4/18 Games

[southsider2k5]

The Sox aren't demoting their number on draft pick after two weeks.

[oldsox]

And I sometimes also wish you would make more relevant comparisons. Last time you compared Richar Shelby and Harris to Micah Johnson, now you are comparing Santiago and Quintana's situation to Sanchez? Really?

 

Let's have sanity check here, we all know Santiago became a whole new pitcher after he learned the screwball, and pitcher developments are not the same as hitter developments. And why are you even trying to construe a misleading analyze for Quintana's minor league track? First of all he did not spend 6 years in A ball or below. He only pitched 5 innings as a 17 year old and was suspended his entire age 18. So if you want to count it, that's 3 years in Rk - A+, which is totally typical for a pitcher. He's also been consistently good those 3 years, but scouts didn't view him as a big time prospect because he lacked the "stuff", which he still doesn't have, but he pitches with the poise of a veteran, which is giving him the edge so far. Again, totally irrelevant to a batter's development.

 

Also, why are you comparing Viceido and Gordon's position switch to Sanchez's? For the record, Sanchez never officially switched positions, he keeps bouncing around between SS and 2B, while Viceido and Gordon's switch were long term changes. His situation is more like the Tyler Kuhn situation, where he can fill multiple positions, but not spectacular at a specific one. If the organization doesn't even have a defined position for him, I wouldn't trust your "sources" and label as a plus defender just yet.

 

It's very simple, if the organization feels he's a plus defender, he will be playing one position full time. If he's blocked by someone at his current position or another position opens up, then they will have him permanently switch over to the other position. That was how the Viceido/Beckham situations were handled.

 

Really, none of the comparisons you offered really applies to Carlos Sanchez.

What happened to Tyler Kuhn?

[southsider2k5]

What happened to Tyler Kuhn?

 

He wasn't good enough to make it.

[NorthSideSox72]

And I sometimes also wish you would make more relevant comparisons. Last time you compared Richar Shelby and Harris to Micah Johnson, now you are comparing Santiago and Quintana's situation to Sanchez? Really?

 

Let's have sanity check here, we all know Santiago became a whole new pitcher after he learned the screwball, and pitcher developments are not the same as hitter developments. And why are you even trying to construe a misleading analyze for Quintana's minor league track? First of all he did not spend 6 years in A ball or below. He only pitched 5 innings as a 17 year old and was suspended his entire age 18. So if you want to count it, that's 3 years in Rk - A+, which is totally typical for a pitcher. He's also been consistently good those 3 years, but scouts didn't view him as a big time prospect because he lacked the "stuff", which he still doesn't have, but he pitches with the poise of a veteran, which is giving him the edge so far. Again, totally irrelevant to a batter's development.

 

Also, why are you comparing Viceido and Gordon's position switch to Sanchez's? For the record, Sanchez never officially switched positions, he keeps bouncing around between SS and 2B, while Viceido and Gordon's switch were long term changes. His situation is more like the Tyler Kuhn situation, where he can fill multiple positions, but not spectacular at a specific one. If the organization doesn't even have a defined position for him, I wouldn't trust your "sources" and label as a plus defender just yet.

 

It's very simple, if the organization feels he's a plus defender, he will be playing one position full time. If he's blocked by someone at his current position or another position opens up, then they will have him permanently switch over to the other position. That was how the Viceido/Beckham situations were handled.

 

Really, none of the comparisons you offered really applies to Carlos Sanchez.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but... for one thing, Tyler Kuhn? Not really a great comp either. Different hitting tools and styles, and Kuhn was always considered below average (but acceptable) at all those positions. He was specifically known as a bat, and really just a bat. There was even a joke among Sox front office folks, labeling players with a good bat and no position as "he's Tyler Kuhn".

 

Also, the reason they are moving him between 2nd and SS seems pretty clear to me - they want him to be ready for both in the majors. There is a good chance that one of Alexei or Gordon are elsewhere after this season (or maybe Sanchez), so they want Sanchez to be ready for either.

 

[witesoxfan]

I feel like what's being lost here is that this kid is 21 years old in AAA. First and foremost, it's a big jump, but even if he doesn't fill out a lot, he's still going to fill out a bit as he ages. Tyler Kuhn and Chriz Getz were 24 and 23 respectively when they had their crazy good seasons. There's no reason to assume some power won't develop in his game.

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but... for one thing, Tyler Kuhn? Not really a great comp either. Different hitting tools and styles, and Kuhn was always considered below average (but acceptable) at all those positions. He was specifically known as a bat, and really just a bat. There was even a joke among Sox front office folks, labeling players with a good bat and no position as "he's Tyler Kuhn".

 

Also, the reason they are moving him between 2nd and SS seems pretty clear to me - they want him to be ready for both in the majors. There is a good chance that one of Alexei or Gordon are elsewhere after this season (or maybe Sanchez), so they want Sanchez to be ready for either.

 

Hence I said he can fill multiple positions, but not spectacular in a particular one. The sox saw him as a utility guy at the majors more than anything. I don't recall his defense being terrible at any positions. I am not comparing Sanchez to Kuhn outside of the fact that the Sox don't have a definite position for them.

 

But I do say that the Sox want Sanchez to be able to play multiple positions, and where he ultimately ends up is determine by our need versus if he's better at SS or 2B

Edited April 19, 2013 by thxfrthmmrs

[witesoxfan]

I have to imagine his immediate future is at 2B. If he proves he can play SS too, then he can possibly be a replacement for Alexei down the road.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I feel like what's being lost here is that this kid is 21 years old in AAA. First and foremost, it's a big jump, but even if he doesn't fill out a lot, he's still going to fill out a bit as he ages. Tyler Kuhn and Chriz Getz were 24 and 23 respectively when they had their crazy good seasons. There's no reason to assume some power won't develop in his game.

 

He's actually still 20 and I believe is the youngest player in AAA. He has a lot of time.

[witesoxfan]

He's actually still 20 and I believe is the youngest player in AAA. He has a lot of time.

 

Yeah I knew that, but it'll be considered his age 21 season because he turns less than halfway throught he year (but barely - June 29th).

 

If he even becomes a .300/.350/.400 type hitter, that is very valuable at 2B.

[Cali]

Beck/Johnson is a nice combo in the farm system.

 

Next Spring should be interesting cause I could see Quintana, Santiago, Beck, and Johnson all competing for slots 4-5 of the rotation (assuming the health of the 3 guys signed for next year that will definitely be in the rotation in Peavy, Danks, and Sale)

 

Not a bad problem.

[Chicago White Sox]

Hence I said he can fill multiple positions, but not spectacular in a particular one. The sox saw him as a utility guy at the majors more than anything. I don't recall his defense being terrible at any positions. I am not comparing Sanchez to Kuhn outside of the fact that the Sox don't have a definite position for them.

 

But I do say that the Sox want Sanchez to be able to play multiple positions, and where he ultimately ends up is determine by our need versus if he's better at SS or 2B

The scouting reports I've read list Sanchez as a plus defensive player at 2B and an average defensive player at SS. He's nothing like Tyler Kuhn defensively.

 

However, given his lack of power, he projects much better offensively at SS at the moment. I'm guessing they want to wait and see how he develops with the bat and how teams needs open up in the future before ultimately deciding which position he should be at long-term. In the meantime, you play him at both positions and increase his defensive flexibility.

[witesoxfan]

The scouting reports I've read list Sanchez as a plus defensive player at 2B and an average defensive player at SS. He's nothing like Tyler Kuhn defensively.

 

However, given his lack of power, he projects much better offensively at SS at the moment. I'm guessing they want to wait and see how he develops with the bat and how teams needs open up in the future before ultimately deciding which position he should be at long-term. In the meantime, you play him at both positions and increase his defensive flexibility.

 

I wouldn't say much better. You would prefer him to play SS, but you prefer anybody to play SS. It sounds like his max value is at 2B.

 

Besides, the difference between the average 2B (.701 OPS) and SS (.688 OPS) is negligible.

 

(numbers from 2012)

Edited April 19, 2013 by witesoxfan

[thxfrthmmrs]

Ok I will admit I might be a bit harsh on his defense, I saw him as a average defender right now with potential to be above average.

 

But you can't overlook his lack of power, and even BP rated his power at 20/20. Also from BP, while he has good raw speed, he doesn't have the instinct to be an effective base stealer. They see him as a fringe regular at 2B and a very nice utility guy. All these these fit right in with my initial post about Sanchez.

 

Some of you can sit here and wish that he suddenly discovers more power, but it's highly unlikely at this point, as he hasn't even demonstrate any gap power at age 20/21. We've been down this road with young, good contact hitters before, Jon Gilmore, and right now Rangel Ravelo. It's highly unlikely.

[witesoxfan]

Well, Marc Hulet's a fan anyways

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/fangraphs-t...00-prospects-2/

 

64. Carlos Sanchez, 2B, Chicago (AL): Probably the second most shocking ranking on list, I’m going against the field here with Sanchez — whom I doubt made any other Top 100 lists. The second baseman impresses me with his baseball skills, as well as the way he carries himself on the field. I think he gets a bit of a raw deal because he’s in the White Sox underrated system and because he doesn’t have loud tools. I truly think he’ll exceed expectations when given the opportunity.

[NorthSideSox72]

Ok I will admit I might be a bit harsh on his defense, I saw him as a average defender right now with potential to be above average.

 

But you can't overlook his lack of power, and even BP rated his power at 20/20. Also from BP, while he has good raw speed, he doesn't have the instinct to be an effective base stealer. They see him as a fringe regular at 2B and a very nice utility guy. All these these fit right in with my initial post about Sanchez.

 

Some of you can sit here and wish that he suddenly discovers more power, but it's highly unlikely at this point, as he hasn't even demonstrate any gap power at age 20/21. We've been down this road with young, good contact hitters before, Jon Gilmore, and right now Rangel Ravelo. It's highly unlikely.

No gap power? He had 25 doubles and 7 triples last year in 500-ish AB's. That's not huge numbers, but it is not "no gap power" either.

 

Jon Gilmore? He washed out at lower levels and much higher age, and played 3B. Ravelo is more similar in some ways, but is still at a much lower level, and was a 3B who is now a 1B. Not great examples, and Ravelo is still a question mark.

 

Sanchez may or may not find that power. We'll see.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I wouldn't say much better. You would prefer him to play SS, but you prefer anybody to play SS. It sounds like his max value is at 2B.

 

Besides, the difference between the average 2B (.701 OPS) and SS (.688 OPS) is negligible.

 

(numbers from 2012)

Fair enough. Sometimes you can get away with an offensive-oriented 2B, but obviously that trend is starting to fade away based on the numbers you show.

 

As for Sanchez, even if he doesn't have HR power, he still profiles well as 2 hole hitter with his skillset. He just needs to hit enough doubles and triples to get his slugging percentage to a somewhat respectable level. Given his age and his production last year, I don't think that will be an issue.

[thxfrthmmrs]

No gap power? He had 25 doubles and 7 triples last year in 500-ish AB's. That's not huge numbers, but it is not "no gap power" either.

 

Jon Gilmore? He washed out at lower levels and much higher age, and played 3B. Ravelo is more similar in some ways, but is still at a much lower level, and was a 3B who is now a 1B. Not great examples, and Ravelo is still a question mark.

 

Sanchez may or may not find that power. We'll see.

 

 

25 Doubles and 7 Triples in 500+ ABs, put that in perspective, that is .080 ISO+, which is the highest of his career.

 

Again put that in perspective as well, Keenyn Walker, notorious singles hitter, posted at .110 ISO+ last year. While you can bash about Gilmore, once upon a time, we were praying for his power to arrived, he did put up .100 ISO+ at age 20, but never found his power. Not to mention some of Sanchez XBHs can be attributed to speed as well.

 

Like I said, we've been down this road before with contact hitters, I don't have faith in him even becoming a doubles machine. Take it from BP, they rated his power 20/20 at the end of last year.

Edited April 19, 2013 by thxfrthmmrs

[ChiSox_Sonix]

25 Doubles and 7 Triples in 500+ ABs, put that in perspective, that is .080 ISO+, which is the highest of his career.

 

Again put that in perspective as well, Keenyn Walker, notorious singles hitter, posted at .110 ISO+ last year. While you can bash about Gilmore, once upon a time, we were praying for his power to arrived, he did put up .100 ISO+ at age 20, but never found his power. Not to mention some of Sanchez XBHs can be attributed to speed as well.

 

Like I said, we've been down this road before with contact hitters, I don't have faith in him even becoming a doubles machine. Take it from BP, they rated his power 20/20 at the end of last year.

 

LOL at the bolded.

 

He was 19/20 years old...