Leo "The Lip" Durocher would be turning in his grave...

[caulfield12]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,0,802160.story

 

 

 

"You can't just turn over your roster and put new people in there," manager Robin Ventura said Sunday after the Sox let a ninth-inning lead slip away in a 6-5, 10-inning loss to the Royals. "It's just one of those, you got to fix it, keep harping on it."

 

"I don't know how to explain it, but we haven't been (playing) to our potential," right fielder Alex Rios said after Alex Gordon's drive sailed over his head to the warning track for the game-winning hit with two outs in the 10th off reliever Brian Omogrosso.

 

"Every time we come here, these guys give us a hard time," Rios said. "But it is tough when you've got the lead and lose games like this. These are the kind of games that will hurt you at the end." YOU THINK?

 

Ventura maintained there is accountability, and Reed accepted full blame the walks that set up Billy Butler's two-run, game-tying double, which came on a hanging slider on a 3-2 count.

 

"It's just sloppy," Ventura said of the overall play. "For me, it's unacceptable stuff. It's simple stuff we've worked on over and over again, so you stay on it."

 

 

Not exactly the most convincing, heartfelt statements...I know it's Ventura's style to be calm and laid-back in the face of nearly everything that occurs around him, but you just wonder how effective that method can be over the long-term?

 

 

 

[greg775]

Reed was due for a bad outing unfortunately. The hex on the Sox continues. Anytime you are up two runs in the ninth, the opposing team should be pretty much dead.

[southsider2k5]

FAN ANGRY! DEMAND SACRIFICE@

[Brian]

Reed was due for a bad outing unfortunately. The hex on the Sox continues. Anytime you are up two runs in the ninth, the opposing team should be pretty much dead.

 

It was just a matter of time with the way he was putting guys on base.

[Balta1701]

I'll take "Threads where you can tell who started it just by the title" for $800, Alex.

 

 

 

It's like if a thread appeared talking about the geology showing up in a star trek movie.

[cabiness42]

It was just a matter of time with the way he was putting guys on base.

 

Before yesterday Reed had allowed 14 baserunners in 13 innings.

 

Our team is the absolute worst in the league at hitting, but let's spend time criticizing the closer with the 1.08 WHIP.

 

[southsider2k5]

Before yesterday Reed had allowed 14 baserunners in 13 innings.

 

Our team is the absolute worst in the league at hitting, but let's spend time criticizing the closer with the 1.08 WHIP.

 

Great post.

[Dick Allen]

And just because Robin is calm and collected with the media, how does everyone know he never gets on players? I know when he was playing, he ripped Frank Thomas a new one when he was out of line.

 

The White Sox take infield and outfield more than any other MLB team. The blaming him for guys missing cutoffs is beyond hysterical. What is he supposed to do?

 

People act like the players are 8 year olds and the manager is one of the dads like a little league team. Get real. We are dealing with grown ups here. Throwing temper tantrums doesn't usually work all that well. Once in a while to make a point, maybe. If your manager at work yells at you all the time, does that make you a better employee?

Edited May 6, 2013 by Dick Allen

[pettie4sox]

Reed loves to play with fire and he got burned. He needs to learn to let them hit their way on. These are fundamentals.

[elrockinMT]

Before yesterday Reed had allowed 14 baserunners in 13 innings.

 

Our team is the absolute worst in the league at hitting, but let's spend time criticizing the closer with the 1.08 WHIP.

 

 

I would like to point out that I made this observation before. You can't keep putting runners on especially by the walk and not expect to have it bite you in the behind at some point. Now saying that where is my love for criticizing the team? Reading the comments of Ventura et al just shows you the team knows they are not playing the way they should. There constant post of blowing up the team, this team sucks and let's blame I(you insert name(s) here... isn't doing anything but alienating others. You play with who you have injuries and all. Ventura is right you can't bring in 25 new guys every ime you lose a game. Don't make decisions based on frustration or panic. The season is young and at least we aren't in a position like the Angels or Blue Jays or some others. This team can still compete.

[Kyyle23]

I'll take "Threads where you can tell who started it just by the title" for $800, Alex.

 

 

 

It's like if a thread appeared talking about the geology showing up in a star trek movie.

 

LOL

[NorthSideSox72]

Before yesterday Reed had allowed 14 baserunners in 13 innings.

 

Our team is the absolute worst in the league at hitting, but let's spend time criticizing the closer with the 1.08 WHIP.

 

 

Reed loves to play with fire and he got burned. He needs to learn to let them hit their way on. These are fundamentals.

 

[iamshack]

He's been a lot better thus far this year than last...as a whole, I think it is fair to say that Addison never makes it easy...how many times does he get a 1-2-3 inning?

[caulfield12]

I'll take "Threads where you can tell who started it just by the title" for $800, Alex.

 

 

 

It's like if a thread appeared talking about the geology showing up in a star trek movie.

 

 

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1706145/s...pock-clip.jhtml

Hey, you requested geology.

 

 

The main point here, after watching the movie "42," it struck me how baseball has become a distant relative of the game as it used to be played.

 

Harrelson's right, there is very little or no bench jockeying. Players are fraternizing with each other constantly before and after games. There's almost no interaction anymore with the fans, and it's limited to those who are the owners of luxury boxes and diamond suites.

 

Certainly, we're days away from the dreaded "team meeting," which ALMOST ALWAYS works.

 

It's actually a lot like last year, when Ventura's idea of holding Ramirez accountable led directly to a defeat because there was nobody left to play but Olmedo in his place.

 

He simply can't bench, for example, Alexei Ramirez. He can't replace Alex Rios in the line-up either, and there's almost no other options left other than Matt Thornton. He gave Donnie Veal about 15 opportunities.

 

For whatever reason, this team "hit the wall" 2 1/2 months ago and hasn't recovered since.

 

If we don't want to place any blame at the foot of the manager's door, evoking pitchforks and knives coming after Kenny Williams is hardly going to fix the problem either. At a certain point, whatever happened in the past is forgotten and those in charge NOW become accountable. It hasn't happened yet. But it's also why fans are tremendously alienated from this team already.

 

Because if they didn't give up (most agree they just wore down, that it wasn't really a choke and that DET was simply the more talented team and talent almost always wins out eventually in the end)...then they're certainly carrying that negative feeling or vibe directly into the 2013 as if they didn't miss a beat or work on a single thing in Spring Training.

Edited May 6, 2013 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

He's been a lot better thus far this year than last...as a whole, I think it is fair to say that Addison never makes it easy...how many times does he get a 1-2-3 inning?

 

 

He was getting the job done in classic, Bobby Jenks 2009-2010 style.

 

16 consecutive saves in a row isn't something to sneeze at. That said, the majority of them have been far from comfortable.

 

When Sergio was on in the first half of 2011, he dominated opposing hitters, until he had a few big implosions and started to doubt himself as that season came to a close...

 

 

[Dick Allen]

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1706145/s...pock-clip.jhtml

Hey, you requested geology.

 

 

The main point here, after watching the movie "42," it struck me how baseball has become a distant relative of the game as it used to be played.

 

Harrelson's right, there is very little or no bench jockeying. Players are fraternizing with each other constantly before and after games. There's almost no interaction anymore with the fans, and it's limited to those who are the owners of luxury boxes and diamond suites.

 

Certainly, we're days away from the dreaded "team meeting," which ALWAYS almost always works.

 

It's actually like last year, when Ventura's idea of holding Ramirez accountable led directly to a defeat because there was nobody left to play but Olmedo in his place.

 

He simply can't bench, for example, Alexei Ramirez. He can't replace Alex Rios in the line-up either, and there's almost no other options left other than Matt Thornton. He gave Donnie Veal about 15 opportunities.

 

For whatever reason, this team "hit the wall" 2 1/2 months ago and hasn't recovered since.

 

If we don't want to place any blame at the foot of the manager's door, evoking pitchforks and knives coming after Kenny Williams is hardly going to fix the problem either. At a certain point, whatever happened in the past is forgotten and those in charge NOW become accountable. It hasn't happened yet. But it's also why fans are tremendously alienated from this team already.

 

Because if they didn't give up (most agree they just wore down, that it wasn't really a choke and that DET was simply the more talented team and talent almost always wins out eventually in the end)...then they're certainly carrying that negative feeling or vibe directly into the 2013 as if they didn't miss a beat or work on a single thing in Spring Training.

So you have been arguing SOMEONE HAS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE, even starting a who should we blame thread, and then moan when Ventura held Ramirez accountable about showing up late, and complain about Ventura, yet post he doesn't have any options. What's with all the flip flops? You constantly switch to what ever side of the argument appears to be correct that particular moment, and insunuate these problems have been clear for a long time. Pick a side and stay on it. If it turns out you are wrong, so what, it's a message board. Everyone here is constantly wrong. People who get paid millions are often wrong.

[witesoxfan]

What's wrong with guys on teams saying hello to each other before a game? They won't get to do it during the game, and afterwards can be difficult. And it's not like being friends with guys on other teams is a bad thing.

 

If you are going to blame anybody for that, then you need to blame Curt Flood and the rise of free agency.

[caulfield12]

So you have been arguing SOMEONE HAS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE, even starting a who should we blame thread, and then moan when Ventura held Ramirez accountable about showing up late, and complain about Ventura, yet post he doesn't have any options. What's with all the flip flops? You constantly switch to what ever side of the argument appears to be correct that particular moment, and insunuate these problems have been clear for a long time. Pick a side and stay on it. If it turns out you are wrong, so what, it's a message board. Everyone here is constantly wrong. People who get paid millions are often wrong.

 

 

It's indisputable the lack of talent has to be laid at the feet of KW and Reinsdorf for supporting him.

 

Hahn bears some responsibility for overpaying Keppinger, but he didn't have money or talent to go out and trade for Chase Headley, did he?

 

And he did a decent job of finding a decent prospect in Gillaspie who's at least held the season from getting totally out of control...for now.

 

 

That said, many others, and Fathom has been even more prominent, have noticed strategic mismanagement and in-game decision making that's become worrisome and is showing no signs of improvement. We knew there would be a learning curve, that this was "on the job."

 

My biggest fear is that Ventura took the job out of loyalty to JR and his heart is not 100% into it...to many, he still represents that symbol of Sox greatness of the recent past. He was such a popular player, fans won't start to blame him until next year. KW and JR knew exactly what they were doing.

 

It took about five years for the Ozzie Show to wear thin, too, and it might never have if the team wasn't so disappointing that there was no choice but to blame the manager.

 

Maybe Ventura was perfect for the transition period "After Ozzie" but nobody's quite so sure if he is the man to lead this team out of the wilderness, either.

 

 

And Dick, you've followed baseball long enough to know there's more than one person responsible. You defended Greg Walker to the end, and you might have been right about that, but it's impossible to blame this currrent malaise of a situation we're in on just ONE person, not 100%. It's much more nuanced that that, and everyone knows it.

Edited May 6, 2013 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

It's indisputable the lack of talent has to be laid at the feet of KW and Reinsdorf for supporting him.

 

Hahn bears some responsibility for overpaying Keppinger, but he didn't have money or talent to go out and trade for Chase Headley, did he?

 

And he did a decent job of finding a decent prospect in Gillaspie who's at least held the season from getting totally out of control...for now.

 

 

That said, many others, and Fathom has been even more prominent, have noticed strategic mismanagement and in-game decision making that's become worrisome and is showing no signs of improvement. We knew there would be a learning curve, that this was "on the job."

 

My biggest fear is that Ventura took the job out of loyalty to JR and his heart is not 100% into it...to many, he still represents that symbol of Sox greatness of the recent past. He was such a popular player, fans won't start to blame him until next year. KW and JR knew exactly what they were doing.

 

It took about five years for the Ozzie Show to wear thin, too, and it might never have if the team wasn't so disappointing that there was no choice but to blame the manager.

 

Maybe Ventura was perfect for the transition period "After Ozzie" but nobody's quite so sure if he is the man to lead this team out of the wilderness, either.

 

 

And Dick, you've followed baseball long enough to know there's more than one person responsible. You defended Greg Walker to the end, and you might have been right about that, but it's impossible to blame this currrent malaise of a situation we're in on just ONE person, not 100%. It's much more nuanced that that, and everyone knows it.

So Robin Ventura a guy who played about 15 years in the majors knows less about baseball strategy than message board posters, many of whom haven't played organized baseball since they were about 10?

 

If the Sox are horrible this year, you are right, it will fall on a bunch of people. Not one, not 2 or 3. Most of it is on players. If a guy misses a cutoff man, as much as everyone wants to blame the manager, it's not his fault, it's the OF's fault. If a guy strikes out, it's not the hitting coach's fault. I read an article last year about how much parents pay to have their kids play for "elite" traveling clubs in various sports. They get promised the world, with the greatest coaching available, and a lot of parents buy into it. It was written by a former coach. When their kids didn't get to be players that would be 1st round picks or go to college for free, the parents complain. The coach said don't waste your money on these things. There's a 99.9% chance your kid will be an average player. Coaches can't make average talents great ones. It's the same way with professional sports. Sure, coaches can make a difference, but not the difference many people think. Where are Rudy Jaramillo and Leo Mazzone right now?

Edited May 6, 2013 by Dick Allen

[greg775]

It's indisputable the lack of talent has to be laid at the feet of KW and Reinsdorf for supporting him.

 

Hahn bears some responsibility for overpaying Keppinger, but he didn't have money or talent to go out and trade for Chase Headley, did he?

 

And he did a decent job of finding a decent prospect in Gillaspie who's at least held the season from getting totally out of control...for now.

 

 

That said, many others, and Fathom has been even more prominent, have noticed strategic mismanagement and in-game decision making that's become worrisome and is showing no signs of improvement. We knew there would be a learning curve, that this was "on the job."

 

My biggest fear is that Ventura took the job out of loyalty to JR and his heart is not 100% into it...to many, he still represents that symbol of Sox greatness of the recent past. He was such a popular player, fans won't start to blame him until next year. KW and JR knew exactly what they were doing.

 

It took about five years for the Ozzie Show to wear thin, too, and it might never have if the team wasn't so disappointing that there was no choice but to blame the manager.

 

Maybe Ventura was perfect for the transition period "After Ozzie" but nobody's quite so sure if he is the man to lead this team out of the wilderness, either.

 

 

And Dick, you've followed baseball long enough to know there's more than one person responsible. You defended Greg Walker to the end, and you might have been right about that, but it's impossible to blame this currrent malaise of a situation we're in on just ONE person, not 100%. It's much more nuanced that that, and everyone knows it.

 

I think Gillaspie is getting too much credit on this board. Show me some RBIs and runs scored.

[caulfield12]

I think Gillaspie is getting too much credit on this board. Show me some RBIs and runs scored.

 

 

He and Reed (before yesterday's debacle) are the only ones performing above expectations.

 

And Axelrod/Santiago.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think Gillaspie is getting too much credit on this board. Show me some RBIs and runs scored.

Both of those stats are heavily factored by the players surrounding him in the lineup. Don't blame him because the rest of our lineup sucks.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think Gillaspie is getting too much credit on this board. Show me some RBIs and runs scored.

You have to be joking. Or trolling. Gillaspie was acquired during ST in exchange for a lottery ticket A-ball pitcher, and has been one of the best hitters in the lineup. Seriously with this?

 

[Kyyle23]

You have to be joking. Or trolling. Gillaspie was acquired during ST in exchange for a lottery ticket A-ball pitcher, and has been one of the best hitters in the lineup. Seriously with this?

 

a .320 hitter isnt good enough for greg. He needs to have at least 30 RBIs by now. Although that would require the hitters before him getting on base......

[witesoxfan]

a .320 hitter isnt good enough for greg. He needs to have at least 30 RBIs by now. Although that would require the hitters before him getting on base......

 

He's had 84 plate appearances. There's no reason he shouldn't have, AT THE VERY LEAST, 80 home runs.