Balta1701 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 16, 2013 -> 11:27 AM) People are never going to stop driving drunk. People got drunk during prohibition. Acting like any laws put in place will stop the repeat offenders is just ignorant. I don't think the solution is punishment. I think that if there is a solution it's to be proactive. Governments and businesses make a fortune on people drinking in this country. They ought to be able/willing to establish and provide services for people to get home. IMO, it would actually help their business; I could have an extra drink or two if I had a safe way to get home provided by the business that didn't involve me struggling to figure out where my car was the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 16, 2013 -> 09:04 AM) That's completely moronic. People being "too drunk to realize they are too drunk to drive" is completely asinine. When you've had ten beers, you know you shouldn't be driving. When you're hammered, you know it. You still make that choice. I've done it. Not proud of it, but I've done it. I've also realized the entire time I was driving that if I were to get pulled over I'd be completely f***ed. I don't do it anymore, but I have. And I also knew what I was doing was wrong. EDIT AND STUPID Are you really trying to argue that drinking doesn't effect your decision making? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 16, 2013 -> 08:36 AM) Even if it does, so long as you do it at a place where you intend to stay a while, it's perfectly safe. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:34 AM) Why not? Automakers are putting all kinds of stuff in cars...why can't they do this? It's easy to do to the cars, but it's the legal battle that would be tough. Why should somebody who's never had a drink in their life have to blow into a device everytime they want to start their car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:34 AM) Why not? Automakers are putting all kinds of stuff in cars...why can't they do this? I'm more thinking about old cars. It can be done in all new cars from this date forward, but it could take 20+ years to get all the old cars off the road. It would be tough to make every single person bring in every single car in to get it installed. People with drinking problems would search for and pay money for cars without the device too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ May 16, 2013 -> 08:39 AM) It's easy to do to the cars, but it's the legal battle that would be tough. Why should somebody who's never had a drink in their life have to blow into a device everytime they want to start their car? Because driving is a privilege, not a right. For the same reason they have to take driver's ed, and renew their license all the time, and obey traffic laws in general... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:34 AM) Why not? Automakers are putting all kinds of stuff in cars...why can't they do this? How does this prevent someone else from blowing for the driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 16, 2013 -> 08:40 AM) I'm more thinking about old cars. It can be done in all new cars from this date forward, but it could take 20+ years to get all the old cars off the road. It would be tough to make every single person bring in every single car in to get it installed. People with drinking problems would search for and pay money for cars without the device too. Hah...this is true! Maybe they could make some kind of aftermarket device that is required... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:37 AM) I don't think the solution is punishment. I think that if there is a solution it's to be proactive. Governments and businesses make a fortune on people drinking in this country. They ought to be able/willing to establish and provide services for people to get home. IMO, it would actually help their business; I could have an extra drink or two if I had a safe way to get home provided by the business that didn't involve me struggling to figure out where my car was the next day. Do the businesses also provide transportation TO their locations? It's simply an unrealistic idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 16, 2013 -> 08:41 AM) How does this prevent someone else from blowing for the driver? I mentioned this earlier...it certainly isn't foolproof...but maybe science has a solution for this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 16, 2013 -> 08:41 AM) Do the businesses also provide transportation TO their locations? It's simply an unrealistic idea. It's a lot more realistic than expecting people to not drink and drive because of fines and suspensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:38 AM) ? If you use alcohol properly - i.e., don't drink until you're black out drunk and then drive - and you do so in an appropriate place, there's no danger even if you become intoxicated. It's a safe product to use. I was intoxicated last night in my home watching the Bulls/Hawks and I didn't kill anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:41 AM) Hah...this is true! Maybe they could make some kind of aftermarket device that is required... They already make them. People with multiple DUIs have to pay to have them installed in their cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 16, 2013 -> 08:43 AM) If you use alcohol properly - i.e., don't drink until you're black out drunk and then drive - and you do so in an appropriate place, there's no danger even if you become intoxicated. It's a safe product to use. I was intoxicated last night in my home watching the Bulls/Hawks and I didn't kill anyone. I can't believe you're an attorney and you would make this argument... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:44 AM) I can't believe you're an attorney and you would make this argument... I'm just saying, I hate when people talk about alcohol like it's this uncontrollable product that's inherently dangerous. Individuals have all the power over alcohol. YOU choose where you drink, YOU choose how much you drink, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:41 AM) Do the businesses also provide transportation TO their locations? It's simply an unrealistic idea. QUOTE (iamshack @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:42 AM) It's a lot more realistic than expecting people to not drink and drive because of fines and suspensions. In my area, which is in the middle of nowhere, we have a business called the Road Crew. It's sponsored by the local taverns and provides rides for people to and from the bar within a 30 mile radius for a minimal fee. $5 gets you a one way ride, $8 to use the service all night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:41 AM) Hah...this is true! Maybe they could make some kind of aftermarket device that is required... You could make it required, but the enforcement is the issue. That's hundreds of millions of cars out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 16, 2013 -> 11:34 AM) Why not? Automakers are putting all kinds of stuff in cars...why can't they do this? One downside is that making these things work doesn't appear to be cheap. One brief check finds that the cost of operating one of those ignition interlocks for 1 year is on the order of $1000-$2000. Maybe they'd get cheaper if they were mandated on every vehicle, but there are a variety of safety devices we don't mandate in vehicles because of costs on that level. For 250 million cars, that's a cost of a couple hundred billion dollars. The costs associated with DUI per year are on the order of $100 billion from this estimate...so maybe it works out, but either way, that's not a cheap step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 16, 2013 -> 08:46 AM) I'm just saying, I hate when people talk about alcohol like it's this uncontrollable product that's inherently dangerous. Individuals have all the power over alcohol. YOU choose where you drink, YOU choose how much you drink, etc. Well, I know how stubborn you are, so I won't invest too much time trying to convince you, but you know full-well that is nonsense. You should go work for the tobacco companies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:46 AM) I'm just saying, I hate when people talk about alcohol like it's this uncontrollable product that's inherently dangerous. Individuals have all the power over alcohol. YOU choose where you drink, YOU choose how much you drink, etc. Yea let's just pretend like addiction isn't a real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2013 -> 08:49 AM) One downside is that making these things work doesn't appear to be cheap. One brief check finds that the cost of operating one of those ignition interlocks for 1 year is on the order of $1000-$2000. Maybe they'd get cheaper if they were mandated on every vehicle, but there are a variety of safety devices we don't mandate in vehicles because of costs on that level. For 250 million cars, that's a cost of a couple hundred billion dollars. The costs associated with DUI per year are on the order of $100 billion from this estimate...so maybe it works out, but either way, that's not a cheap step. Well, at the very least, you could make anyone who's ever had a dui violation use one for the rest of their life...I believe that is a better solution than making it difficult for them to be a productive citizen by fining them and suspending their license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:51 AM) Yea let's just pretend like addiction isn't a real thing. Be addicted all you want, do it in your own home and don't drive. Edit: and let's be real here, the true addicts are a very small percent of the DUI crowd we're talking about here. Most DUI's are normal people that make a dumb decision, a decision that is 100% avoidable. Edited May 16, 2013 by Jenksismybitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:53 AM) Be addicted all you want, do it in your own home and don't drive. You stated people have all the control over alcohol, which coming from a family with a history of alcoholism, pisses me the f*** off because it's so untrue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:57 AM) You stated people have all the control over alcohol, which coming from a family with a history of alcoholism, pisses me the f*** off because it's so untrue. Are alcoholics forced to drive after they drink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 16, 2013 -> 10:59 AM) Are alcoholics forced to drive after they drink? No, that's not the point I'm arguing, but you just keep on ignoring the fact that you made one of the stupidest statements I've ever read in that people have all the control over alcohol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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