witesoxfan Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 02:06 PM) The problem is teams don't want to give up anything in the top 8-10 anymore...the real conundrum is, what do you do then? Play chicken. You aren't going to get top 10 prospects for Konerko or Floyd, and if the current pace continues, you absolutely want to get rid of them for the best offer you can get, but you certainly can get top 10 prospects for Peavy and Rios (hell, you can get the #4 prospect in the game for a pitcher of Peavy's quality - the Royals certainly had no problem giving him up plus 3 others). Leverage teams against each other, get the best offer you can, and stay patient. They can't wait until the All-Star break to start shopping players because that won't be enough time. And when teams start making the offers, you can't be picky, but you can't act too quickly - it has to be just right. If you don't get the offer you want, are you really that upset that you've kept Peavy and Rios for next season? In this horses*** division, it takes 3 guys having break out years to win. The rotation can still be really good next year, some solid, cheap, short-term signings could result in the team hitting better, and they could compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 12:12 PM) Play chicken. You aren't going to get top 10 prospects for Konerko or Floyd, and if the current pace continues, you absolutely want to get rid of them for the best offer you can get, but you certainly can get top 10 prospects for Peavy and Rios (hell, you can get the #4 prospect in the game for a pitcher of Peavy's quality - the Royals certainly had no problem giving him up plus 3 others). Leverage teams against each other, get the best offer you can, and stay patient. They can't wait until the All-Star break to start shopping players because that won't be enough time. And when teams start making the offers, you can't be picky, but you can't act too quickly - it has to be just right. If you don't get the offer you want, are you really that upset that you've kept Peavy and Rios for next season? In this horses*** division, it takes 3 guys having break out years to win. The rotation can still be really good next year, some solid, cheap, short-term signings could result in the team hitting better, and they could compete. I think this is what happened with John Danks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 12:07 PM) I think our FO is always going to be a bit sensitive to this because of the White Flag trade. And that's a s***ty way to to business. Be afraid of a deal that is so old now, it could get it's learners permit. You'd think 2005 would have eliminated any issues with that, cause, scoreboard. But... White Sox fans.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 12:13 PM) I think this is what happened with John Danks... Except, they should have just let him walk the next yeah instead of signing him to a (as of right now) AWFUL contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 There's no reason to target a team's 1-2 prospects if it is a very good organization. Why pay the highest price for talent? Seems stupid. These lists are mostly garbage anyway. You have your scouts target players at positions of need at every level above A ball in every organization you would trade with and then have those guys focus on the ones they like, especially if those players play for teams that seem to possess an excess at the position you need and a deficiency in the area you would trade from. At no point do prospect lists ever matter. I trust the Sox ability to place bets. When it comes time to put their money where their mouth is on a prospect or unproven MLB-ready player, I like their chances, assuming they have done their research. Kenny didn't seem to know much about Nestor Molina when he acquired him, and that's a problem, you can't just hire a new guy and let him pick the players you deal for without doing the leg work, but assuming Kenny, Hahn, Paddy, and Bell are all on the same page re: a prospect or unproven MLB-ready young guy, I believe in their ability to acquire new core pieces. And as always I would much rather target several highly talented players who have fallen out of favor than go "fan style" and gush over some prospect who is just about as physically talented as the other guy but three times as expensive. We shouldn't be looking for Profars, we should be looking for more Gillaspies. Find the next Uribe to replace Alexei. Let's get a legitimate CF because DeAza shouldn't be in the long-term plans. Let's forget about our own OF prospects with holes in their games, make them force their way into the picture, and look to acquire RSHP and skill position players. Budget signings are good too. But don't go after anyone just because he's out there -- I've seen Casper Wells mentions on this board, but obviously the Sox don't feel he's a MLB player because they haven't traded for him -- just go after talent that you believe in and can commit to, because we're getting to that point where we'll be sending out scouts with the intention being to sell, not buy, and the players we get will need to have ABs and IP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (Cali @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 12:18 PM) Except, they should have just let him walk the next yeah instead of signing him to a (as of right now) AWFUL contract. Again, this is really easy to say now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 12:20 PM) Again, this is really easy to say now... Well, I said it then too haha I slammed KW and thought he should have traded him for whatever the best offer was. Lower his price just a little and take the best deal. Obviously the Sox competed in 2012, but with zero help from Danks (even pre-DL he was pretty useless) so it wouldn't have made a difference if they traded him and just let him play out his contract year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (Cali @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 02:15 PM) And that's a s***ty way to to business. Be afraid of a deal that is so old now, it could get it's learners permit. You'd think 2005 would have eliminated any issues with that, cause, scoreboard. But... White Sox fans.... Yet it got brought up right away after Edwin Jackson got traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (Cali @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 02:18 PM) Except, they should have just let him walk the next yeah instead of signing him to a (as of right now) AWFUL contract. That is unless he pitches like John Danks, than that deal becomes a bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (Cali @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 02:15 PM) And that's a s***ty way to to business. Be afraid of a deal that is so old now, it could get it's learners permit. QUOTE (Cali @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 02:18 PM) Except, they should have just let him walk the next yeah instead of signing him to a (as of right now) AWFUL contract. Another s***ty way of doing business is to avoid good players and avoid long-term contracts just because one day someone **might** get hurt. You can't judge in hindsight. The logic was sound when Danks was extended, just like the logic was sound when we signed Dunn. Neither of those deals worked out, but the thought process was there and that is all that matters. Expecting an organization to never make mistakes is pretty stupid because the only thing it sets you up for is failure and disappointment no matter who is in charge of what organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 03:24 PM) That is unless he pitches like John Danks, than that deal becomes a bargain. (Or it's partially insured). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 12:53 PM) But you will sit through 60 win seasons and continue to buy tickets? If that is the case, you are the exception, not the rule. I don't buy tickets now though. The team is not interesting. I will go out a couple more times this year. I want to catch the Angels at least once, and get some food at the park. I will get UD tix on stub hub. I would go out and watch a building team of youngsters instead of what is currently constructed but i am definitely the exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 02:13 PM) I think this is what happened with John Danks... To some extent, yes. I did want them to trade Danks for what they could get, but I'm not upset about that extension because it was valued properly. I also recall thinking Williams was too picky when it came to trading Danks too, though I don't recall exactly the offers being presented or what Williams was asking for. That goes back to what I was saying earlier too - don't take the first offer you like, but don't hold out for a king's ransom. If it's a good, fair offer, take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 03:04 PM) To some extent, yes. I did want them to trade Danks for what they could get, but I'm not upset about that extension because it was valued properly. I also recall thinking Williams was too picky when it came to trading Danks too, though I don't recall exactly the offers being presented or what Williams was asking for. That goes back to what I was saying earlier too - don't take the first offer you like, but don't hold out for a king's ransom. If it's a good, fair offer, take it. I don't recall ever hearing what offers for Danks looked like. Is that information out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 23, 2013 -> 01:05 PM) I don't recall ever hearing what offers for Danks looked like. Is that information out there? Yeah I don't think it was ever revealed, but I would love to have know what the exact offers were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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