world just what a POS he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 19, 2013 -> 09:28 PM) Right the govt has to protect its people. And you cant have terrorist propaganda that says "Even if you surrender they will kill you, so you should suicide bomb, you should never surrender." We want them to surrender peacefully, we have to give some sort of incentive to that. We need to be able to tell terrorists "If you turn yourselves in, it will be better than killing yourself and others." But you just said that life imprisonment is a death sentence and worse than death row. So, what's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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